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Boards unfettered sexism (See Mod Note in first post)
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I was going to agree with Faith that this needs to go to Feedback or higher, but it seems that has been done already.
Interesting that the concerns are around this thread, rather than the concerns that are highlighted therein.
The Brigading thread closed, but the concerns raised here, do need to be tackled.
Mod updated that that this has been raised at admin level.0 -
Joeytheparrot wrote: »I dont think anyone said that was a personal attack. Its mysogyny. I really despair that anyone would smile at a comment like that.
Well I guess I don't take everything seriously. I would consider it a throw away comment. Is it crude? Yes. Would I say it? No. Do I think it needs to be deleted? No. I think it's healthy for debate not to be policed too much when it's not oprlenly hostile.
As for despairing what I find amusing... You can keep despairing and I'll keep to be amused by whatever I want to be amused by. And we will be both happy.0 -
I don't notice it. But if I see something sexist I dont like, just as in real life, I usually tend to say fcuk that for a game of cowboys, immediately back off and ignore. Life is too short to try and correct the views of deranged people. I am sure there are nasty men and women on boards just like there are most places.
That's grand, and I think a lot of us do that really, but I suppose if, disproportionately, women are doing a lot of that - coming across posts that make us back off and ignore - we are effectively kind of ousted. And for a community fora site like boards, we should all be equally entitled to peaceful enjoyment of it.0 -
I was going to agree with Faith that this needs to go to Feedback or higher, but it seems that has been done already.
Interesting that the concerns are around this thread, rather than the concerns that are highlighted therein.
The Brigading thread closed, but the concerns raised here, do need to be tackled.
In my view it's interesting that such apparently serious and wide-spread issues are confined to this forum and not brought up in feedback with admins and mods of the other forums.
The mod post about this forum not being the place for men's opinions and to keep on fighting the good fight makes it look like a brigading thread where people complain about what people were posting in other forums, organising to report stuff and kept in this forum to control who can post what.
There's no feed back thread because there's no open discussion or alternative views wanted. It's been decided there is an issue and it's agree with us or you are the enemy.0 -
In my view it's interesting that such apparently serious and wide-spread issues are confined to this forum and not brought up in feedback with admins and mods of the other forums.
The mod post about this forum not being the place for men's opinions and to keep on fighting the good fight makes it look like a brigading thread where people complain about what people were posting in other forums, organising to report stuff and kept in this forum to control who can post what.
There's no feed back thread because there's no open discussion or alternative views wanted. It's been decided there is an issue and it's agree with us or you are the enemy.
In fairness, it was a thread that kind of grew legs. It soon became apparent that it was a bigger issue than first raised due to the number of people that came forward.
I don't believe there to be any organisation to report posts-it is clear they are concrete examples of what is sexist, homophobic, or hateful content from what women or in some cases men have experienced across the wider fora and their reason for leaving.
I am shocked at the number of people here who have left over the years or are severely restricting where they would visit. It was like everybody felt the same way and then it just came pouring out.
The Mod in Feedback has said it is under review with Admin, so we will just have to accept that and leave them to their discussions.0 -
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That's grand, and I think a lot of us do that really, but I suppose if, disproportionately, women are doing a lot of that - coming across posts that make us back off and ignore - we are effectively kind of ousted. And for a community fora site like boards, we should all be equally entitled to peaceful enjoyment of it.
The only thing I would say to that is that I do not enjoy spaces that are overly patrolled in real life for political correctness. I come from a family with a lot of bawdy lads and I work among mostly labouring men and I laugh at them being rough and ready and sailing wittily close to the edge. I can take as good as I get and tease them right back with sexist remarks. Now nastiness is something else, or plain misogyny/misandry is not tolerable, but I do not enjoy monitored spaces where people always have to watch their ps and qs. Men like fine looking women and will pass a remark, women like fine looking men and will pass a remark - sometimes they cross the line but skating along the line it is a fine and appreciable art. We are primal creatures - I don't want the guts ripped out of us for the sake of some prissy idea of what is acceptable.
