The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

hatrickpatrick

blanch152 wrote: »

It is the sneering use of the word "partitionist" that is insulting, particularly the way it is used on here. You probably don't get that either, given your self-admitted lack of empathy for different views.

You're asking people to have "respect" for a political ideology which is almost entirely rooted in supremacist bigotry. The scumbag unionists aren't the few bad apples, the decent unionists are the needles in the haystack.

The state of Northern Ireland was designed with state-sanctioned discrimination and bigotry built in, right from the beginning. The gerrymandering, the denying of votes to less well off demographics, the choice of electoral system explicitly for the purpose of disenfranchising half of the population, the discrimination in relation to jobs, housing, education, and healthcare all with the backing of the tinpot 'government', and the militant, bigoted police force designed to protect it all.

That's what Unionism spent decade after decade defending. That's why so many people have absolutely zero respect for it.

Christ, one of Unionism's biggest annual celebrations, the 12th of July, literally celebrates a battle victory which allowed a minority of the population to begin its systematic subjugation of the majority.

This is the root from which Unionism as an ideology grew, and it is mired in that sentiment to this very day.

Am I suggesting that the majority of Unionists would like to turn the clock back to undo the civil rights movement's victories? Not necessarily. But Unionist leadership and the very ideology itself is so deeply embedded in that very objective - maintaining supremacy and dominance over an unwilling demographic - that it's very, very difficult not to regard those who choose to align themselves with the ideology as being, for a large part, culpable in perpetuating bigotry.

The police beating the sh!t out of a protester who was demanding equal access to housing, healthcare and employment will forever symbolise what Unionism as an ideology stands for. Frankly, if the Unionists of today want to break with this tainted image, they need a root and branch rebrand.

Unionism itself has always been an oppressive force on this island. It deserves no more respect than the Confederacy of the United States. I for one cannot for the life of me understand how anyone with any shred of decency can align themselves with a movement built entirely upon the total subjugation of millions of other humans.

blanch152

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

You're asking people to have "respect" for a political ideology which is almost entirely rooted in supremacist bigotry. The scumbag unionists aren't the few bad apples, the decent unionists are the needles in the haystack.

The state of Northern Ireland was designed with state-sanctioned discrimination and bigotry built in, right from the beginning. The gerrymandering, the denying of votes to less well off demographics, the choice of electoral system explicitly for the purpose of disenfranchising half of the population, the discrimination in relation to jobs, housing, education, and healthcare all with the backing of the tinpot 'government', and the militant, bigoted police force designed to protect it all.

That's what Unionism spent decade after decade defending. That's why so many people have absolutely zero respect for it.

Christ, one of Unionism's biggest annual celebrations, the 12th of July, literally celebrates a battle victory which allowed a minority of the population to begin its systematic subjugation of the majority.

This is the root from which Unionism as an ideology grew, and it is mired in that sentiment to this very day.

Am I suggesting that the majority of Unionists would like to turn the clock back to undo the civil rights movement's victories? Not necessarily. But Unionist leadership and the very ideology itself is so deeply embedded in that very objective - maintaining supremacy and dominance over an unwilling demographic - that it's very, very difficult not to regard those who choose to align themselves with the ideology as being, for a large part, culpable in perpetuating bigotry.

The police beating the sh!t out of a protester who was demanding equal access to housing, healthcare and employment will forever symbolise what Unionism as an ideology stands for. Frankly, if the Unionists of today want to break with this tainted image, they need a root and branch rebrand.

Unionism itself has always been an oppressive force on this island. It deserves no more respect than the Confederacy of the United States. I for one cannot for the life of me understand how anyone with any shred of decency can align themselves with a movement built entirely upon the total subjugation of millions of other humans.

You obviously didn't read my post.

The use of the "partitionist" label by Francie and a few others to describe people who are in favour of a united Ireland, but want to see more evidence of people working together up North is what I have an issue with. It is sneering and is another exercise in labelling the other to dehumanise.

It would be funny (if the issue wasn't so serious) to see you wallowing in wrongs of a century ago, and celebrations of centuries before that, when we have Francie and others imploring us to put aside the much more recent actions of the PIRA. Let me be absolutely clear, the sooner the DUP is off the pitch, the better, the last remnants of the sectarians on that side. That they be joined as quickly by Sinn Fein would be all the better to rid us of the sectarians that claim to speak for us.

