Importing a classic from NI now

mgn

KevRossi wrote: »

Revenue will soon have to define what length of time the car would need to be registered in NI before it can be considered as an NI car. Maybe 12 months, or something similar.

I also cannot fathom how Revenue are going to simply wave goodbye to the billions that are earned by VRT from 2nd hand cars sourced in GB. Once COVID is over they'll certainly need the cash and I can see some sort of exemptions being made on VAT.

There will still be plenty of revenue from VRT from the Irish car dealers, the are still going to be importing them.
The only difference now is it will stop people going over sourcing their own cars cutting out the middle man.

reubenreuben

How can a NI dealer determine who will buy his cars? Someone from north or south, he can never know.

Over the past few years I've bought cars in NI that were originally new in GB.

Brexit hasn't changed this.

I said in a previous post that big dealers like Charles Hurst import over 40% of their cars from GB.

Always been like this, some probably get exported to the South but they don't import them from GB specifically to sell to the South.

unkel

reubenreuben wrote: »

How can a NI dealer determine who will buy his cars? Someone from north or south, he can never know.

Doesn't matter. The NI dealer is not responsible if they sell a car in NI.

The person who actually imports the car from NI to ROI is responsible for duty / VAT if it is a GB car originally and only brought in to NI this year. Could be that same dealer, could be a private person, could be a ROI garage

reubenreuben

unkel wrote: »

Doesn't matter. The NI dealer is not responsible if they sell a car in NI.

The person who actually imports the car from NI to ROI is responsible for duty / VAT if it is a GB car originally and only brought in to NI this year. Could be that same dealer, could be a private person, could be a ROI garage

No. Your wrong there. Stop writing untruths please. It's only if the car was not registered in NI that the above applies.

This discussion is going around in circles.

unkel

reubenreuben wrote: »

This discussion is going around in circles.

Agreed

reubenreuben wrote: »

No. Your wrong there. Stop writing untruths please. It's only if the car was not registered in NI that the above applies.

I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right, but think about it for a second. If what you say is true then the whole brexit is a farce. Just bring whatever in from GB into NI, register it if you have to (like with cars) and then export it on to ROI, and no import duty or VAT is due?

Just makes no sense...

Isambard

unkel wrote: »

Agreed



I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right, but think about it for a second. If what you say is true then the whole brexit is a farce. Just bring whatever in from GB into NI, register it if you have to (like with cars) and then export it on to ROI, and no import duty or VAT is due?

Just makes no sense...

i agree but that is the deal. Once it's properly brought to NI , it can be taken to the Republic with no extra taxes. However I suspect it won't be that simple. We shall see.

80sDiesel

It’s very simple.

VAT is charged on used cars going from GB to NI as NI is in the EU customs territory. Paid on import.

The complicated answer is that NI can’t avail of the margin scheme on second hand goods thus VAT payable. Exception is if the U.K. seller is VAT registered ,(buyer and seller)

on_the_roots

unkel wrote: »

Just bring whatever in from GB into NI, register it if you have to (like with cars) and then export it on to ROI, and no import duty or VAT is due?

Just makes no sense...

Yes, exactly like this. There is no specification about how long a used car must be registered in NI before being imported to ROI without paying VAT.

Basically NI is now a bridge to import used cars from GB bypassing VAT, as long as this is legally transferred to NI in the middle.

I believe at some point Revenue in ROI will specify a minimum time for a car to be registered in NI but this is currently not the case.

Esel

Presumably, the dealers in the north will be factoring the VAT they paid when importing into their retail price.

unkel

Esel wrote: »

Presumably, the dealers in the north will be factoring the VAT they paid when importing into their retail price.

They didn't pay any VAT when importing...

Esel

unkel wrote: »

They didn't pay any VAT when importing...

Are you *sure* that is the current (2021) situation?

unkel

Yep, certain. Bring in a motor from England into NI and register it there and there is no import duty or VAT due.

80sDiesel

No import duty but VAT is payable unless GB seller is VAT registered (as is importer).

unkel

80sDiesel wrote: »

No import duty but VAT is payable unless GB seller is VAT registered (as is importer).

Woot? This is the classic cars forum, so we are talking second hand cars, right?

80sDiesel

Yep. It’s quite simple. Private buyer has to pay VAT on import from GB to NI. VAT registered buyer from VAT registered seller is the exception.

They can’t avail of the second hand margin scheme .

Probably deserve a sticky.

As below:

Second-hand goods margin scheme

Although there is scope within the EU to have a national margin scheme, HMRC’s policy paper sets out that this will not be possible for GB-NI movements from 1 January 2021.

