NFL Draft 2021

eagle eye

Christy42 wrote:

A separate topic is what are the Broncos waiting for? How much do they want to rebuild before getting a QB to win with. They had Fields fall to him or Mac Jones if you prefer. They went with a corner which is not a big need. I think some contracts are a year out but at what point do they try and win games? Teddy won't do it but should be better than Lock.

I said last night when they took Surtain that I fancy they have a deal with the Packers for Rodgers. I suspect that deal includes Kyle Fuller which then makes the Surtain pick a very sensible move.

Blut2

The Packers aren't going to be terribly interested in Kyle Fuller when they just drafted a CB in the first round. He'll sit under Kevin King (whos on a 1 year deal) this season and be the long term starter opposite Jaire Alexander.

And they're also already struggling with cap space as things are. If they were handing out $10m/year deals then the defensive line is where they'd be starting, not the fully staffed CB position.

A big reason Fuller even went to the Broncos too was to reunite with Fangio by all accounts, its unlikely he'll leave.

Xavi6

I know it’s a small issue but Pitts will wear 8 as a TE with the Falcons and it just looks wrong. The game’s gone etc.

Realt Dearg Sec

eagle eye wrote: »

I said last night when they took Surtain that I fancy they have a deal with the Packers for Rodgers. I suspect that deal includes Kyle Fuller which then makes the Surtain pick a very sensible move.

Saw a tweet earlier that DK Sportsbook have pulled down their NFC North Division winner odds, and their AFC West winner odds. Make of that what you will.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

Brady was a sixth round pick because they all got it wrong, not for the first time either, take a look at Fran Tarkenton, Kurt Warner, Joe Montana, Dan Fouts and Norm Van Brocklin for example and there's more HOF'amers and many who were just below HOF standard.
And Andy Dalton was an excellent QB for a few years too.

Brady is an exception, a unicorn. Players with his skillset coming out of college don't normally become even a starter level. Chasing the exception while ignoring all the failures is very bad process.

You love to point to wins - what did Dalton ever win? Like most QBs with his skillset he can do well when he has the support around him but when it isn't there he adds little.

Who are these explosive QB's you speak of outside of Mahomes and Josh Allen?

Herbert, Lamar, Burrow, Watson, Wilson, Lawrence, maybe even Rodgers. They are all far more explosive QBs than Jones is - whether with their arm, running, or both.

I don't see any who have shown anything in the playoffs, of those in their twenties.

Even if you want to narrow it down to playoff success, there is far more recent success of mobile and explosive QBs in their twenties in the playoffs than those in their twenties who are pocket QBs with an average arm.

Well based off of that you haven't a clue because you haven't noticed his good movement around the pocket, his quick release, his fast check downs. Only question is arm strength much like Brady had.
What I look for first in a QB before any skills is decision making and Jones makes good decisions like throwing the ball away if he has the opportunity, like taking the sack and preventing injury to himself and not trying to throw a ridic ball and getting picked. If you don't have that you have no chance of becoming a great or even very good QB in the NFL.
He's so like Brady in so many ways. What we don't know is how good his leadership qualities are, hopefully they are very good and based off of everything he has done since last night he's off to a very promising start with his team and the fans.
I'm very hopeful but realise these things don't always work out but a guy who did what he did in the biggest game he's played to date gives me a lot of hope.

All those positives you mentioned are why I don't hate the pick at 15 (I've said this repeatedly). He is a good college QB but will continue to need his scheme and surrounding cast to carry him - he won't be carrying them like other QBs in the league can.

The problem is that due to his physical limitations, there is no margin for error with him. If any of your positives aren't as good as they appear he won't be able for the NFL. I don't see him as having a narrow range of outcomes like some mentioned - sure his ceiling is low but his floor is the worst of all of the QBs that went in the first. We've seen it for the last decade how many similar QBs fail in the NFL, many never even becoming starters.

Christy42

eagle eye wrote: »

You see the thing is that those wheels aren't very useful for most when it comes to the playoffs and you meet premium defenses.
I only quoted a bit of your post, it's a very good post even though I'm not in agreement with much if it but it all comes down to the playoffs for me.
As regards Jones, I believe he will be a hell if a lot better than Foles, Goff etc.
I'm hoping he'll be at worst Matty Ice level.
Again I can be wrong about these things but I really was impressed by the guy last season and it's how quick he does everything that impressed me.

Matty Ice would be good.

Lamar beat Tannehill. Mahomes has beaten Tannehill and Baker in the play offs. Certainly Tannehill and Baker haven't made a SB but they haven't lost to pocket passers either. Mobile vs mobile means a mobile QB will lose in the play offs. Ben and Rivers were the slowest in the AFC playoffs this year. Both lost immediately.

Movement is not a guarantee but as you say nothing is. I should say that I think that it is a good pick. It is probably the second best landing spot for a QB after the 49ers. You have a good defense. You have receivers this year even if it is still a weakness. You have Bill.