I hasten to add that is just my preference.0 -
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Sometimes it's not a particular post it's an attitude. For example I mentioned Radio before. Ciara Kelly get very gendered comments. Sarah McInerney got very similar comments when she was on Newstalk and I think the comments are less gender specific now that she is on RTE. For me there could be two reasons: the two radio programmes have different type of listeners or the RTE has less opinionated format. That doesn't change the fact the comments about Newstalk female presenters are often very sexist. People might criticise Pat Kenny for his planning endeavours but nobody comments how he looks or what his voice sounds like.
However how do you report that. If there are just constant little jabs but all together paint different attitude towards female and male presenters.0 -
The mod post about this forum not being the place for men's opinions and to keep on fighting the good fight makes it look like a brigading thread where people complain about what people were posting in other forums, organising to report stuff and kept in this forum to control who can post what.
Hmm, I can't seem to find the mod post you're referring to. Would you mind linking specifically where a moderator said that this forum is not a place for men's opinions? And if you can point out where anyone has attempted to create a coordinated attack on another user or forum, I'm happy to take action on that too.
Unless you've perhaps gotten confused about what brigading is, and you mean to say "encourage to keep fighting for respect and dignity, and standing up to sexism when you come across it"?0 -
Sometimes it's not a particular post it's an attitude. For example I mentioned Radio before. Ciara Kelly get very gendered comments. Sarah McInerney got very similar comments when she was on Newstalk and I think the comments are less gender specific now that she is on RTE. For me there could be two reasons: the two radio programmes have different type of listeners or the RTE has less opinionated format. That doesn't change the fact the comments about Newstalk female presenters are often very sexist. People might criticise Pat Kenny for his planning endeavours but nobody comments how he looks or what his voice sounds like.
However how do you report that. If there are just constant little jabs but all together paint different attitude towards female and male presenters.
As for Pat Kenny I wouldn't throw him out of my boudoir..., but enough of my sexism here. 0 -
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On the other nasty thread you said to me.
You're mad that people don't find fat attractive, and that they would rather not see someones ass and fupa hanging out of basically see through leggings while in a queue. Ok.
I suggest you read Neyite's post No. 134 above this one in this thread which ties in with the topic discussed there about judging people on what they wear.
I did say that, yes.
In the context of people's entitlement to their own opinions as to what is attractive or not.
I was trying to explain the nuance of my comments to you as I felt you were missing it each time I tried to engage with you on it.
In that post I was paraphrasing other poster's comments.
I tried to explain to you the point I was making, several times.
Since you've brought me back into the discussion, and quoted me out of context, I can let you know I have read all of the thread including Neyite's well thought out and balanced post. Along with many others that have said they can see a big difference in admiring an attractive person and 'rape culture'.
Maybe you can go and re-read my comments? They exist in a conversation about people's opinions of what they find attractive or not.
I believe that everyone is entitled to their own preferences when it comes to attractiveness.
I believe that fat isn't attractive to all people, and that's why as a world we have diet products, Slimming World, Weightwatchers, Slimfast Spanx, tips to dress yourself slimmer etc etc etc.
This isn't a far out opinion imho.
Lots of people don't like being fat, and find themselves unattractive as per their own standards, and preferences. Are they wrong to dislike their own bodies? You could argue that, but you could also argue that being fat can lead to health problems, and it's maybe not always a good thing to ignore that fact.
You seem to be taking umbrage at my comments in the light of this conversation about sexism. I have acknowledged sexism, I believe rape culture is a thing. I do not believe others should police what we wear. I see the connections between a society that thinks it's ok to ogle young girls in school uniforms, women out running, or in the gym etc, and 'some' men feeling entitled to act on their own urges when it is not acceptable behaviour.
I do not believe I am entitled to shut down others for having a different opinion to mine, when that opinion is based on their own preferences as to what they find attractive. I will try to shut down behaviour I see as dangerous when I have a chance to.
But...
I do not believe there is a straight correlation between admiring a beautiful person, and being a predator.
That was my point. People judge what we wear.
I stand by it, as I stand with any woman (or man) who finds themselves a victim of sexual violence, assault or harrassment.0 -
I did say that, yes.
In the context of people's entitlement to their own opinions as to what is attractive or not.
I was trying to explain the nuance of my comments to you as I felt you were missing it each time I tried to engage with you on it.
In that post I was paraphrasing other poster's comments.
I tried to explain to you the point I was making, several times.
