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Importing a classic from NI now

  • 27-01-2021 12:10am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭ R1_Pete


    Hi Guys,

    I am strongly considering buying a classic (first one) as an interest in 2021 and something I’ve always wanted to do.

    With Brexit and the new rules, can anyone tell me definitively what the current situation is with NI registered vintage imports?

    Let’s say I purchase a car privately up north. £10,000 for sake of an example. It’s 30/40 years old.

    What charges are liable and how are they estimated? VRT is still not applicable on a vintage car? But will VAT & import duty be due?
    If so how is it calculated?

    And how is purchase price verified on a private sale?

    Cheers
    Pete


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭ turbocab


    R1_Pete wrote: »
    Hi Guys,

    I am strongly considering buying a classic (first one) as an interest in 2021 and something I’ve always wanted to do.

    With Brexit and the new rules, can anyone tell me definitively what the current situation is with NI registered vintage imports?

    Let’s say I purchase a car privately up north. £10,000 for sake of an example. It’s 30/40 years old.

    What charges are liable and how are they estimated? VRT is still not applicable on a vintage car? But will VAT & import duty be due?
    If so how is it calculated?

    And how is purchase price verified on a private sale?

    Cheers
    Pete
    As far as i know if the car was originally registered in NI.only 200vrt is to be paid.However if the car came from uk .vat at 21per cent is also to be charged


  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭ R1_Pete


    turbocab wrote: »
    As far as i know if the car was originally registered in NI.only 200vrt is to be paid.However if the car came from uk .vat at 21per cent is also to be charged

    Thanks,
    I’ll call revenue anyway - but do you know if it matters when the car was registered in NI?
    If it was imported from Uk to NI 10/12 years ago it’s considered NI?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    Revenue is your best bet, none of us know for certain, we're all trying to make sense of this unexpected situation. I think it's fair to say everyone thought a deal meant no change!


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,526 ✭✭✭✭ galwaytt


    Isambard wrote: »
    Revenue is your best bet, none of us know for certain, we're all trying to make sense of this unexpected situation. I think it's fair to say everyone thought a deal meant no change!

    No way, otherwise there'd never have been a need for a deal......

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    galwaytt wrote: »
    No way, otherwise there'd never have been a need for a deal......

    did the Brexit vote pass you by? That's why a deal was needed but people assumed that deal would mean no change, they were very wrong.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭ reubenreuben


    Isambard wrote: »
    did the Brexit vote pass you by? That's why a deal was needed but people assumed that deal would mean no change, they were very wrong.

    That's what most people thought including me but the Irish Gov also gave this the go ahead being part of the EU so did they know or not?
    As they have been sold a pup if so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,526 ✭✭✭✭ galwaytt


    Isambard wrote: »
    did the Brexit vote pass you by? That's why a deal was needed but people assumed that deal would mean no change, they were very wrong.

    it didn't pass me by at all: I import & export to/from the UK all day long. The very notion that Brexit would bring no change isn't believable.

    Back to OP.

    Very roughly, a 10k car bought in NI, assuming it's an actual NI car (and NOT a GB import into NI), the rules are effectively unchanged from before. If the car is a GB import into NI, you would be advised to work on the premise that Revenue may treat it effectively as UK import (via NI). May depend on how long it's been in NI. If for years, I'd not worry about it - but if it's recent, or specifically for sale (to RoI) buyers, Revenue have already said they will treat it as 'UK' car for customs purposes.

    This is my understanding of it:


    These two examples, assuming a €10,000 car, for both UK & NI purchases.

    542135.png


    I can distill it further, very roughly as follows :

    For NI classic imports, convert to Euro, add €200 VRT.

    For UK classic imports, take the Sterling price, add 50%, call it Euro

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭ reubenreuben


    galwaytt wrote: »
    it didn't pass me by at all: I import & export to/from the UK all day long. The very notion that Brexit would bring no change isn't believable.

    Back to OP.