Finally you have a good team and coaches and so are unlikely to get a better pick in a year with a deep QB class. Take your shot, if it works out great. If it doesn't you are unlikely to get someone better in the next few years anyway so what is the harm.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote:

Herbert, Lamar, Burrow, Watson, Wilson, Lawrence, maybe even Rodgers. They are all far more explosive QBs than Jones is - whether with their arm, running, or both.

Crikey you put in a rookie.
You also put in last year's first round pick who played 10 games. You are just a joker.
You put in Herbert whose had one season.
You put in Lamar who has failed to perform in the postseason, Watson who really hasn't shown anything when the chips are down.
Rodgers and Wilson are in the NFC.

Christy42

eagle eye wrote: »

Crikey you put in a rookie.
You also put in last year's first round pick who played 10 games. You are just a joker.
You put in Herbert whose had one season.
You put in Lamar who has failed to perform in the postseason, Watson who really hasn't shown anything when the chips are down.
Rodgers and Wilson are in the NFC.

I think Wilson refers to the Jets. Rodgers follows your own Broncos prediction.

Given your requirements do you just hate every QB outside of Mahomes in the AFC? He is the only one to make the super bowl.


And Cam and Ben actually. Forgot about them but Ben is old and injured and you didn't like Cam with the Pats.

adrian522

Guys if you can't treat each other with respect in your comments then please don't post.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

Crikey you put in a rookie.
You also put in last year's first round pick who played 10 games. You are just a joker.
You put in Herbert whose had one season.
You put in Lamar who has failed to perform in the postseason, Watson who really hasn't shown anything when the chips are down.
Rodgers and Wilson are in the NFC.

Serious goalpost moving going on there - you asked for explosive QBs in their twenties in the AFC, you didn't note a certain minimum game or playoff requirements.

The fact that they are all young makes my point for me, it shows how the game is moving and how unsuccessful young pocket passers like Jones have been.

Since the CBA in 2011 (when practice rules changed) there have been 25 QBs drafted in the 1st round. 11 of those were given a 2nd contract by the teams that drafted them but only one of those QBs is immobile: Jared Goff - traded even before he hit the dollar value of the extension.

Jones can be successful but he'll be an outlier among young players. The pure pocket passers from a different era and are dying out - most young guys end up being backups at best.

The_Honeybadger

Does anybody know what time do the actual picks start tonight? I see coverage is from 12, might stay up for the second round anyway if it doesn’t run too late.

BonnieSituation

Picks seem to be from 12.

Itssoeasy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Picks seem to be from 12.

Hopefully they are because that pre draft stuff while was nice, they could have shortened it.

The_Honeybadger

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Picks seem to be from 12.

Good man, can’t stand the waffle beforehand

BonnieSituation

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Good man, can’t stand the waffle beforehand

They got straight into it last night at 1.

The pre draft shows seem to be the 'preview'

Looks like I'll still be watching snooker at 12 though.

el Fenomeno

BonnieSituation wrote: »

They got straight into it last night at 1.

I don't think that's true. It was a good 15 or 20 minutes before Goodell announced the Jaguars were on the clock.

raze_them_all_

el Fenomeno wrote: »

That's questionable logic, at best.

The only high profile early retirement due to injury in the last few years was Andrew Luck, who was seen as the best pocket QB prospect maybe ever?

Robert Griffin was retired by his coach and club

TheDoctor

el Fenomeno wrote: »

I don't think that's true. It was a good 15 or 20 minutes before Goodell announced the Jaguars were on the clock.

Was about ten past 1 the Jags went on the clock last night.

Be less ceremony tonight so hopefully starts at 12

Itssoeasy

TheDoctor wrote: »

Was about ten past 1 the Jags went on the clock last night.

Be less ceremony tonight so hopefully starts at 12

Yes.

Itssoeasy

Love the audio from last night.

BonnieSituation

el Fenomeno wrote: »

I don't think that's true. It was a good 15 or 20 minutes before Goodell announced the Jaguars were on the clock.

It wasn't that long at all. 10 past one is on time as per American sports.

BonnieSituation

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Love the audio from last night.

Would love to see more of that.

Itssoeasy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It wasn't that long at all. 10 past one is on time as per American sports.

If it was ten minutes it was a long ten minutes.

Itssoeasy

Old Connie fox in the background on stage. Good stuff.

Mr. Guappa

Found Michael Irvin ridiculously annoying on the red carpet bit last night.

But, on the plus side Melissa Stark was a massive upgrade over Deion Sanders and his tired shtick for the stage side interviews with the latest draftee.

el Fenomeno

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It wasn't that long at all. 10 past one is on time as per American sports.

Ah right, so they didn't get straight into it at 1 then.

Itssoeasy

Jesus my wifi shat itself and I was wondering would I see any of the draft but it’s back.

Itssoeasy

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Ah right, so they didn't get straight into it at 1 then.

No it didn’t.

Itssoeasy

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Found Michael Irvin ridiculously annoying on the red carpet bit last night.

But, on the plus side Melissa Stark was a massive upgrade over Deion Sanders and his tired shtick for the stage side interviews with the latest draftee.

Melissa stark is great and her NFL 360 series is great. Irvin is okay in small doses. Hopefully Kay adams is back next year.

Itssoeasy

Some canton members in the house.