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Why is Ireland's justice system so lenient?

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  • 03-02-2021 7:35pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 21


    I'm genuinely astounded when I read the news. Its not uncommon for someone who has committed a serious assault to be given a fully suspended sentence, despite numerous previous convictions.

    Is it due to over-packed prisons? If so, why haven't we built more, or even re-start the Thorton Hill prison, which was planned before the crash?

    Is it an ideology that has changed? Have we become a soft touch?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,365 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    The Governmant parties have no interest in changing things, SF would be no different.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Probably the lack of prisons and soft touch government.

    I'm grateful that the far/alt right in Ireland are such morons as the door is wide open for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭Mimon


    portlygent wrote: »
    I'm genuinely astounded when I read the news. Its not uncommon for someone who has committed a serious assault to be given a fully suspended sentence, despite numerous previous convictions.

    Is it due to over-packed prisons? If so, why haven't we built more, or even re-start the Thorton Hill prison, which was planned before the crash?

    Is it an ideology that has changed? Have we become a soft touch?

    Judges live in their Ivory towers and have zero chance of being a victim of crime.

    They should have to live for a couple of months of the year in the rougher parts of our country and see what normal people have to deal with from the scobes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Biggest issue is lack of prison spaces. But it's also a cash cow, when you only lock up the most serious offenders, it's very lucrative for the legal service, free legal aid and keeps a lot more judges, solicitors etc on the gravy train...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,414 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    FF-FG-GP-Lab-SD won't do anything to protect their buddies who are earning hand over fist with the free legal aid.

    SF-PBP-Solidarity won't do anything as it keeps their voters out of prison.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭Urquell


    I always wonder if cost is a problem. If we had to take 5000 scumbags off the street , some for up to 10 years, how much?

    That and the legal system. Its a regular paycheck for those folks, the same old heads roll in and need "representation". How do you explain those with well over 100 convictions? Why would the legal system, no doubt a powerful group in their own right, act against their interests by not opposing more prisons, longer sentencing...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,218 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Biggest issue is lack of prison spaces. But it's also a cash cow, when you only lock up the most serious offenders, it's very lucrative for the legal service, free legal aid and keeps a lot more judges, solicitors etc on the gravy train...

    Thats it both there. Remember Thornton Hall... They said they needed it.
    Status today: Never built

    Very few womens prison spaces.

    And the gravy train of free legal aid and recidivism ensures a steady need for District Court Judges.

    Rinse and repeat the cycle. In fairness I recall a comment from a judge when they encountered someone in court that they had previously issued a custodial sentence. They demanded to know why the offender was back before the courts when they should be serving time. I think no space was the answer.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    We don't have enough prison cells.

    Also our politics is predominantly left wing liberal and progressive because that is prevailing ideology of people who enter the legal profession and academia.
    The emphasis is on the perpetrator his/her rights and toward rehabilitation rather than retribution.

    Habitual criminals usually have personality disorders due to their chaotic upbringings with a pattern of physical psychological and sexual abuse combined with poverty depravation and family breakdown contributing to their formation that led to criminality.

    This is all taken into account.

    Hence the leniency.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,935 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    A young man got the probation act today. He issued death & racist threats against Ian Wright. Judge seems to think its a "boys will be boys" type of thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,935 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Kaisr Sose wrote:
    Thats it both there. Remember Priory Hall... They said they needed it. Status today: Never built


    Priory Hall is the apartment complex that was built, without fireproofing, in Clongriffin on Dublins Northside.

    Thornton Hall was to be the new prison


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,218 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Priory Hall is the apartment complex that was built, without fireproofing, in Clongriffin on Dublins Northside.

    Thornton Hall was to be the new prison

    My bad, realised after posting it. Went back there and changed it.


  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Lads, you’ll hear one case out of hundreds everyday where it appears to be lenient.

    Anyone who thinks the system is lenient in the main hasn’t a clue. Yes it can be very disheartening to hear about these in the paper, but that’s exactly why they’re printed; to cause outrage.

    If you had every sentencing or every ruling printed every day then the newspaper would be like a novel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭The_Brood


    Some countries have police brutality which is sickening, but Ireland's 'let thugs go free so they can assault normal people' approach is equally abhorrent. There needs to be some kind of middle ground.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Lads, you’ll hear one case out of hundreds everyday where it appears to be lenient.

    Anyone who thinks the system is lenient in the main hasn’t a clue. Yes it can be very disheartening to hear about these in the paper, but that’s exactly why they’re printed; to cause outrage.

    If you had every sentencing or every ruling printed every day then the newspaper would be like a novel.

    Well there appears to be one judge in particular who seems to love sex offenders. Every time this judge sentences a sex offender it's obnoxiously lenient. Obviously I won't name the judge, but anyone who follows the news will know who I'm referring to.

    Should the media not report this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭Esho


    I think there is an element of gravy train in this.
    Remember what happened to Alan Shatter when he tried to reform the legal system?
    Eye opener to be in court, where the sons of the most privileged are representing the sins of the least privileged in legal aid.

    Ireland doesn't have police who will bock the knollox out of the shytes who are acting up either.
    Not anymore anyway. They just shrug their shoulders about anti social behaviour and petty assault and theft.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The verdict and sentence in the Ian Wright abuse case is laughable.

    It gives a clear message that racist abuse can be written off as a bit of boyish banter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭jay0109


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Lads, you’ll hear one case out of hundreds everyday where it appears to be lenient.