Since you've brought me back into the discussion, and quoted me out of context, I can let you know I have read all of the thread including Neyite's well thought out and balanced post. Along with many others that have said they can see a big difference in admiring an attractive person and 'rape culture'.
Maybe you can go and re-read my comments? They exist in a conversation about people's opinions of what they find attractive or not.
I believe that everyone is entitled to their own preferences when it comes to attractiveness.
I believe that fat isn't attractive to all people, and that's why as a world we have diet products, Slimming World, Weightwatchers, Slimfast Spanx, tips to dress yourself slimmer etc etc etc.
This isn't a far out opinion imho.
Lots of people don't like being fat, and find themselves unattractive as per their own standards, and preferences. Are they wrong to dislike their own bodies? You could argue that, but you could also argue that being fat can lead to health problems, and it's maybe not always a good thing to ignore that fact.
You seem to be taking umbrage at my comments in the light of this conversation about sexism. I have acknowledged sexism, I believe rape culture is a thing. I do not believe others should police what we wear. I see the connections between a society that thinks it's ok to ogle young girls in school uniforms, women out running, or in the gym etc, and 'some' men feeling entitled to act on their own urges when it is not acceptable behaviour.
I do not believe I am entitled to shut down others for having a different opinion to mine, when that opinion is based on their own preferences as to what they find attractive. I will try to shut down behaviour I see as dangerous when I have a chance to.
But...
I do not believe there is a straight correlation between admiring a beautiful person, and being a predator.
That was my point. People judge what we wear.
I stand by it, as I stand with any woman (or man) who finds themselves a victim of sexual violence, assault or harrassment.
You entered the discussion yourself, very early in this thread, but did not reference the other thread, on which this whole discussion is based. I feel the points you made in the other thread are relevant here.
The point of the other thread was to judge women by what they wear and to judge women's worth by what men deem to be sexually attractive. Why is there a thread disrespecting people for what they wear?
The issue about leggings was that a fat woman wearing leggings looks like a "pig in yoga pants". So I can guess that is the discussion of what is attractive.
I accept you phrased it a bit differently, but the language was poor but as if their their ass and bits are hanging out and that their leggings are see through. Is that because they are fat? The comments about leggings was disgusting, so that is why I pushed back on it. I note there was a photo included of a fat women in leggings to somewhere in the thread, just to hammer home the point of how disgusting they are.
While leggings were welcomed on slim women, no way should a large woman stand in front of a man in a queue as not to hurt his eyes as he does not find it attractive. Do all fat women in leggings have their "ass and fupa" out? Who sets the standards of what is acceptable.
I know you said that everyone judges people by what they wear. You say that is your opinion and that's your opinion, no one could have an issue with that, but you are projecting your own views onto others by telling them what they believe or feel. That is the crux of this thread. I dont believe everyone judges people by what they wear and how attractive they are. I don't believe everyone does either. I believe some do, as you have said you do, but others dont genuinely care.
It is great that you stand by anyone who is harrassed. Women were being belittled for what they wore in that thread. Showing pictures of women to make a laugh of them is harrassment.0 -
The only thing I would say to that is that I do not enjoy spaces that are overly patrolled in real life for political correctness. I come from a family with a lot of bawdy lads and I work among mostly labouring men and I laugh at them being rough and ready and sailing wittily close to the edge. I can take as good as I get and tease them right back with sexist remarks. Now nastiness is something else, or plain misogyny/misandry is not tolerable, but I do not enjoy monitored spaces where people always have to watch their ps and qs. Men like fine looking women and will pass a remark, women like fine looking men and will pass a remark - sometimes they cross the line but skating along the line it is a fine and appreciable art. We are primal creatures - I don't want the guts ripped out of us for the sake of some prissy idea of what is acceptable.
I hasten to add that is just my preference.
Boards has always been a monitored space, thats the reason for moderators.
I think the point is that many posts do cross the line.
Theres a big difference between voicing opinions about finding someone attractive and being blatantly mysogynistic. For example, a thread was posted a few months ago entitled something like 'When is it is acceptable to hit a woman', the thread included posts from a self confessed wife beater who outright blamed his victims, it included posts from other men agreeing & sympathizing with him. I reported some of those posts but they weren't removed.
