Reports of a military coup in Myanmar

whisky_galore

wes wrote: »

Bono calls for Aung San Suu Kyi to quit


He was calling for her to resign a few years back. She is completely discredited.

You're really in the shït when Bonio doesn't like you.

whisky_galore

A Knight of Ireland wrote: »

I'd say they are ****ting themselves now that Simon Coveney condemned the military coup in the "strongest possible terms" :-D

Like receiving a threat from a gerbil.

They won't give two fcuks what the US or (lol) EU think either.

Galwayguy35

Just another tin pot country showing themselves up for the lunatics they are, let them off as long as its only each other they are killing.

Video footage of this

https://www.ladbible.com/news/viral-myanmar-pe-teacher-carries-out-aerobics-class-as-military-coup-unfolds-20210202?source=twitter

biko

How the mighty can fall

1991, awarded the Nobel Peace Prize while under house arrest.

2015, led the National League for Democracy (NLD) to victory in Myanmar's first openly contested election in 25 years.

2020, in house arrest again.

Tokyo

Overheal wrote: »

"An presenter on military-owned Myawaddy TV made the announcement and cited a section of the military-drafted constitution that allows the military to take control in times of national emergency. He said the reason for takeover was in part due to the government’s failure to act on the military’s claims of voter fraud in last November’s election and its failure to postpone the election because of the coronavirus crisis."

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/31/military-coup-myanmar-suu-kyi-464232

Sounds like they're copy-catting Trump

This.

It's been an interesting couple of days here (I live in Yangon). I woke up yesterday morning to all comms (phone networks, ISPs etc) having been cut, presumably to kill communication before the military had rounded up members of parliament, and the tanks have been rolling into town ever since. Government leaders (including Aung San Su Kyi) were taken away at gunpoint, the military have now instated an interim president for the next year.

The bigger concern right now is the response of the people - unite previous coups, a generation of younger people have grown up in democracy and are unwilling to let it go so easily, and the Tatmadaw (armed forces) may well be quite brutal in their response.

Tokyo

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

their oil and gas industry predates independence. why launch a coup now?

The NLD (Democratic Party) won more than 80% of the votes in last November's election. The first sitting of parliament since then would have been yesterday (Monday) which would have cemented that victory. Which is why they acted when they did.

As to the overall motive, it is somewhat confusing, as the military still wield enormous power (and wealth) here, even with a pseudo-democratic government. The motivation seems to be more internal politics, with generals trying to hold on to power and wealth for future generations of their families.

biko

mike_ie wrote: »

It's been an interesting couple of days here (I live in Yangon).

As I understand it Aung San Suu Kyi is still very popular with the Buddhist majority in the country?

Tokyo

biko wrote: »

As I understand it Aung San Suu Kyi is still very popular with the Buddhist majority in the country?

Hugely so. She is referred to as 'the lady' and is revered here by the majority.

While I don't always agree with her politics (especially WRT Rohinga), comments like this:

wes wrote: »

She torpedoed her own rep to defend the militaries genocide of the Rohingya. She won't find many willing to speak out on her behalf.

...are misinformed. If anything, this coup is a perfect example of what happens when you speak out against the military, and to a large degree she is a buffer between the people, and the military, who still wield a huge amount of power here constitutionally.

Brussels Sprout

mike_ie wrote: »

It's been an interesting couple of days here (I live in Yangon). I woke up yesterday morning to all comms (phone networks, ISPs etc) having been cut, presumably to kill communication before the military had rounded up members of parliament, and the tanks have been rolling into town ever since. Government leaders (including Aung San Su Kyi) were taken away at gunpoint, the military have now instated an interim president for the next year.

Didn't the military basically rig the constitution so that they would always hold the balance of power even with an elected parliament?

Who are Myanmar's biggest trading partners? Are any of them likely to care about this (I know the Chinese won't and the Thais hardly will either given their history of coups).

political analyst

Hostility towards the Rohingya is widespread in Myanmar. However, despite government control of the media, I still find it difficult to believe that most Myanmar Buddhists hate the Rohingya.

The Rohingya were lawful residents when Myanmar, which was previously known as Burma, became independent. So why do so many people in Myanmar think that the Rohingya were illegal immigrants?

