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Rented apartment sold - Landlord wants me out before lockdown even ends

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135

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    #62
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    But there is no lease. It has expired.

    And?

    It turns into part 4 which they're on.

    Protection in place.


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    #63
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Snipp wrote: »
    What is the notice requirement as per RTA?

    120days...

    Seriously it's not that difficult to read the 1st few posts on the thread.

    The LL is running a business and should follow the rules and so should a tenant by the way I am not pro tenant and screw the LL as I believe everyone should pay their way and I absolutely hate that a person can stay in a property for a year or more without paying a cent. That's wrong.


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    #64
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,018 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    OP have you gone back to your landlord with the 120 day written notice requirement as well as the freeze on evictions during stage 5 lockdown?


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    #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    faceman wrote: »
    Threshold advises gardai are contacted during an illegal eviction.

    They dont and I dont really care what threshold advise. They are neither a state agency or legal authority. they are an advise centre for one side of the coin. If a Garda suggested you contact Dublin bus, would that make it correct? What criminal law do Threshold think is being breached? This is from their site:

    "Contact the Gardaí immediately if someone is using force to remove you or your belongings from your home "
    Graham wrote: »
    Other factors like an illegal eviction?

    Is that a civil matter or criminal?

    Civil just based on that, its a civil contract that is being breached and this is what people dont get. Its breach of contract and breach of civil law. The Gardai have no enforcement powers in tenancy law.

    There MAY BE theft or violence at play, maybe and thats something that can be worked with in regards criminal investigations however that doesnt mean the Gardai are going to kick the door in so you can reenter the property because again, thats not within the remit or powers of AGS.


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    #66
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,362 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    So despite being accurate in my assesment you suggested it was bad advise? thanks for that.

    No, I suggested as per the post, that as the eviction was going to happen, the OP may as well move IF he had somewhere to go that suited him and if that was not the case, DO NOT move out until he had.

    Maybe thats not confontational enough for some people but hey, thats just how I try to be

    My apologies, you seem like quite a non confrontational person tbf

    OP, hope it works out okay for you.


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    #67
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    All the o/p has to do is open a dispute with the RTB. The tenancy continues until the dispute is resolved. It could take years.


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    #68
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,433 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    But there is no lease. It has expired.
    and part 4 takes over...


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    #69
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    They dont and I dont really care what threshold advise. They are neither a state agency or legal authority. they are an advise centre for one side of the coin. If a Garda suggested you contact Dublin bus, would that make it correct? What criminal law do Threshold think is being breached? This is from their site:

    "Contact the Gardaí immediately if someone is using force to remove you or your belongings from your home "



    Civil just based on that, its a civil contract that is being breached and this is what people dont get. Its breach of contract and breach of civil law. The Gardai have no enforcement powers in tenancy law.

    There MAY BE theft or violence at play, maybe and thats something that can be worked with in regards criminal investigations however that doesnt mean the Gardai are going to kick the door in so you can reenter the property because again, thats not within the remit or powers of AGS.

    Sheeeeesh don’t shoot the messenger!


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    #70
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    ELM327 wrote: »
    and part 4 takes over...

    It is provided in the Act that when a fixed term tenancy expires it continues as a month to month tenancy.


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    #71
    Subutai
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭Subutai


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    It is provided in the Act that when a fixed term tenancy expires it continues as a month to month tenancy.

    The RTA makes no distinction between a fixed term or a month to month tenancy when it comes to the security of tenure provisions granted by part 4. Part 4 protections apply to all Tenancies of the requisite six month length, and a fixed term may provide additional security but no less.


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    #72
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    Caranica wrote: »
    OP have you gone back to your landlord with the 120 day written notice requirement as well as the freeze on evictions during stage 5 lockdown?

    Why should the tenant start educating the landlord and potentially hasten his exit. Ll should know his business. Mention the lockdown obviously but don't give advice.


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    #73
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,018 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Lantus wrote: »
    Why should the tenant start educating the landlord and potentially hasten his exit. Ll should know his business. Mention the lockdown obviously but don't give advice.

    Perhaps to give them relative security given the LL apparently wants them out any day now.


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    #74
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    Caranica wrote: »
    Perhaps to give them relative security given the LL apparently wants them out any day now.

    Tenant has security already irrespective of landlords knowledge or lack of.
    They should start looking for somewhere else and keep an emergency pack in car just in case and number for locksmith.


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    #75
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Subutai wrote: »
    The RTA makes no distinction between a fixed term or a month to month tenancy when it comes to the security of tenure provisions granted by part 4.

    I never said it didn't.


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    #76
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Use this situation to your advantage.