Theres a difference between sharing opinions on preference when talking about people who dont find attractive. Its another thing to call overweight women fat pigs that arent worthy enough to be seen by men.
Keep in mind, this is a public forum and these aren't private conversations happening behind closed doors (not that that makes them acceptable).
Whose to say someone with mental health issues or someone whose experienced sexual or physical violence, who consistently stumbles across these hateful comments and posts, wont be severely effected by them? Clearly women are effected as several people on this thread have stated that reading a sexist comment on boards has negatively effected their mental health and quality of their day. Some have deleted their accounts.
My biggest concern though would be for young people who are impressionable and believe what these men are posting. Young lads read those posts and think its funny to put down women and girls, this directly effects how they speak to and treat women in their daily lives. Some take it too far and bully women, particularly their girlfriends, women & girls online, female friends.
Young girls read those posts and believe that this is what men think. This directly effects their self esteem and makes them feel self conscious. They feel judged for the size of their breasts, how fat or skinny they are and only feel good enough as long as theyre sexy to men.
In the same breath these men will leave posts about women looking like prostitutes when they go out. It creates a very confusing and negative discourse that women read, see & hear everyday.0 -
Boards definitely has a problem with sexism in some areas. It's down, mainly, to inconsistent moderation which is not a surprise given the number of mods and the size and scope of the site. I don't think there is an easy solution tbh, boards the company obviously don't want to overmoderate and risk turning people off the site, but they need to balance that with not allowing arseholes free rein.
I've admined on forums that were a hell of a lot more aggressive and argumentative than boards, but because it was a lot smaller it was relatively easy to ensure all the category mods were on the same page, to have a general understanding of a posters style, and ensure there was zero toleration for people being arseholes. That's much harder here.
Some sections are better than others, and that goes for areas beyond sexism, but frankly if you treat volunteers like employees and demand they perform certain tasks and chastise them if they do not then you will struggle to keep mod positions filled.
I think the community need to accept some responsibility here as well, it can only help anyway if ****posting is called out. I don't know how much communication and knowledge sharing goes on between mods but maybe that's something that can be explored more.
Finally, I don't think it's healthy if we go too far and make people afraid to discuss issues so that's worth bearing in mind too.0 -
I recall posting on a thread sometime last year, it was a thread about a woman who had complained to a delivery company as the driver had used her phone number (which he had only obtained through work for the purposes of making the delivery) to text her and either ask her out or make other advances, I can’t recall the exact details. Anyway, the number of men who felt she was completely ott for complaining about it was unbelievable. They couldn’t see how it was in any way unnerving for her to have this loose cannon of a guy know where she lived, thus making her vulnerable. I got involved in the discussion and some guy said to me “well, would you prefer to be unattractive??? Maybe unwanted advances is the price some women have to pay for the advantage of being attractive”. I’m not quite sure why he assumed I’m attractive (I’m not!) but it was irrelevant to the thread, and his point about having a price to pay for being attractive is so misogynistic, it’s actually frightening.0
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Airyfairy12 wrote: »Boards has always been a monitored space, thats the reason for moderators.
I think the point is that many posts do cross the line.
Theres a big difference between voicing opinions about finding someone attractive and being blatantly mysogynistic. For example, a thread was posted a few months ago entitled something like 'When is it is acceptable to hit a woman', the thread included posts from a self confessed wife beater who outright blamed his victims, it included posts from other men agreeing & sympathizing with him. I reported some of those posts but they weren't removed.
Theres a difference between sharing opinions on preference when talking about people who dont find attractive. Its another thing to call overweight women fat pigs that arent worthy enough to be seen by men.
Keep in mind, this is a public forum and these aren't private conversations happening behind closed doors (not that that makes them acceptable).
Whose to say someone with mental health issues or someone whose experienced sexual or physical violence, who consistently stumbles across these hateful comments and posts, wont be severely effected by them? Clearly women are effected as several people on this thread have stated that reading a sexist comment on boards has negatively effected their mental health and quality of their day. Some have deleted their accounts.
My biggest concern though would be for young people who are impressionable and believe what these men are posting. Young lads read those posts and think its funny to put down women and girls, this directly effects how they speak to and treat women in their daily lives. Some take it too far and bully women, particularly their girlfriends, women & girls online, female friends.