This represents a significant previously unidentified commercial change for many businesses in NI who purchase from GB, notably the second-hand car dealer industry. We understand that HMRC are in ongoing discussions with Government Ministers on this point; however, the current position is that this will need to be raised directly with the European Commission

Isambard

unkel wrote: »

Woot? This is the classic cars forum, so we are talking second hand cars, right?

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/used-car-dealers-urge-clarity-over-new-fees-for-cross-border-trade-39970557.html

80sDiesel

Isambard wrote: »

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/used-car-dealers-urge-clarity-over-new-fees-for-cross-border-trade-39970557.html

Ah so they are going to reinstate the margin scheme. Guessing it’s not reinstated yet?

Isambard

80sDiesel wrote: »

No import duty but VAT is payable unless GB seller is VAT registered (as is importer).

i think I'm right in saying if they are registered, they then have to pay vat on the profit when they sell the car. non registered importers into NI pay VAt

unkel

Isambard wrote: »

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/used-car-dealers-urge-clarity-over-new-fees-for-cross-border-trade-39970557.html

It's a feckin sh1tstorm, so it is

"Northern Ireland dealers can import vehicles from Britain, then sell them on without the added cost, said Cecil Hetherington, managing director of Used Cars NI"

He would say that, wouldn't he

"people from the RoI Revenue are saying something different at the moment"

Isambard

i kind of get the feeling people will get a shock VRTing them!

It seems to me that all goods entering the EU area have to pay VAT and in the case of NI the border is the Irish Sea. Having done that, they can move the goods to RoI without further tax. The protocol is for NI to RoI goods, not GB to NI

galwaytt

from this article, the quote from Revenue: " We won’t permit cars to be routed through the North from Britain into the North and down here without the payment of VAT and customs duties where a dealer bringing in cars through Dublin Port would have to pay VAT and customs duty,"



https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0208/1195704-uk-car-imports/

unkel

Exactly. I've been saying that all along, but oh no, I was wrong and spreading false information

Isambard

galwaytt wrote: »

from this article, the quote from Revenue: " We won’t permit cars to be routed through the North from Britain into the North and down here without the payment of VAT and customs duties where a dealer bringing in cars through Dublin Port would have to pay VAT and customs duty,"



https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0208/1195704-uk-car-imports/

It's hard to see how they will do that. If the UK don't collect the VAT, that's up to them, but whether UK VAT is paid or not is nothing to do with our Revenue. I suppose they could hold a car at the port or refuse to re-register it if there wasn't "VAT paid" receipt. They could claim it was not "properly imported" I guess

ELM327

Isambard wrote: »

It's hard to see how they will do that. If the UK don't collect the VAT, that's up to them, but whether UK VAT is paid or not is nothing to do with our Revenue. I suppose they could hold a car at the port or refuse to re-register it if there wasn't "VAT paid" receipt. They could claim it was not "properly imported" I guess

They dont care about VAT or sales tax in outside countries.
I imported from the US and had to pay vat before I could land the car in the country, even though I already paid sales tax in the US.

Isambard

well you'd expect to have to pay tax entering the EU but NI is treated as EU for tax purposes now.

How do you suggest they will not permit cars to enter as they state?

unkel

Whatever tax is paid in a country outside the EU (UK, USA, China, etc.) is not relevant for what tax is due here in Ireland.

ELM327

Isambard wrote: »

well you'd expect to have to pay tax entering the EU but NI is treated as EU for tax purposes now.

How do you suggest they will not permit cars to enter as they state?

Following current rules, there is no established mechanism.

unkel wrote: »

Whatever tax is paid in a country outside the EU (UK, USA, China, etc.) is not relevant for what tax is due here in Ireland.

Yes, that's my point. They don't (and won't) care about UK vat.

unkel

BUT NI seems to have a special status here where this doesn't apply

If you bring a car from the UK to NI you can register it there and not pay VAT. However if you subsequently bring it over to ROI and register it here, you will need to pay VAT

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

BUT NI seems to have a special status here where this doesn't apply

If you bring a car from the UK to NI you can register it there and not pay VAT. However if you subsequently bring it over to ROI and register it here, you will need to pay VAT

If it's an NI registered car you do not need to pay vat.
There's no mechanism to allow it

Isambard

and yet Revenue are saying they won't allow it. As far as I can see the only way they can achieve this is by not allowing the car to be re-registered, presumably they will say the car was not "properly imported to NI" as the VAT was not paid coming into the EU area..