Tokyo

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Didn't the military basically rig the constitution so that they would always hold the balance of power even with an elected parliament?

The military automatically hold 25% of the seats in parliament. In addition, they also have complete autonomy over the ministries of home, border affairs and defense. In other words, the military operate in parallel with the democratic government rather than under it, and they wield the big sticks.

Who are Myanmar's biggest trading partners? Are any of them likely to care about this (I know the Chinese won't and the Thais hardly will either given their history of coups).

Off the top of my head, China, Thailand, India, Japan, Singapore. China will be an interesting one because the NLD were far more open to relations with China than the military were. Thailand has refused to take sides AFAIK and has declared the coup as an internal matter. Not sure how other countries have reacted yet as internet access has been quite restricted here - the military are camped out in the phone providers and ISPs from what I hear.

political analyst

mike_ie wrote: »

The military automatically hold 25% of the seats in parliament. In addition, they also have complete autonomy over the ministries of home, border affairs and defense. In other words, the military operate in parallel with the democratic government rather than under it, and they wield the big sticks.



Off the top of my head, China, Thailand, India, Japan, Singapore. China will be an interesting one because the NLD were far more open to relations with China than the military were. Thailand has refused to take sides AFAIK and has declared the coup as an internal matter. Not sure how other countries have reacted yet as internet access has been quite restricted here - the military are camped out in the phone providers and ISPs from what I hear.

Didn't the Chinese communists throw their Burmese comrades under a bus in the past 2 or 3 decades?

Brussels Sprout

political analyst wrote: »

So why do so many people in Myanmar think that the Rohingya were illegal immigrants?

Why do so many Americans think the US Election was stolen?

Same reason. Lies propagated on social media with almost no oversight. In Myanmar's case I seem to recall that Facebook had only 4 moderators for the content of the entire country. People were being told all sorts of heinous and terrible stories about the Rohingya and they had no reason not to believe it.

Tokyo

political analyst wrote: »

Hostility towards the Rohingya is widespread in Myanmar. However, despite government control of the media, I still find it difficult to believe that most Myanmar Buddhists hate the Rohingya.

Like many similar situations around the world, most don't have an opinion one way or the other. Life is hard here for most people, and most people are more focused on taking care of their own, than worrying about what is happening in Rakhine State.

political analyst wrote: »

The Rohingya were lawful residents when Myanmar, which was previously known as Burma, became independent. So why do so many people in Myanmar think that the Rohingya were illegal immigrants?

I'm not sure that's entirely true. Many of the Rohingya came here as migrant labour under British rule, and the British made promises of an independent Muslim state in return for their support during WWII that they never followed through on. Once the British left, they were stateless and hated as allies of the British and that's pervaded ever since. Since then they have never been issued with any form of citizenship here and can't avail of any state facilities such as hospitals or schools. That's my understanding at least.

political analyst

mike_ie wrote: »

Like many similar situations around the world, most don't have an opinion one way or the other. Life is hard here for most people, and most people are more focused on taking care of their own, than worrying about what is happening in Rakhine State.



I'm not sure that's entirely true. Many of the Rohingya came here as migrant labour under British rule, and the British made promises of an independent Muslim state in return for their support during WWII that they never followed through on. Once the British left, they were stateless and hated as allies of the British and that's pervaded ever since. Since then they have never been issued with any form of citizenship here and can't avail of any state facilities such as hospitals or schools. That's my understanding at least.

If they were brought by the British to Burma during the colonial rule, then they were still lawful residents when the British left. After all, British Protestants who continued living in the Irish Free State, which was formally declared a republic in 1948, were not denied Irish citizenship.

Tokyo

political analyst wrote: »

If they were brought by the British to Burma during the colonial rule, then they were still lawful residents when the British left. After all, British Protestants who continued living in the Irish Free State, which was formally declared a republic in 1948, were not denied Irish citizenship.

Sure, but just because a particular course of action was chosen in one place, doesn't automatically imply that the same course of action will be chosen elsewhere. the Rohingya were always considered as 'outsiders', invited by the British nit not by the Burmese, and with the yoke of British rule taken away, they actively excluded the Rohingya from gaining any constitutional rights in Myanmar. In 1982, the Rohingya were officially declared as being Bengali and as such, not citizens of Myanmar, and that persists to this day.

biko

What do you think will happen next Mike?
This is pretty much the same situation as before 2015, give or take.