    Very roughly, a 10k car bought in NI, assuming it's an actual NI car (and NOT a GB import into NI), the rules are effectively unchanged from before. If the car is a GB import into NI, you would be advised to work on the premise that Revenue may treat it effectively as UK import (via NI). May depend on how long it's been in NI. If for years, I'd not worry about it - but if it's recent, or specifically for sale (to RoI) buyers, Revenue have already said they will treat it as 'UK' car for customs purposes.

    This is my understanding of it:


    These two examples, assuming a €10,000 car, for both UK & NI purchases.

    542135.png


    I can distill it further, very roughly as follows :

    For NI classic imports, convert to Euro, add €200 VRT.

    For UK classic imports, take the Sterling price, add 50%, call it Euro

    Is there anywhere official that states revenue will do this on recently imported cars? Or is it just hear say?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,858 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Is there anywhere official that states revenue will do this on recently imported cars? Or is it just hear say?

    Cars that were imported this year from the UK into NI and are now sold on to ROI, are effectively UK cars and above harsh tax regime applies.

    Nobody seems to know for certain about UK cars imported into NI at the latest before the end of last year, but they might be ok (not attract import duty / VAT)

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭ reubenreuben


    unkel wrote: »
    Cars that were imported this year from the UK into NI and are now sold on to ROI, are effectively UK cars and above harsh tax regime applies.

    Nobody seems to know for certain about UK cars imported into NI at the latest before the end of last year, but they might be ok (not attract import duty / VAT)

    Unless registered first in Ni ?


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,858 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    No. If you bring a car into NI from the UK now and register it there first and then bring it into the ROI, it's a UK import and import duty and VAT are due. That bit is crystal clear.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    I'm not so sure that's right (the crystal clear bit especially)


  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭ reubenreuben


    unkel wrote: »
    No. If you bring a car into NI from the UK now and register it there first and then bring it into the ROI, it's a UK import and import duty and VAT are due. That bit is crystal clear.

    I'm sure thats not correct as buying from a Ni dealer would be affected by this. I called charles hurst in belfast a few weeks back and they import over 40% of their cars from GB. So if what you are saying is correct then all of those cars would have extra costs on top of vrt.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,858 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Yes. They are all UK import cars. If they make their way onto the ROI, import duty and VAT are due over here. I could be wrong of course, but I'm pretty confident I got this bit of the trade deal right, never mind the rest of it :p

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    unkel wrote: »
    No. If you bring a car into NI from the UK now and register it there first and then bring it into the ROI, it's a UK import and import duty and VAT are due. That bit is crystal clear.
    This is false, Unkle.


    The important distinction here is GB vs NI
    https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/brexit-for-individuals/importing-a-vehicle-from-great-britain-gb-or-northern-ireland.aspx



    From 1 January 2021 you may have to pay the following when you import a vehicle from Great Britain:
    If a vehicle is being imported from Northern Ireland, no import duty will apply but you may be liable to pay:
    • Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT)
    • VAT at 21% (only in respect of new vehicles).
    An electronic customs declaration will be required in advance of the vehicle arriving in the State.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,858 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    You're missing the step that a vehicle is imported from the UK into NI and then exported to ROI! As far as I can see that's the same as importing directly from the UK into ROI.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭ reubenreuben


    unkel wrote: »
    You're missing the step that a vehicle is imported from the UK into NI and then exported to ROI! As far as I can see that's the same as importing directly from the UK into ROI.

    Remember it's GB into NI.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    i think the way it will pan out is that a car would be duty free NI to RoI only if it it was new NI or was actually a GB car subsequently used in NI. This will run and run though, I can't see them letting Dealer's get away with bringing GB cars in via NI VAt free.


  • Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭ reubenreuben


    Isambard wrote: »
    i think the way it will pan out is that a car would be duty free NI to RoI only if it it was new NI or was actually a GB car subsequently used in NI. This will run and run though, I can't see them letting Dealer's get away with bringing GB cars in via NI VAt free.

    It's happening already though. Part of the deal. Ni dealerships would be ruined without buyers from the south


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    unkel wrote: »
    You're missing the step that a vehicle is imported from the UK into NI and then exported to ROI! As far as I can see that's the same as importing directly from the UK into ROI.
    There's no UK.


    It's GB to NI.
    Then NI to ROI.