    You now have part iV rights. Let the landlord enough rope to hang himself by the bollox. Don't respont and then oppose the eviction at the last minute. If they get angry then move out.
    Then go to a solicitor and the RTB and take him to the cleaners. You'd be looking at €20-30k payout for this sort of thing. And afterselling the house, you know he has the funds to pay out on it.


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    #77
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Use this situation to your advantage.

    You now have part iV rights. Let the landlord enough rope to hang himself by the bollox. Don't respont and then oppose the eviction at the last minute. If they get angry then move out.
    Then go to a solicitor and the RTB and take him to the cleaners. You'd be looking at €20-30k payout for this sort of thing. And afterselling the house, you know he has the funds to pay out on it.

    I hope the op doesn't embark on entrapment. Horrendous behaviour. If the money from the house were to pay for a life saving operation for a child would you be so smug?


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    #78
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,693 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    And afterselling the house, you know he has the funds to pay out on it.

    Unless you know about the LLs debt situation, you have no idea if any cash is left after the bank is repaid.


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    #79
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    tbh i wouldn't have much sympathy for the landlord. They're nailing tennants left right and centre with rack-rents so what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.


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    #80
    Deeec
    Registered Users Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭Deeec


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    tbh i wouldn't have much sympathy for the landlord. They're nailing tennants left right and centre with rack-rents so what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

    Steady on Conor - just because the landlord didnt go to 'landlord University' to learn the landlord rulebook doesnt make him a bad landlord. We havent heard back from the OP so Im guessing they sorted it out among themselves. No need for forceful evictions or legal action.


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    #81
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Well the landlord is apparently clueless of his obligations as a landlord under the RTAs. So yes, he is a bad landlord.

    Would a doctor who is clueless about their code of ethics or regulatory provisions still be a good doctor in your eyes?


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    #82
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,913 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Deeec wrote: »
    Steady on Conor - just because the landlord didnt go to 'landlord University' to learn the landlord rulebook doesnt make him a bad landlord. We havent heard back from the OP so Im guessing they sorted it out among themselves. No need for forceful evictions or legal action.
    If I'm not mistaken, the LL should be aware of their legal rights and how it can be precarious path to follow the correct line. If not, then they are a bad landlord.
    They have also been liaising with their solicitor in terms of selling the property. Surely the fact that there is a tenant in situ would have come up (unless the landlord kept it quiet for some reason). On that basis between the solicitor and landlord, the idea to check the process of notifying a tenant and also the correct notice period would be clear. If not then both LL and solicitor are bad at their respective jobs.
    Furthermore, it has been widely announced that there is an evictions ban in place due to the pandemic. This has been in all media. Again, I'm raising my unibrow at the landlord.
    So, the landlord is either not very good at their job or they are unlawfully trying to shift a sitting tenant - one or the other. My assumption is the latter because it is quite difficult to be the as incompetent as the former!


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    #83
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Lantus wrote: »
    I hope the op doesn't embark on entrapment. Horrendous behaviour. If the money from the house were to pay for a life saving operation for a child would you be so smug?

    Not his concern at all. OP is not here to save all the children of the world.


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    #84
    Deeec
    Registered Users Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭Deeec


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Well the landlord is apparently clueless of his obligations as a landlord under the RTAs. So yes, he is a bad landlord.

    Would a doctor who is clueless about their code of ethics or regulatory provisions still be a good doctor in your eyes?

    No this does not make him a bad landlord.

    Doctors study their profession for years and have continuous CPD. Completely different to being a landlord.


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    #85
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Deeec wrote: »
    No this does not make him a bad landlord.

    Doctors study their profession for years and have continuous CPD. Completely different to being a landlord.

    The moment you decide to be a LL is the moment to start studying. Not learning makes you even worse.


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    #86
    woejus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭woejus


    Lantus wrote: »
    I hope the op doesn't embark on entrapment. Horrendous behaviour. If the money from the house were to pay for a life saving operation for a child would you be so smug?
    :pac:

    a) do you know what entrapment is legally defined as? did the tenant incite the landlord to operate in such a stupid, ill-informed manner?

    b) do you conduct all your financial transactions on the basis that the other party may need the money for a child's life saving operation?


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    #87
    Subutai
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭Subutai


    Deeec wrote: »
    No this does not make him a bad landlord.

    Doctors study their profession for years and have continuous CPD. Completely different to being a landlord.

    Yes, being a doctor is much more difficult. Lots more to learn. That makes it much worse that a landlord would be so ignorant of what is, compared to the vast majority of businesses, fairly simple.