Young girls read those posts and believe that this is what men think. This directly effects their self esteem and makes them feel self conscious. They feel judged for the size of their breasts, how fat or skinny they are and only feel good enough as long as theyre sexy to men.
In the same breath these men will leave posts about women looking like prostitutes when they go out. It creates a very confusing and negative discourse that women read, see & hear everyday.
I really do not keep up with most of what happens, or notice a lot of things. Of course a thread about hitting women would be absolutely vile. I never saw it. Saying women (or men) look like/are pigs is disgusting - I kind of presume people who say things like that are, shall we say to be kind, persistently unlucky in love. I really don't look at the place in that much depth. As in real life a lot of crap goes over my head because of other more interesting preoccupations.0 -
Airyfairy12 wrote: »Boards has always been a monitored space, thats the reason for moderators.
I think the point is that many posts do cross the line.
Theres a big difference between voicing opinions about finding someone attractive and being blatantly mysogynistic. For example, a thread was posted a few months ago entitled something like 'When is it is acceptable to hit a woman', the thread included posts from a self confessed wife beater who outright blamed his victims, it included posts from other men agreeing & sympathizing with him. I reported some of those posts but they weren't removed.
Theres a difference between sharing opinions on preference when talking about people who dont find attractive. Its another thing to call overweight women fat pigs that arent worthy enough to be seen by men.
Keep in mind, this is a public forum and these aren't private conversations happening behind closed doors (not that that makes them acceptable).
Whose to say someone with mental health issues or someone whose experienced sexual or physical violence, who consistently stumbles across these hateful comments and posts, wont be severely effected by them? Clearly women are effected as several people on this thread have stated that reading a sexist comment on boards has negatively effected their mental health and quality of their day. Some have deleted their accounts.
My biggest concern though would be for young people who are impressionable and believe what these men are posting. Young lads read those posts and think its funny to put down women and girls, this directly effects how they speak to and treat women in their daily lives. Some take it too far and bully women, particularly their girlfriends, women & girls online, female friends.
Young girls read those posts and believe that this is what men think. This directly effects their self esteem and makes them feel self conscious. They feel judged for the size of their breasts, how fat or skinny they are and only feel good enough as long as theyre sexy to men.
In the same breath these men will leave posts about women looking like prostitutes when they go out. It creates a very confusing and negative discourse that women read, see & hear everyday.
I am shocked but, in our society, sadly not surprised to learn of the thread you mention by the man who confessed to being a woman-beater and blamed his victims. That's a very serious matter indeed.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »I am shocked but, in our society, sadly not surprised to learn of the thread you mention by the man who confessed to being a woman-beater and blamed his victims. That's a very serious matter indeed.
It's also shocking if posts supporting that person and victim blaming were not actioned despite being reported.
Perhaps they could be highlighted (not here but to Mods) if they are still on the Boards as part of the wider discussion here?0 -
Agreed, I don't participate in After Hours or most Current Affairs anymore. The leggings thread is a perfect example, some period poverty threads were very eye-opening too. It's not worth the hassle of trying to push back, those boards were lost to a particular kind of poster - #notallmen but there sure is enough of them to set the tone and pile on any opposition. The leggings posters are still there, the poster who called for the boat people to be gunned down is still there and active as ever, the Hazel Chu thread is hopping and a lot of it is just vile and completely made up, she apparently hates the Irish (including her husband) like Hitler hated his Jewish officers. That's mainstream boards for you, and it's a moderation choice.0
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I almost never use the main boards front page, I use My Forums and My Threads (usually threads I've started in fora I don't frequent eg DIY or broadband). Again that helps me to avoid even seeing thread titles that would make my blood boil.
But I shouldn't need to do that, this site should not be a safe haven for sexism, racism, misogyny, hate, homophobia, transphobia and so many other unpleasant things that you can find without even scratching the surface. There's a difference between allowing opposing points of view to discuss important topics, and facilitating and publishing bile.0 -
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I think it is telling that the site's most prominent and indeed, for a while, only female administrator dudara has thrown in the towel and quit. She states the reasons on Twitter
https://twitter.com/dudara/status/1302997882052763651
I know this thread is supposed to be about sexism but sexism is only a symptom of a wider malaise that has been affecting the site for several years.