Democracy has righted the wrongs of the police beating the sh!t out of a protester who was demanding equal access to housing, healthcare and employment, but nobody has righted the wrongs of the PIRA terrorising their own communities dishing out punishment beatings and kneecappings in their thousands. Not even a proper apology from their cheerleaders in Sinn Fein.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You obviously didn't read my post.

The use of the "partitionist" label by Francie and a few others to describe people who are in favour of a united Ireland, but want to see more evidence of people working together up North is what I have an issue with. It is sneering and is another exercise in labelling the other to dehumanise.

It would be funny (if the issue wasn't so serious) to see you wallowing in wrongs of a century ago, and celebrations of centuries before that, when we have Francie and others imploring us to put aside the much more recent actions of the PIRA. Let me be absolutely clear, the sooner the DUP is off the pitch, the better, the last remnants of the sectarians on that side. That they be joined as quickly by Sinn Fein would be all the better to rid us of the sectarians that claim to speak for us.

Democracy has righted the wrongs of the police beating the sh!t out of a protester who was demanding equal access to housing, healthcare and employment, but nobody has righted the wrongs of the PIRA terrorising their own communities dishing out punishment beatings and kneecappings in their thousands. Not even a proper apology from their cheerleaders in Sinn Fein.

A 'label' would be Partitionist with a capital 'P'.

Over sensitivity to a perfectly legitimate descriptive word is not my problem. I have no issue being described as partitionist while I await a proper discussion on a UI. I.E. I don't want a poll right now or tomorrow.

I object to partitionism as an ideology and make no bones about that. If you see that as sneering, again, that is your issue. I am no more sneering than I am when I object to and debate with unionism or communism or capitalism etc.

You are currently partitionist blanch and if you think 'unity of people' is ever going to happen on the constitutional status when partition was designed to keep a certain constitutional status, then you are a deluded partitionist imo.

batman75

Francie you and I are not destined to agree on matters regarding SF. You worship at the altar of Gerry and I hate SF/IRA with a passion. The one point I will make and maybe you might just agree is on hypocrisy. My point is Reynolds/Ahern both wanted the Unionists to go into government with SF in NI. Yet south of the border political parties are loath to go into government with SF. That must make us a laughing stock in Unionists eyes. That doesn't bother me but it is a fair point I think.

blanch152

batman75 wrote: »

Francie you and I are not destined to agree on matters regarding SF. You worship at the altar of Gerry and I hate SF/IRA with a passion. The one point I will make and maybe you might just agree is on hypocrisy. My point is Reynolds/Ahern both wanted the Unionists to go into government with SF in NI. Yet south of the border political parties are loath to go into government with SF. That must make us a laughing stock in Unionists eyes. That doesn't bother me but it is a fair point I think.

It is a fair criticism of FF and FG when coming from Unionists, not from any other quarter.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A 'label' would be Partitionist with a capital 'P'.

Over sensitivity to a perfectly legitimate descriptive word is not my problem. I have no issue being described as partitionist while I await a proper discussion on a UI. I.E. I don't want a poll right now or tomorrow.

I object to partitionism as an ideology and make no bones about that. If you see that as sneering, again, that is your issue. I am no more sneering than I am when I object to and debate with unionism or communism or capitalism etc.

You are currently partitionist blanch and if you think 'unity of people' is ever going to happen on the constitutional status when partition was designed to keep a certain constitutional status, then you are a deluded partitionist imo.

If you favour a united Ireland at some point in the future, by definition, you are not a partitionist.

FrancieBrady

batman75 wrote: »

Francie you and I are not destined to agree on matters regarding SF. You worship at the altar of Gerry and I hate SF/IRA with a passion.

I don't worship at anyone's altar. Adams was as fallible as any politician. In fact, I offered the opinion that I thought he should have resigned over the Liam affair, at the time. And I criticise SF when I think they deserve it...most recently, the funeral and GDPR issues.

The one point I will make and maybe you might just agree is on hypocrisy. My point is Reynolds/Ahern both wanted the Unionists to go into government with SF in NI. Yet south of the border political parties are loath to go into government with SF. That must make us a laughing stock in Unionists eyes. That doesn't bother me but it is a fair point I think.