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    #88
    Deeec
    Registered Users Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Subutai wrote: »
    Yes, being a doctor is much more difficult. Lots more to learn. That makes it much worse that a landlord would be so ignorant of what is, compared to the vast majority of businesses, fairly simple.

    This landlord may have provided the tenant with an immaculate property and kept it well maintained for a reasonable rent. You are saying that he is a bad landlord because he did not give the correct number of days notice. He may genuinely not know. Many landlords are elderly, many have inherited properties, many are reluctant landlords - the rules can be very hard to follow. Really do you think hes a bad landlord because he gave the incorrect notice? My guess is if this was pointed out to them they would accept their mistake and allow the tenant to stay for the correct duration.

    Contrary to popular belief not all landlords are selfish and greedy ogres. No wonder there are many property owners out there that would prefer to leave their properties empty than have to deal with the hassles of being a landlord.


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    #89
    Subutai
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭Subutai


    Deeec wrote: »
    This landlord may have provided the tenant with an immaculate property and kept it well maintained for a reasonable rent. You are saying that he is a bad landlord because he did not give the correct number of days notice. He may genuinely not know. Many landlords are elderly, many have inherited properties, many are reluctant landlords - the rules can be very hard to follow. Really do you think hes a bad landlord because he gave the incorrect notice? My guess is if this was pointed out to them they would accept their mistake and allow the tenant to stay for the correct duration.

    Contrary to popular belief not all landlords are selfish and greedy ogres. No wonder there are many property owners out there that would prefer to leave their properties empty than have to deal with the hassles of being a landlord.


    I have said nothing about being selfish or greedy. I am speaking to his competence as a professional when I say he is a bad landlord. That is clearly distinct from personal traits like greed which make one a bad person.

    It is important, in any business one carries out, to understand the laws governing that business. I may run a lovely restaurant that serves excellent and well priced food, but if I do not understand and abide by Health and Safety laws I will find myself shut down by the HSA. I may run an excellent small business fixing cars, but if I do not understand employment law and treat my employees in a way that contravenes that, even by accident, I will find myself in very serious bother.

    Being elderly, an idle heir, or reluctant in your job does not in any way reduce your obligation to be informed about the rules that regulate your business. That is even more important when you are dealing with a person's rights to something as important as their home (or their health, or their livelihood).

    He is a bad landlord by being bad at a basic aspect of the job. Perhaps if educated by the tenant he would simply fix his mistake, in which case he is only slightly bad and the consequences will only be slightly bad. If he does not, then he is very bad, and then that wilful ignorance will see him face very bad consequences.


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    #90
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,913 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Deeec wrote: »
    Really do you think hes a bad landlord because he gave the incorrect notice? My guess is if this was pointed out to them they would accept their mistake and allow the tenant to stay for the correct duration.

    Contrary to popular belief not all landlords are selfish and greedy ogres. No wonder there are many property owners out there that would prefer to leave their properties empty than have to deal with the hassles of being a landlord.
    I'm neither a landlord nor a tenant but I'm familiar with both the law and what has been reported on in news papers recently.
    If someone is purporting to be a landlord then the onus is on them to do so legally. If they don't then they should not be doing it. If they need help, fine, there are resources out there to help them!
    This idea of sympathy for an accidental landlord is total crap. If they choose to become a landlord then they do so by the book. If they are unfamiliar with the book (i.e. the law!) then they get legal advice. If they can't follow the law then they should not be a landlord. It is difficult for genuine landlords to get it right without chancers helping to create a myth of them all being greedy ogres!
    Is it ok for me to open a restaurant whilst completely ignoring the appropriate legislation? Can I be a good restraunteur despite not adhering to food hygiene laws or staff payment laws?


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    #91
    Deeec
    Registered Users Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    I'm neither a landlord nor a tenant but I'm familiar with both the law and what has been reported on in news papers recently.
    If someone is purporting to be a landlord then the onus is on them to do so legally. If they don't then they should not be doing it. If they need help, fine, there are resources out there to help them!
    This idea of sympathy for an accidental landlord is total crap. If they choose to become a landlord then they do so by the book. If they are unfamiliar with the book (i.e. the law!) then they get legal advice. If they can't follow the law then they should not be a landlord. It is difficult for genuine landlords to get it right without chancers helping to create a myth of them all being greedy ogres!
    Is it ok for me to open a restaurant whilst completely ignoring the appropriate legislation? Can I be a good restraunteur despite not adhering to food hygiene laws or staff payment laws?

    I know they should know the regulation but it many industries regulation is not abided and that includes restaurants. Many business's not following covid regs at the moment as an example. Some of the posters on here are advising aggressive action for something that could be an innocent mistake.


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