What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

CrabRevolution

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Yet you are just blindly defending them and anyone who is the opposite to you are anti-eu!

That’s a very narrow minded, one eyed position.

Lots of people defending the EU and they’re world beating ability with contracts and agreements.....like the Brexit one that has left consumers, fishermen etc. worse off here in a Ireland than other EU countries!! Compare our fishermen to the French as a starter for 10 as an example!

If you can find any posts of mine in this thread defending or praising the EU you can post them. I've only pointed out the nonsensical nature of a lot of the criticisms.
If someone makes a stupid accusation and it gets called out, it's not "blindly defending" anything.

Renault 5

Renault 5 wrote: »

If according to AZ the UK facilities are only producing for the UK and Belgian and Dutch facilities are only producing for the EU block.

Who is producing the AZ doses for the rest of the world?

Based on AZ logic it will be neither the UK or EU.

SII in India.

The_Brood

Lmfao. The UK dropped its pants and went to town on us with Brexit and everyone accepted that. Now round two and the EU is again going to be pushed over by King Boris.

In years past this behavior would lead to war.

brickster69

Renault 5 wrote: »

If according to AZ the UK facilities are only producing for the UK and Belgian and Dutch facilities are only producing for the EU block.

Who is producing the AZ doses for the rest of the world?

Based on AZ logic it will be neither the UK or EU.

The Indian Company are sending to Africa and Asia. CCL ( i think ) to Australasia zone and i think a company in Japan to that region.

UK Government also funded £580 million to that scheme

HalfAndHalf

CrabRevolution wrote: »

If you can find any posts of mine in this thread defending or praising the EU you can post them. I've only pointed out the nonsensical nature of a lot of the criticisms.
If someone makes a stupid accusation and it gets called out, it's not "blindly defending" anything.

Yeah the one I quoted stating you ‘don’t mean to blindly defend the EU but......’

Your words not mine. And just because you don’t like or agree with another’s post doesn’t automatically make it a stupid accusation.

Read the CNN link in said post, Pfizer are having the same issues at the same location as AZ and will be delayed in delivering ordered quotas in exactly the same way.

What are the EC doing about this? Why aren’t the EC shouting and threatening and telling Pfizer to supply them from their US plants then?

brickster69

Also a German and Italian company doing the filtering for the EU alongside a Dutch and Belgium company who provide the material to those.

9db3xj7z41fs5u

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

And do you honestly think that a company the size of AZ, mass producing a vaccine that requires huge vats of cultures to mature a less than predictable yield, only a couple of months after its development, to be able to specify an exact amount on an exact date?

And Tbf they actually said we want X million vaccines, delivered at our convenience, whenever we get round to approving it for use, stored until we say so and to hell with if anyone else is ready for them to save their citizens and if we don’t approve it we won’t want them so we’ll have X million € back.

Every other manufacturer have had production delays and setbacks....there’s been no toys thrown out of prams across worldwide media about those companies have there. Just the one where it can be politicised....

Why are you so defensive about AZ? Do you honestly believe what you are saying or are just hoping for a reaction?

doublejobbing 2

You know what the most pathetic thing is?

If Boris Johnson requested that the UK plants supply the Republic of Ireland, in a gesture of solidarity and understanding, seeing as they are already providing one quarter of our island before they are supplying the EU at large, I have not the slightest doubt that our two sycophant clowns in charge would reject the offer, in solidarity with our bosses in Brussels.

The EU are on drugs if they think a UK based factory should be denying the UK public the vaccine in order to export it and supply a bloc that has tried to threaten, intimidate and harass the British public into seeking to override the results of a democratic referendum.

And Irish people are such ****ing anti Brexit pro EU lackeys that we deserve everything we get in this debacle.

noodler

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

You know what the most pathetic thing is?

If Boris Johnson requested that the UK plants supply the Republic of Ireland, in a gesture of solidarity and understanding, seeing as they are already providing one quarter of our island before they are supplying the EU at large, I have not the slightest doubt that our two sycophant clowns in charge would reject the offer, in solidarity with our bosses in Brussels.

The EU are on drugs if they think a UK based factory should be denying the UK public the vaccine in order to export it and supply a bloc that has tried to threaten, intimidate and harass the British public into seeking to override the results of a democratic referendum.

And Irish people are such ****ing anti Brexit pro EU lackeys that we deserve everything we get in this debacle.

Would you be happy for the Germans and French to do the same to reduce our shipments of Moderna, Pfizer, J&J, Curevac etc?

9db3xj7z41fs5u

CrabRevolution wrote: »

If you can find any posts of mine in this thread defending or praising the EU you can post them. I've only pointed out the nonsensical nature of a lot of the criticisms.
If someone makes a stupid accusation and it gets called out, it's not "blindly defending" anything.

This poster just loves to throw hollow insults and meaningless quips at people, without having the ability to back it up with reasoned argument or proper sources of evidence

Tyrone212

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

And Irish people are such ****ing anti Brexit pro EU lackeys that we deserve everything we get in this debacle.

Such patriotism.

Renault 5

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

You know what the most pathetic thing is?

If Boris Johnson requested that the UK plants supply the Republic of Ireland, in a gesture of solidarity and understanding, seeing as they are already providing one quarter of our island before they are supplying the EU at large, I have not the slightest doubt that our two sycophant clowns in charge would reject the offer, in solidarity with our bosses in Brussels.