I would agree but am perplexed as to why it doesn't bother you. Are people in NI some sort of 2nd class variety of citizen that it doesn't bother you that they are treated in this way?

batman75

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I would agree but am perplexed as to why it doesn't bother you. Are people in NI some sort of 2nd class variety of citizen that it doesn't bother you that they are treated in this way?

What Unionists think about how we form our Governments down south doesn't bother me. That's the point I was making. I don't see that people in NI are treated as second class citizens. You have completely misread what I wrote if your coming up with the piece I quote here. The main parties came together in NI to form a Government.

I hate to see SF in Government anywhere. There are too many unanswered questions surrounding them.

FrancieBrady

batman75 wrote: »

What Unionists think about how we form our Governments down south doesn't bother me. That's the point I was making. I don't see that people in NI are treated as second class citizens. You have completely misread what I wrote if your coming up with the piece I quote here. The main parties came together in NI to form a Government.

I hate to see SF in Government anywhere. There are too many unanswered questions surrounding them.

The behaviour of Dublin governments since partition has been because they saw NI as second class citizens. We had a constitutional onus to treat them as Irish people in a territory we disputed.

But second best, put up with it, was always the attitude.

That has come back to bite them massively as the cozy power swap has been disrupted forcing them to merge/coalesce to cling to it.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

If you favour a united Ireland at some point in the future, by definition, you are not a partitionist.

If you stand in the way of ending partition you are partitionist. It doesn't really matter what you really are or pretend to really be. Not to me anyhow.

Fann Linn

Continuity Greens wish to remove the Irish language from schools down South now so as to make foreign people more welcome and not excluded.

These Greens are #notanormalparty.

nigeldaniel

Once again the entire battalion of Sf TDs left the Dail before an important vote ... And did not reilise they were doing so. Do Sf supporters really appreciate the damage this does to the country as a whole. Or are they all getting their jollies from the chaos this causes down the road.

FrancieBrady

nigeldaniel wrote: »

Once again the entire battalion of Sf TDs left the Dail before an important vote ... And did not reilise they were doing so. Do Sf supporters really appreciate the damage this does to the country as a whole. Or are they all getting their jollies from the chaos this causes down the road.

????

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

????

They left the Dáil the other night before a vote relating to the special criminal court. I assume thinking business had finished for the night or reasons of their own. Strange given their historic position on it. Though I think they abstain now ?

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

They left the Dáil the other night before a vote relating to the special criminal court. I assume thinking business had finished for the night or reasons of their own. Strange given their historic position on it. Though I think they abstain now ?

They said they wouldn't oppose it as it is now the subject of a review. And they didn't.

FF/FG trying to sensationalise over it again.

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

They left the Dáil the other night before a vote relating to the special criminal court. I assume thinking business had finished for the night or reasons of their own. Strange given their historic position on it. Though I think they abstain now ?

If they weren't there for the vote, that allows for constructive ambiguity, they can tell their members they oppose it, they can tell the media they didn't oppose it and not to criticise them.

Having it every which way as always with their usual cynical approach.

FrancieBrady

Calleary's limp attempt to make something of SF abstaining on the SCC was funny.

'Yes you did Lousie, yes you did'. I was waiting for the schoolyard foot stomping; 'you did you did you did you did' to follow but the interviewer cut him off, mercifully for him.

ineedeuro

Deleted User wrote: »

They left the Dáil the other night before a vote relating to the special criminal court. I assume thinking business had finished for the night or reasons of their own. Strange given their historic position on it. Though I think they abstain now ?

It confirms again that Sinn Fein are still mixed up with serious crime in Ireland. They are afraid to even stay and vote which is their duty to the people who voted them in.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Calleary's limp attempt to make something of SF abstaining on the SCC was funny.

'Yes you did Lousie, yes you did'. I was waiting for the schoolyard foot stomping; 'you did you did you did you did' to follow but the interviewer cut him off, mercifully for him.

Cut O’Reilly off on a few occasions too F.

Didn’t let her build up a head of steam…….. but the collie started barking at that point Francie, so you didn’t hear it.

ineedeuro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Calleary's limp attempt to make something of SF abstaining on the SCC was funny.

'Yes you did Lousie, yes you did'. I was waiting for the schoolyard foot stomping; 'you did you did you did you did' to follow but the interviewer cut him off, mercifully for him.

Yes Sinn Fein trying to break up the political system in Ireland is "funny". They are voted in to represent the people of Ireland. Not to pick & choose what they decide they want to vote on. Especially when that vote is to stop criminals.