    If it's an NI car there is no import duty or vat.
    Once the car is registered to NI correctly after leaving GB, then there is no vat etc on import.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    It's happening already though. Part of the deal. Ni dealerships would be ruined without buyers from the south
    from Revenue .ie "Note

    Importations of used cars from Great Britain into the State must be declared to customs and are liable to customs duty and VAT on importation. The routing of such importations through Northern Ireland to avoid EU requirements in relation to customs duty and VAT at import will not be permitted. "

    they'll be watching.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭ mgn


    Isambard wrote: »
    from Revenue .ie "Note

    Importations of used cars from Great Britain into the State must be declared to customs and are liable to customs duty and VAT on importation. The routing of such importations through Northern Ireland to avoid EU requirements in relation to customs duty and VAT at import will not be permitted. "

    they'll be watching.

    The can watch all the like, as ELM327 above correctly said,
    Once the car is registered in NI to a dealer there is no VAT on it crossing the border, business as usual for NI dealers.

    We seen the quick u turn on the double VAT a few weeks ago,


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,858 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Isambard wrote: »
    from Revenue .ie "Note

    Importations of used cars from Great Britain into the State must be declared to customs and are liable to customs duty and VAT on importation. The routing of such importations through Northern Ireland to avoid EU requirements in relation to customs duty and VAT at import will not be permitted. "

    they'll be watching.

    Exactly. Makes no difference if a private person or a dealer brings a car in from the UK / GB / England whatever the hell you want to call it via NI to ROI. VAT and import duty will be due as per GalwayTT's calculation. If a dealer doesn't charge it, he might get away with it until caught, then he will have to pay it anyway + interest + penalties

    Same as not self declaring income now...

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭ mgn


    unkel wrote: »
    Exactly. Makes no difference if a private person or a dealer brings a car in from the UK / GB / England whatever the hell you want to call it via NI to ROI. VAT and import duty will be due as per GalwayTT's calculation. If a dealer doesn't charge it, he might get away with it until caught, then he will have to pay it anyway + interest + penalties

    Same as not self declaring income now...

    So what you saying is that any car imported into NI from the UK after Jan 1st will have to Vat in the south.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,858 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Yes.

    Think about it. If it wasn't the case, NI would be a hotbed for exporting everything from the UK into the EU and avoiding all import duties and VAT. That just can not be the case.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭ mgn


    unkel wrote: »
    Yes.

    Think about it. If it wasn't the case, NI would be a hotbed for exporting everything from the UK into the EU and avoiding all import duties and VAT. That just can not be the case.

    And that what's going to happen,

    NI has the best of both worlds now, it is in both the UK and Europe now so has access to both markets.
    Its a win win for NI dealers now.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,858 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    I doubt that is what will happen. That would effectively mean the UK is still in the EU :p

    Traders in NI might think this is the case, but they are mistaken. The Revenue Commissioners will come calling in a few weeks, months or years :D

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    mgn wrote: »
    The can watch all the like, as ELM327 above correctly said,
    Once the car is registered in NI to a dealer there is no VAT on it crossing the border, business as usual for NI dealers.

    We seen the quick u turn on the double VAT a few weeks ago,

    That u turn was the UK making it, not our Revenue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭ KevRossi


    Revenue will soon have to define what length of time the car would need to be registered in NI before it can be considered as an NI car. Maybe 12 months, or something similar.

    I also cannot fathom how Revenue are going to simply wave goodbye to the billions that are earned by VRT from 2nd hand cars sourced in GB. Once COVID is over they'll certainly need the cash and I can see some sort of exemptions being made on VAT.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    KevRossi wrote: »
    Revenue will soon have to define what length of time the car would need to be registered in NI before it can be considered as an NI car. Maybe 12 months, or something similar.

    I also cannot fathom how Revenue are going to simply wave goodbye to the billions that are earned by VRT from 2nd hand cars sourced in GB. Once COVID is over they'll certainly need the cash and I can see some sort of exemptions being made on VAT.

    yes I think they will say something of that sort . They don't intend to allow NI to be a landbridge to bring in cars always intended for the Republic. They have wide powers and a car could be detained indefinitely whilst the legal situation is clarified.


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