I posted this a year ago about the site's declining traffic and likely future. Boards has had something of a dead cat bounce due to Covid but I expect the downward trend to continue when the pandemic ends.
I believe that the sexism, the misogyny the racism and the multitude of other issues that the site has can be attributed to a lack of leadership. For too long the site has been left at the whim of volunteers to set its ethos and looking at where it has ended up they have failed miserably. They have tried to be all things to all people and it just has not worked. Pick a side and stick with it. Either you want the hate or you don't.
The leadership issue, namely the lack thereof, from the owners can be tied to the declining traffic. Journal media has realised that they will never monetise the site successfully so have abandoned ship, leaving Odhran to give it one last roll of the dice. I don't fancy his chances.
So here we are again. Another "admin discussion". Like the outcome of the countless feedback threads highlighting such issues I expect nothing to come of this.
For those unhappy with the status quo I would urge you to remember that your content is the only power you have to affect this. Stop posting, close your accounts; moderators, stop doing your unpaid job and resign then close your account. Hit them where it hurts. Nothing will change otherwise. Leave Boards to become the hate-filled echo chamber it is destined to before it inevitably implodes under the weight of its own intolerance.0 -
I’m really showing my dinosaur credentials here with this post, but back when I started on boards in the mid-2000s, AH was the sort of place that had frequent “yore ma” and “blast it with pi55” posts. Like, very regularly. And mods in other fora (and I was guilty of this myself) would sometimes respond to inappropriate posts in their fora with “save that for AH” or “this isn’t AH” etc. And then, the AH mods got together and decided that AH was being misrepresented across other fora and also that those type of posts in AH itself were doing the forum no favours, so they clamped down on the posts and the rest of us mods were asked not to mod with “this isn’t AH” type comments. And it worked. Those types of posts were eradicated by and large, with a concerted mod effort. It is possible to change the ethos and style of posts, but the recognition of the problem has to be there and also the will to do it.0
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I have been quite vocal on this thread, but I have to highlight there are amazing areas on boards too. There are some amazing posters, and for the casual reader in here, it is not all Male posters that are being called out here. It is a small minority, but that small minority can bring down the tone of a thread, or even a forum, as sometimes the posts can go unreported or undealt with.
I'm a mod - I know that sometimes the balance between real life and auctioning a post sometimes conflict, and I have to trust my co-mods are able to pick up the slack. And I mod a fairly quiet forum. It can be a thankless job, and everything is not going to be seen on the busier forums especially.
And we, as women, can't continue to use the mental energy to battle this, and engage with these posts on the regular - the discussion on this thread at the start explains why.
There is no easy answer to this, but I'm glad I'm not the only female poster here who feels like this. We have kept quiet too long, and having this discussion in itself highlights the problem. We should be here to support each other, and discuss this freely.0 -
Silly Gilly wrote: »I think it is telling that the site's most prominent and indeed, for a while, only female administrator dudara has thrown in the towel and quit. She states the reasons on Twitter
https://twitter.com/dudara/status/1302997882052763651
I know this thread is supposed to be about sexism but sexism is only a symptom of a wider malaise that has been affecting the site for several years.
I posted this a year ago about the site's declining traffic and likely future. Boards has had something of a dead cat bounce due to Covid but I expect the downward trend to continue when the pandemic ends.
I believe that the sexism, the misogyny the racism and the multitude of other issues that the site has can be attributed to a lack of leadership. For too long the site has been left at the whim of volunteers to set its ethos and looking at where it has ended up they have failed miserably. They have tried to be all things to all people and it just has not worked. Pick a side and stick with it. Either you want the hate or you don't.
The leadership issue, namely the lack thereof, from the owners can be tied to the declining traffic. Journal media has realised that they will never monetise the site successfully so have abandoned ship, leaving Odhran to give it one last roll of the dice. I don't fancy his chances.
So here we are again. Another "admin discussion". Like the outcome of the countless feedback threads highlighting such issues I expect nothing to come of this.
For those unhappy with the status quo I would urge you to remember that your content is the only power you have to affect this. Stop posting, close your accounts; moderators, stop doing your unpaid job and resign then close your account. Hit them where it hurts. Nothing will change otherwise. Leave Boards to become the hate-filled echo chamber it is destined to before it inevitably implodes under the weight of its own intolerance.