This was a statement to the criminal community that Sinn Fein back them.

FrancieBrady

ineedeuro wrote: »

Yes Sinn Fein trying to break up the political system in Ireland is "funny". They are voted in to represent the people of Ireland. Not to pick & choose what they decide they want to vote on. Especially when that vote is to stop criminals.

This was a statement to the criminal community that Sinn Fein back them.

You'll be telling us next nobody has ever abstained on a vote.
So Mary Robinson, the ICCL, Amnesty Int. Etc were all sending messages to the criminal fraternity by objecting to these special powers?

Anyway, ignoring the attempt to sensationalise tanother nothing burger, I'd imagine the Gardai ignoring emergemcy calls sends a clearer signal to the crims...maybe this huff about the shinners was orchestrated to take attention away from that?

Brendan Bendar

ineedeuro wrote: »

Yes Sinn Fein trying to break up the political system in Ireland is "funny". They are voted in to represent the people of Ireland. Not to pick & choose what they decide they want to vote on. Especially when that vote is to stop criminals.

This was a statement to the criminal community that Sinn Fein back them.

Excellent post, on the button.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Cut O’Reilly off on a few occasions too F.

Didn’t let her build up a head of steam…….. but the collie started barking at that point Francie, so you didn’t hear it.

Brendi getting his very own FM signal again...that nobody else seems to get.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Brendi getting his very own FM signal again...that nobody else seems to get.

Must be a warped signal up in the stoney grey ground Mr F.

Could be maybe the boffins up in Connolly House are skewing the feed.

Bit of a bleed into the Free state.

Anyway Lookit don’t let the SCC scuttle poor Proinsías, we’ ll get a jury of ‘good republicans’ to ensure he gets the ‘right result’.

Claire was a lot more authoritive than usual this morning.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Must be a warped signal up in the stoney grey ground Mr F.

Could be maybe the boffins up in Connolly House are skewing the feed.

Bit of a bleed into the Free state.

Anyway Lookit don’t let the SCC scuttle poor Proinsías, we’ ll get a jury of ‘good republicans’ to ensure he gets the ‘right result’.

Claire was a lot more authoritive than usual this morning.

Calleary reduced to 'you did Louise...you did you did'. Claire got sick listening to hom and moved on.

Brendan Bendar

Lookit…..Good Republicans


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/the-ira-gang-behind-jerry-mccabe-s-killing-where-are-they-now-1.4586954


Say no more, could remember these lads but couldn’t vote in the Dáil

Cullinane was right, they have no respect for the State.

blanch152

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Lookit…..Good Republicans


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/the-ira-gang-behind-jerry-mccabe-s-killing-where-are-they-now-1.4586954


Say no more, could remember these lads but couldn’t vote in the Dáil

Cullinane was right, they have no respect for the State.

I am sure that the lads got low-interest loans via the Northern Bank to pay for their resettlement.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Lookit…..Good Republicans


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/the-ira-gang-behind-jerry-mccabe-s-killing-where-are-they-now-1.4586954


Say no more, could remember these lads but couldn’t vote in the Dáil

Cullinane was right, they have no respect for the State.

If the 'state' wants respect maybe it shouldn't be signing agreements that have amnesties for prisoners on both sides of the conflict/war and then whinging about both sides availing of those amnesties?

As you might say yourself...'you can't have it every which way'.

What happened in Adare was wrong as was everything that happened in the conflict/war but that conflict/war is long over.

batman75

FrancieBrady wrote: »

conflict/war is long over.

If this is so why was Denis Donaldson taken out in 2015? Indeed in this year both Jock Davison and Kevin McGuigan were also murdered.

Until Sinn Fein satisfactorily answer questions relating to IRA activities then their future will continue to be shrouded in controversy.

batman75

batman75 wrote: »

If this is so why was Denis Donaldson taken out in 2015? Indeed in this year both Jock Davison and Kevin McGuigan were also murdered.

Until Sinn Fein satisfactorily answer questions relating to IRA activities then their future will continue to be shrouded in controversy.

Denis D met his end in Donegal because he was about to reveal who the ultimate mole was in the PIRA. Well, he had already done so. The Boston Tapes.


This remains the finest insight into the PIRA (it doesn't deal with the sex crimes, and the import of ecstasy tablets and hash through the Dublin branch to fund the cause in the late 90's).