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Why is Ireland's justice system so lenient?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Why on earth would someone with a 27k car not have 3rd party, fire and theft insurance?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Nermal


    McCrack wrote: »
    Why on earth would someone with a 27k car not have 3rd party, fire and theft insurance?

    So long as there's insurance, crime has no consequences.

    The morality of the ambulance-chaser.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Nermal wrote: »
    So long as there's insurance, crime has no consequences.

    The morality of the ambulance-chaser.

    Nobody is suggesting that, it's just simply a falsehood to try make an argument that someone with a 27k car would not have it insured and be left out of pocket and having to get the bus instead. It's like a lot of emotional nonsense on this thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,263 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Mimon wrote: »
    Judges live in their Ivory towers and have zero chance of being a victim of crime.

    They should have to live for a couple of months of the year in the rougher parts of our country and see what normal people have to deal with from the scobes.

    As much as I hate the phrase "ivory towers", this is correct imho. If someone produced a map of areas of higher crime and areas where judges live, it'd be interesting. Judges don't tend to live in Cherry Orchard and have to regularly wake up to their car window broken. They don't have gangs of skangers roaming their area causing misery for the locals.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Wouldn't the easiest thing to do then be to stop offering automatic remission to people who had over a certain amount of convictions


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,164 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    McCrack wrote: »
    Nobody is suggesting that, it's just simply a falsehood to try make an argument that someone with a 27k car would not have it insured and be left out of pocket and having to get the bus instead. It's like a lot of emotional nonsense on this thread.

    They’ll be out of pocket as their insurance premium will rise.

    They will be out of pocket as they need to acquire alternative transport ie. rent a car or taxi it... in addition to car costs such as tax and insurance they still need to pay..

    If they can and choose to get a bus / train / taxi / luas .....They will be up every morning about an hour earlier, home an hour later, more tired / exhausted, more inconvenienced... that’s unacceptable.

    So the impact of a family, couple or individual just being without their car for a bit... it’s a hell of a bigger impact, the punishment for the thief needs to be mindful of this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    Cienciano wrote: »
    As much as I hate the phrase "ivory towers", this is correct imho. If someone produced a map of areas of higher crime and areas where judges live, it'd be interesting. Judges don't tend to live in Cherry Orchard and have to regularly wake up to their car window broken. They don't have gangs of skangers roaming their area causing misery for the locals.
    True, if a skanger strayed into one of those upper crust areas the guards would be rung and you can guarantee they would be out to run him off in record time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2



    Priest's and police still have alot of clout when writing these pillars of the community/ reformed character references for scumbags.

    That day is long long gone. Judges have told solicitors that they dont want to see letters from the clergy after a rape case in Kerry a few years back.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20108065.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,164 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    If I was judge who got a letter from a priest who was vouching for the good character of a defendant, Id summon him to court...

    I’d cross examine him...

    How long do you know the defendant for ?

    How did you come to know them ?

    In what context would you say you know him, friends ? acquaintances ?

    How often do you see each other socially or talk together ?

    When was the last time you met socially or in fact for any reason ?

    If the answers were vague or indicative of a situation where the priest had some tenuous connection to his father who was a member of the bereavement committee or similar church quango, I’d have no difficulty holding the priest in contempt for attempting to deceive the court...


  • Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭Mr Meanor


    is the super prison Thornton Hall still on the back burner or did they sell it off?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Mr Meanor wrote: »
    is the super prison Thornton Hall still on the back burner or did they sell it off?

    That I think was going to be on Government owned land on some former mother and child home property handed as part of Government/church compensation handover.


  • Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    That I think was going to be on Government owned land on some former mother and child home property handed as part of Government/church compensation handover.

    "The Comptroller and Auditor General has concluded that the state paid “at least twice the market price” when they purchased land in North County Dublin for a new super prison containing the relocated Mountjoy and Central Mental Hospital. In the report, published in September 2006, it said that agricultural land in the area was selling at between €20,000 and €30,000 per acre, at the time of purchase in 2005. But the government bought 150 acres at €200,000 an acre for the prison complex site, a total purchase price of €29.9 million. The original budget had been €10 million"

    The Thornton Hall Scandal


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    RandRuns wrote: »
    "The Comptroller and Auditor General has concluded that the state paid “at least twice the market price” when they purchased land in North County Dublin for a new super prison containing the relocated Mountjoy and Central Mental Hospital. In the report, published in September 2006, it said that agricultural land in the area was selling at between €20,000 and €30,000 per acre, at the time of purchase in 2005. But the government bought 150 acres at €200,000 an acre for the prison complex site, a total purchase price of €29.9 million. The original budget had been €10 million"

    The Thornton Hall Scandal

    No doubt bought from some member of the party faithful or an astute business man who gave it away to the state at a "bargain price".


  • Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    No doubt bought from some member of the party faithful or an astute business man who gave it away to the state at a "bargain price".

    You might ask a certain former Senator, who is related to the parties who owned the site, and the agent who sold the site, and was, allegedly, involved in the discussions to buy it, about that.......


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Sentencing seems to be all over the place as does the cops proclivity to prosecute. Get a judge on a bad day or upset a guard and it'll have a big impact. You could be jailed for weed and get left off for violent assault.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Cienciano wrote: »
    As much as I hate the phrase "ivory towers", this is correct imho. If someone produced a map of areas of higher crime and areas where judges live, it'd be interesting. Judges don't tend to live in Cherry Orchard and have to regularly wake up to their car window broken. They don't have gangs of skangers roaming their area causing misery for the locals.

    It should not come as a surprise that people generally live in properties relative to their after tax income and judges are no exception.

    When people say "ivory towers" they mean detachment but the reality is judges that are working in busy district courts in cities and counties all over the country and in the circuit courts dealing with criminal elements day and day out doing a difficult public service role and applying the law within the parameters of legislation and sentencing principles.

    The vast majority of people have no dealings or experience professional or otherwise with the criminal justice system except to post emotive ill informed opinions on the internet and this thread is a good example.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,458 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    People have been complaining about violent offenders getting off with lame excuses for decades. This is a report on attacks on Dublin Bus from 1978. Note that they state attacks with weapons were unheard of 15 years earlier in the early 1960's.

    Most telling is the comment at 5:40...

    'The Guards are frustrated as well, they go into court with fellas who are after slashing seats or slashing a conductor or drivers face and they go into court the following day and they say "Your Honour, I was drunk, I'm sorry sir". And the next thing you know is a £2 fine and off they go again. They probably robbed the £2 to pay it anyway. And until the people on the bench start to adminster out the justice, then the bus men will continue to protect themselves'.

    https://www.rte.ie/archives/2018/0315/947620-violence-on-buses/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭Caquas


    What would be the proper sentence in this case? His original offence was minor - a speeding ticket - but perjury should be regarded as a serious offence in all circumstances and, in this case, it was committed to obstruct a major investigation into Garda corruption. As the judge says "This goes to the core of the entire administration of justice.”

    Two weeks might seem very light and the defendant's status as a Limerick hurling star might have helped him but compare this case to the vastly more serious perjury - upending a gangland murder trial - which resulted in only 100 hours of community service.

    Limerick, again 🤬

    Think of all the blatant lies under oath which are never prosecuted. When was the last perjury trial in this country before this week? I don't recall one in the past 10 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭Marcos


    Well Willie O'Dea didn't face any trial for perjury despite admitting giving false evidence in the High Court in 2009.

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    You'd be better off with an AI handing out sentencing, these judges are too prideful and biased.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭beeker1


    We need a Sherriff Joe Arpaio here , the coddling of inmates coupled with the revolving door cash cow that's keeping the legal profession well greased , you wouldn't get it anywhere else , prison should be dickensian, a deterrent to going back there , sky sports & ripping the roof off because they didn't get nikes issued says it all , judges made their gravy and are reluctant to stop the train ! Dispicable



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,102 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Whatever we need, it’s not that gobshite. He solved nothing in Maricopa county. Don’t believe his propaganda, the man was a disgrace as sheriff.


    so far he’s cost the taxpayers of Az $100m



    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭archermoo


    Yeah. The last thing anyone needs is criminals in charge of law enforcement.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,102 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Exactly. He was tough on crime, except when he was committing them.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭archermoo


    Except of course he wasn't really tough on crime. He was tough on people he considered "bad guys". Which had much more to do with what they looked like then anything they actually did.



  • Registered Users Posts: 85,956 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,024 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Marty nolan again.

    So previous for sexual assualt. He had done this twice previously.

    And he gets only 8.5 years for this. Surely its more like 20 years he should be getting. Mad stuff.



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