    Anyone who thinks the system is lenient in the main hasn’t a clue. Yes it can be very disheartening to hear about these in the paper, but that’s exactly why they’re printed; to cause outrage.
    If what you say is true, then we wouldn't be reading about people before Judges with dozens/hundreds of prior convictions


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,166 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    And we have the US to show us the way it should work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    I don't think we should emulate what the US is doing, as what they do is over board in the other direction.

    We also don't even try to rehabilitate anyone either. We should look to other countries and see what works. We need to cut down on reoffending big time.

    Basically we have the worse of all worlds. We don't lock people up for violent crimes long enough imo and we don't even try to rehabilitate people so they don't do it again.

    I think the system needs to be designed around making sure people do not reoffend. If we are not locking them up for life, then the goal is to make sure they leave prison reformed, and that is imo how we should judge our justice system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    No party wants to go after crime for 2 reasons. They know if they fail, it's a stick to bat them with. The other reason is because they don't want to appear right wing.

    I have raised this a few times because not many people know and its will have huge impacts on housing estates with trouble makers. The recent Programme for Government said it wanted to expand the Youth Diversion Scheme from 18 up to 24. This means that until you are 24 you would have to commit a very serious offence to go to prison. We are talking murder, attempted murder, arson, rape etc. Anything else will just get sent to the Junior Liason Officer who will have a stern word with them and no conviction.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Irelands political spectrum, options from the left to the far left, what a choice !


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,137 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I still can't get over the Eamon Lynch case.

    483 convictions.

    I am genuinely curious as to what happens in UK, FR, DE if you have 483 convictions?


    He was drink-driving, at up to 100mph, with no driving licence or insurance, was banned from driving, when he ploughed into another car, the other driver was killed.

    18 months in prison.


    To add insult to injury, and this is unbelievable, Eamon Lynch then tried to sue the dead man's family insurer, trying to claim for his own injuries.

    I love Ireland, but sometimes it drives you mad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Aegir wrote: »
    The verdict and sentence in the Ian Wright abuse case is laughable.

    It gives a clear message that racist abuse can be written off as a bit of boyish banter.

    When the judge said he saw nothing to be gained by giving a custodial sentence, I was shocked.

    Surely it would be a huge deterrent and send a message that racist hate mail is not gonna fly these days.

    But Mr Judge knows better I guess


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Geuze wrote: »
    I still can't get over the Eamon Lynch case.

    483 convictions.

    I am genuinely curious as to what happens in UK, FR, DE if you have 483 convictions?


    He was drink-driving, at up to 100mph, with no driving licence or insurance, was banned from driving, when he ploughed into another car, the other driver was killed.

    18 months in prison.


    To add insult to injury, and this is unbelievable, Eamon Lynch then tried to sue the dead man's family insurer, trying to claim for his own injuries.

    I love Ireland, but sometimes it drives you mad.

    Im a firm believer that when you habitually commit crimes or commit a serious crime, rehab just wont work.

    They should be just locked away forever. No use to society

    18 months is a joke.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Irelands political spectrum, options from the left to the far left, what a choice !

    Left and far left lol

    That one aspect of communism that still applies in China/North Korea/Cuba today is how lenient they are on crime and how few people are in prison in those countries.....

    Irelands political options left wing holy f**k


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Ireland is very left centred in general for everything from prison sentencing to putting up homeless people in hotels. Maybe it's not such a bad thing as we're much better than the US as an example.

    However, we never take any better policy examples from anywhere else. Education from Finland, housing from Singapore, Drugs from Netherland/Portuagal, Water charges from every other country in Europe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,915 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    The Governmant parties have no interest in changing things, SF would be no different.

    SF would be mega lenient on violent crime, any crime they’d just blame the lack of opportunity for people... blahh blahhh

    They’d reduce the number of prison places too to deter judges from handing out custodial sentences and to appeal further to the criminal classes and the nerdowells, who vote for SF...

    SF would be an absolute disaster....the have nots would be given everything free gratis and the actual ‘WORKING’ people would be taxed to and through the bôllocks for daring to make something of and for themselves as well as contributing to the state and its running... theyd have fûck all to gain from a SF government... only scratchers, criminals and ner - do well chronically repeating hand out merchants who know and want no different would be winners.


  • Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭yoke


    What is this bull**** about "left wing" and "right wing"? Does everyone have to conform to one of these 2 "preset" sides?

    For example, I love shooting guns (in places where it's not going to get me into trouble with the law), driving insanely fast (in places where it's not going to get me into trouble with the law), fighting (in places where it's not going to get me into trouble with the law), and I think people who start conflicts (eg. name-calling or assaulting people without provocation) should be punished harshly (prison is not enough punishment), and I love eating meat (it's tasty. even if you don't eat meat, you're still a killer cos you'd be killing cabbages).

    However, I also am an atheist (hate all religions as they are lies), I support immigration (we either stand united, or we go to war with each other incessantly - "peace" can only be a temporary stage between separated nations), I support gay rights (hate people who pick on gays or minorities of any kind as that is the sign of a coward, ie. someone who picks out outnumbered people or people who don't want to fight to make themselves look strong) , I support science and **** that actually works, etc.

    Please explain if I am left wing or right wing, and give the reasoning for your answer in no less than 100,000 words.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    yoke wrote: »
    Please explain if I am left wing or right wing, and give the reasoning for your answer in no less than 100,000 words.

    Put your details into politcal compass and let us know.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,941 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    portlygent wrote:
    Is it due to over-packed prisons? If so, why haven't we built more, or even re-start the Thorton Hill prison, which was planned before the crash?

    No conclusive evidence to support, jailing more for longer, actually truly reduces crime, and it's bloody expensive


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