To be devil's advocate, the 'reasons' you say are given by Dudara don't make sense (to me) - an ''amazing'' but ''hate''-filled site - it seems an odd coupling.
It was also liked by just 1 follower out of more than 6000. Not exactly a well-supported viewpoint that made an impression.
And since I am an active participant in the only trans thread I know of on here, I would like to counter her casual inclusion of ''trans'' hate by saying clearly that I am never filled with hatred for anyone, but I am exercising my posting privileges to express rational arguments on a very important and broad subject I feel strongly about. I never express hate there. But my opinion is not liked there by some and sometimes depicted as ''hate''. That is an incorrect designation. But that's life.
If someone does express outright hate there or anywhere the post should be deleted. No problem about that at all.
It is pretty simple to delete incontrovertible hatred anywhere. Just delete the post and the poster if they persist. An opinion you disagree with is not automatically hate however - it is just an opinion you disagree with. There is a huge distinction. More people should sharpen their wits and argue the toss where they disagree.
But your last sentence makes me wonder, since you can already foresee an inevitable hate filled implosion of intolerance. I dunno - I reckon there is mostly ordinary stuff about plumbing and cycling and weather and things. If I see someone posting something really nasty - and again I miss an awful lot - I just make a mental note not to give that person any attention or responses in the future.
Sure, I agree with deleting the disgusting stuff. If I do happen to see something really rotten, I report and say yikes. Just keep doing that.0 -
Silly Gilly wrote: »For those unhappy with the status quo I would urge you to remember that your content is the only power you have to affect this. Stop posting, close your accounts; moderators, stop doing your unpaid job and resign then close your account. Hit them where it hurts. Nothing will change otherwise. Leave Boards to become the hate-filled echo chamber it is destined to before it inevitably implodes under the weight of its own intolerance.
That's one way to look at it.
Another is that the effort required to stamp out all this alleged "hate" (for many people these days, remember, "hate" is any viewpoint they disagree with or find mildly offensive) will kill the site quicker than anything else. Nobody wants to post on a forum filled with rules, strictures, warnings, and politically correct busybodies, because it quickly becomes an echo chamber of the like-minded.0 -
Silly Gilly wrote: »I think it is telling that the site's most prominent and indeed, for a while, only female administrator dudara has thrown in the towel and quit. She states the reasons on Twitter
https://twitter.com/dudara/status/1302997882052763651
Thats very sad about dudara, she was a great contributor over on the Cooking forum and always gave me great advice,, she really was fantastic at sharing her wide knowledge. I had noticed that she stopped posting about 2 years ago and I had always wondered why. Im actually annoyed now she left for the very reasons being discussed in this thread :mad:
I think its clear the actual consequences of low level trolling on Boards are completely invisible. The trolling is there for all to see but what we never really see is the consequences of it. Good posters dont have the energy to be dealing with it so instead just give up and close their accounts. They wont be making any grand announcements about them leaving or the reasons for it, they just go quietly into the night while the low level troll gets to continue on their damage to the community completely unfettered.
This is not going to end up well long term for Boards imo. Sooner or later the powers that be have to ask themselves who they are going to back. Is it the overall community or is it just a small minority of low level trolls who are responsible for good posters leaving the site? If the latter then the long term outlook for the site is not good when a small minority are allowed to be successful in driving good posters away.0 -
An opinion you disagree with is not automatically hate however - it is just an opinion you disagree with. There is a huge distinction. More people should sharpen their wits and argue the toss where they disagree.
Over the years there has been a definite trend to replace robust discussion with cancel culture. Now it seems if you disagree with someone you try to get them banned/cancelled/silenced/whatever. It's a problem bigger than just boards obviously but it's insidious.0 -
runawaybishop wrote: »Over the years there has been a definite trend to replace robust discussion with cancel culture. Now it seems if you disagree with someone you try to get them banned/cancelled/silenced/whatever. It's a problem bigger than just boards obviously but it's insidious.
Are you saying that peoples experiences here are not genuine or looking to silence people?
It reads very much as the other way round.0 -
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runawaybishop wrote: »No, I am not saying that at all. I don't know where you got that from.
From your comment and reading it in respect of what posters have bravely posted here.
It reads as if you see cancel culture here.0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
This discussion has been closed.
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