Are people there worried?

Tokyo

biko wrote: »

What do you think will happen next Mike?
This is pretty much the same situation as before 2015, give or take.

Are people there worried?

Good question, and I have to admit that I don't really understand the military's strategy here.

Prior to the coup, the military seemed to have been in a very good place in terms of the balance struck. The people had the democracy they sought, ostensibly at least, they had a political party headed by a person they revered, yet the military still controlled the most powerful areas of government, they had total control over the wealth of the nation, and had Aung San Suu Kyi on a reasonable tight leash in terms of how she could speak publicly about them, due to fear of reprisals. Speculation here (and something I personally agree with) is that this was pushed forwards by Myanmar’s commander-in-chief, General Min Aung Hlaing as an attempt to hold on to wealth and power as he was due to leave his position later this year.

Are people worried? Definitely. There has been a lot of panic buying, communications, banking etc. have been shut down (though I think they are due to reopen), the exchange rate is shooting up and there's a risk of hyperinflation. I was talking to my lethwei instructor yesterday - he's 61 and has seen this happen before and they are pretty concerned, particularly with the bare-facedness of it. There's also a huge risk of violent protests - supporters of the Tatmadaw (military) takeover demonstrated yesterday about 5 minutes from here (from what I gather, the military has been paying supporters to attend) and considering the overwhelming support Aung San Suu Kyi has, as well as the NLD, it's a matter of when, rather than if, that happens. And anecdotally at least, when this happened in 1988, the military and their supporters had no issue with cutting the throats of protestors. Religion is quickly becoming a factor here too - I believe that yesterday the Young Men's Buddhist Association have come out in favour of the Tatmadaw, and they are a very influential organisation. News organizations are posting photos of the quiet streets of Yangon to illustrate than things are relatively peaceful, but the streets are quiet due to a combination of COVID, curfews and restrictions, and fear. In my opinion it's a pressure cooker on the boil, about to blow.

Purely my own opinion here, but this is not a simple throwback to 2015. The way I see it is that people aren't going to be as willing to kowtow to this as they did in 1988. A generation has now grown up under a pseudo democracy, with access to western ideals, social media and so on. And I think the military have put all their chips on the table here and have to go all in, or not at all. If they back down now, then they will end up in a worse position than they were in before February 1 in terms of strength and support. Already there is a strong and more open public backlash that you wouldn't have seen here even five years ago. After lockdown at 8pm yesterday, you could hear pots and pans being banged across the city as a form of civil disobedience, and there is a very strong social media campaign to rise up.

wes

mike_ie wrote: »

...are misinformed. If anything, this coup is a perfect example of what happens when you speak out against the military, and to a large degree she is a buffer between the people, and the military, who still wield a huge amount of power here constitutionally.

I disagree she went out of her way to defend the genocide:

Aung San Suu Kyi Defends Myanmar Against Rohingya Genocide Accusations


and she showed a great deal of hostility towards a Muslim journalist due to there religion:

"No one told me I was going to be interviewed by a Muslim": Aung San Suu Kyi's Rohingya problem


She has shown her true colors via her active defense of genocide and her open hatred towards Muslims in general.

Her rep is in tatters for good reason, and she has only herself to blame. I find it hard to have sympathy for her and have yet to see anything that could possibly exonerate her.

patnor1011

Pointless discussion.
There are coups happening in few places and a lot of them happened in the past.
Some were claimed to be "good" some "bad" and in the end it was always people who suffer. Throw in "interventions" and "sanctions" and more people suffer.

The coup protagonists probably just started piling in cars and all humanists in various governments started issuing condemnation and threats. That is quite amusing to observe as there were some coups in recent past where the same humanists carefully waited out to see who prevails. Like what happened in Turkey recently.

I fail to see how the Myanmar coup is a horrible affair while the attempted and ongoing coup in Venezuela is heroic.

There are always international and regional powers combined with economic interest behind most of such endeavors. The reason for agreeing or rejecting is always at hand. Real or invented (like in Iraq case) it oes not matter. People are guaranteed to suffer again.

Brussels Sprout

patnor1011 wrote: »

Pointless discussion.

Feel free to stay out of it then.


Mike how are things today?

Tokyo

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Feel free to stay out of it then.


Mike how are things today?

Pretty tense. The reaction of people to the 8pm curfew last night was a lot stronger than the day beforehand, with songs from the 1988 coup ringing out across the city - the civil dosobedience movement is certainly getting stronger each day.

Additionally, Aung San Suu Kyi is being arrested (at least for 15 days until she is charged) for illegally possessing communication devices in her home, after a search conducted by the miltary AFTER detaining her. The 'illegal communications devices' in question - the $30 walkie talkies used by her bodyguards to communicate with one another. It appears we have reached the 'trumped-up charges' stage of the coup.

Today the government issued a statement that they would be blocking whatever internet access is remaining, particularly in the areas of social media and messaging apps such as WhatsApp as they feel that "Facebook is contributing to civil unrest', and as such, much of the country has been cut off to one degree or another, depending on their ISP. My phone network has been completely cut off, but for some reason my internet hasn't been hit too hard yet, presumably because I don't use a mainstream ISP and they haven't gotten around to doing so yet. It's hit and miss - boards, and many other sites were inaccessible to me earlier but are back again for now nope, still blocked.

I'm not sure what they hope to achieve by this to be honest. I have a feeling that the powers that be are still living in the 1988 mindset where they can throw a blanket over the country and the problems will go away. From what I can see though, it will only serve to inflame people even further.

Tokyo

Just a quick update as to the current situation here:

• The military shut down all internet access to the country for 48 hours over the weekend to prevent mass communication for the civil disobedience movement.
• Protests have taken place in most parts of the country since Saturday. Protests in Yangon converge at Sule Pagoda and City Hall which is about one block away.
• So far, protests have been relatively peaceful, however this afternoon, supporters of the military party arrived in Yangon (many of them paid to do so) which caused clashes in the afternoon.
• Military vehicles rolled into the city late last night, which bodes ominous tidings for protests tomorrow.
• Lockdown is still from 8pm to 4am, and the military government have announced that any public gathering of more than five people at any time of the day is illegal.

There are other more anecdotal additions to that list that are at the very least, concerning, particularly with respect to the allowances the military have given themselves in how they can respond to insurrection. The list above is verifiable though.

[edit]A car just drove into a group of protestors in Mandalay. One dead, three are in ICU.

Kivaro

I'd say Mike is having difficulty getting internet access in Myanmar, or wary of traffic monitoring.
But it is good to see the protests there gathering steam with national strikes and more protests. Even though the dictatorship are trying to block protest footage, I saw one clip on a foreign news report of riot police dressed in black blocking protestors and when they started to use water canons against the protestors, two police officers left the police line and used their riot shields to help protect the civilians. Powerful message. Hopefully the people of Myanmar will continue to escalate their opposition to this despotic dictatorship.

Tokyo

Kivaro wrote: »

I'd say Mike is having difficulty getting internet access in Myanmar, or wary of traffic monitoring.

The latter more than the former at the moment, though as I mentioned in an earlier post, internet and phones have been cut off at various points, and will be cut off again tonight from 1am-9am for reasons that will become clearer further down.

It's been a pretty intense week, with protests all over the city. Initially the protests were more or less focused at Sule Pagoda (beside City Hall) and Hledan Junction (close to the 3rd level educational centres) but as the week progressed, the protests have become more decentralised, with smaller clusters in more locations, for example at the embassies, UN offices and so on. The groundswell is still enormous though, and the viewpoint unanimous.

Off the back of that, there is also an immense civil disobedience movement (CDM), ranging from government officials, teachers, doctors, ward officers and such refusing to work, to supporting those protesting in various capacities. I have been taking part myself, either in the protests themselves, or donating or handing out food and water to those protesting.

In terms of the overall picture of what is happening on the ground, there is surprisingly little coverage in the international press from what I can see, other than general "what does the coup mean for Myanmar" type reports, but in broad strokes (simply because there is too much to mention)

Last Tuesday, the police started using rubber bullets and water cannon as part of crowd control. On Tuesday however, in Naypyidaw, a police officer shot live bullets at young people who were peacefully protesting the military coup. A 19-year-old girl (Mya Thwae Thwae Khine) was shot in head (live round) as she took shelter from the water cannons behind a bus shelter. Her life support was turned off earlier today.

Yesterday, the junta have revoked laws protecting civilians meaning they can enter homes without a warrant and arrest and detain people indefinitely without due recourse to the law.

Two days ago, the government released 23,000 prisoners from prison. Since then, trucks have been seen dropping off paid thugs (prisoners) in neighbourhoods throughout Yangon, to cause trouble and creating chaos. Local communities have responded in kind, coordinating community watches, chasing away or catching the intruders, barricading streets (my street now has a bamboo palisade fence at each end).

The police have been going into townships at night trying to round up 'dissidents' - basically those who have been taking part in the CDM, or who were part of the election process last November. Again, the local communities have responded in kind by preventing said arrests, often by binding the officers and frogmarching them back out of the townships. Two nights ago, for example, the police came to a neighbouring street of mine to arrest a teacher who had been part of observing the voting process last November, and most of the men in my township took to the streets with makeshift weapons to prevent said preventing illegal arrests.

For the most part there does seem to be a sense of it being a stalemate to a degree, but as I’m typing this, I'm getting reports of tanks and troops passing through Insein (township to the north of me, and it's 10pm here, for reference). All comms are supposedly being cut off at 1am (friends working in telecoms have reported that they have been ordered to do so) and that's presumably to prevent mass communication about what is about to happen next, so tomorrow sounds ominous.

I don't know what your personal circumstances are there Mike, but would you think about leaving? Or do you feel the situation will calm?
If you did want to go, would it still be easy to leave?

Tokyo

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't know what your personal circumstances are there Mike, but would you think about leaving? Or do you feel the situation will calm?
If you did want to go, would it still be easy to leave?

Trying not to tun the thread into my personal blog, but to answer your question, could I leave at this moment, probably not. The airport has been completely shut down and taken over by the military, and I believe that Myanmar has been on every pilot's no-fly list for a week now. Though I believe they are organising relief/repatriation flights shortly for expats who want to leave - unsurprising, as the Tatmadaw are not fond of foreigners here.

As to my own personal situation, I'm not married, don't have kids, so that only person I have to consider in all this is myself. That being said, here has been home for quite a while, and the people I am close to are here and it wouldn't sit well with me to just walk away from them like that. So I'll be staying.

Tokyo

Military making up new laws on a daily basis:

Internet:

I don't have a copy of the original document for this, but a few days ago, the military junta put forward a bill that would give it sweeping powers to access user data, block websites, order internet shutdowns, and imprison critics and officials at noncomplying companies.

Some of the highlights of the law are as follows:

1. All telecommunication service providers (or internet service providers) must establish a storage facility (or data-center) at a location assigned by the Ministry of Transport and Telecommunication. (This means that the ISPs must have a data-center at the location specified by the ministry).
2. All telecommunication service providers must promptly intercept, remove, destroy or suspend any type of information upon request by the ministry.
3. All telecommunication companies must withhold the data of the users for up to 3 years.
4. Upon suspicion of breach of the Cyber Security Law, any user or the device that was used can be investigated by the authority.
5. The union governance council (the military coup government) can assign an individual or a group of individuals with the authority to intercept the data of a suspected person or organization. All telecommunication service providers must prepare for such an interception beforehand.
6. The ministry or any authorities designated by the ministry can monitor any online service at its own discretion.
7. The ministry can suspend any online service, comprehend any telecommunication device, and banning any online service permanently at the discretion of the Union Governance Council (the military coup government).
8. An individual in violation of the Cyber Security Law can be imprisoned for a sentence of up to 3 years or a fine not exceeding 10,000,000 Kyats (equivalent to around 7000 USD) or both.

On Personal Freedom:



Section 5 of the Citizens' Personal Freedom and Security Law (Nai Lut Lone Law); 7 and 8 were canceled at 8 o'clock.

With the repeal of Section 5, the ward and village administrators are no longer required as witnesses in the arrest.

Section 7 has been repealed, allowing for more than 24 hours of detention without a court order.

With the repeal of Article 8, there is no need for arrest warrants.

In other words, military can enter your home at any time, for whatever reason. Any guess in your home needs to be registered.

On protesting any of this (released today):







(in other words, anybody involved in any form of protest can be locked up for up to 20 years)

bodice ripper

My father is in Yangon. I am not thrilled