The EU are on drugs if they think a UK based factory should be denying the UK public the vaccine in order to export it and supply a bloc that has tried to threaten, intimidate and harass the British public into seeking to override the results of a democratic referendum.

And Irish people are such ****ing anti Brexit pro EU lackeys that we deserve everything we get in this debacle.

But that’s just fictional.

The UK wouldn’t offer to supply the ROI. Looks like you are dwelling on the past thinking the UK are our best mate.

9db3xj7z41fs5u

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Such patriotism.

I cannot find double jobbings original post. I agree Tyrone 212.

I would like to see you watch somebody with Covid on a ventilator, and then tell them that they deserve everything that they get. Such spite.

brickster69

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

You know what the most pathetic thing is?

If Boris Johnson requested that the UK plants supply the Republic of Ireland, in a gesture of solidarity and understanding, seeing as they are already providing one quarter of our island before they are supplying the EU at large, I have not the slightest doubt that our two sycophant clowns in charge would reject the offer, in solidarity with our bosses in Brussels.

Especially if the driver delivering them had a ham sandwich in his hand.:eek:

mick087

Melanchthon wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/27/eu-vaccine-bust-up-astrazeneca

My mind boggles how elected counties governments give such powers away to the commission its totally frighting stuff

Reading this the EU was slow of the mark and even now have still not even approved the Oxford vaccine which of course they will approve in there own good time.

We are in the state of an emergency can the EU please get its act together and come up with a plan B. we are not getting as much of this vaccine as you thought so forget it move on and come up with a new plan.

embraer170

CrabRevolution wrote: »

We'd all benefit from seeing the contracts alright, but the poster I was replying to just claimed there were no dates specified whatsoever, best efforts or otherwise.

If it was simply the case of looking at the contract and having your answer, tens of thousands of lawyers would be out of a job.

Tyrone212

Renault 5 wrote: »

But that’s just fictional.

The UK wouldn’t offer to supply the ROI. Looks like you are dwelling on the past thinking the UK are our best mate.

They were never our best mate.

9db3xj7z41fs5u

Tyrone212 wrote: »

They were never our best mate.

It wasn’t so long ago that they were putting the peace treaty in jeopardy for Brexit

NSAman

mick087 wrote: »

My mind boggles how elected counties governments give such powers away to the commission its totally frighting stuff

Reading this the EU was slow of the mark and even now have still not even approved the Oxford vaccine which of course they will approve in there own good time.

We are in the state of an emergency can the EU please get its act together and come up with a plan B. we are not getting as much of this vaccine as you thought so forget it move on and come up with a new plan.

Not a hope.

The EU is a slow and bureaucratic nightmare.

It is obvious they were slow to order. I think I read that somewhere a few weeks ago. Contracts were drawn up. Now they are bleating that plants outside the EU, i.e. Britain MUST send the EU all their quotas.

Someone it seems in the EU F***ed up and now is trying to blame someone else... Quelle Surprise!

Pete_Cavan

NSAman wrote: »

Not a hope.

The EU is a slow and bureaucratic nightmare.

It is obvious they were slow to order. I think I read that somewhere a few weeks ago. Contracts were drawn up. Now they are bleating that plants outside the EU, i.e. Britain MUST send the EU all their quotas.

Someone it seems in the EU F***ed up and now is trying to blame someone else... Quelle Surprise!

AZ are bound by the delivery terms at the time of signing. They can't meet those terms, and by a large margin, because of production issues, do you think signing earlier would have eliminated those issues? And if your answer to that is yes then you are wrong. AZ themselves confirmed in June that they were producing for the EU and would start delivery before the end of the year. The EU even gave them a serious wedge upfront so that they could scale up and have capacity in place. AZ signed up to a particular schedule but now can't meet it, if it was not possible to achieve that at time of signing, they should have had it adjusted. They can't now claim you signed too late, they signed up to it themselves!

Can you provide a link to support EU saying "Britain MUST send the EU all their quotas"? The EU claim that stock produced for them was given to the UK. If that is the case, the EU are saying that some stock produced for the UK should be given to them to go some way towards meeting AZs contractual commitments.

mick087

NSAman wrote: »

Not a hope.

The EU is a slow and bureaucratic nightmare.

It is obvious they were slow to order. I think I read that somewhere a few weeks ago. Contracts were drawn up. Now they are bleating that plants outside the EU, i.e. Britain MUST send the EU all their quotas.

Someone it seems in the EU F***ed up and now is trying to blame someone else... Quelle Surprise!

Bureaucratic IMO is an understatement.

They now seem to be dragging the Brits into this.

This is between the EU and AZ.
Blaming everyone else except themselves everyone else to blame.
They was slow off the mark slow to order and now us EU citizens will see a delay in getting a vaccine.

dublin_paul

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

You know what the most pathetic thing is?

If Boris Johnson requested that the UK plants supply the Republic of Ireland, in a gesture of solidarity and understanding, seeing as they are already providing one quarter of our island before they are supplying the EU at large, I have not the slightest doubt that our two sycophant clowns in charge would reject the offer, in solidarity with our bosses in Brussels.

The EU are on drugs if they think a UK based factory should be denying the UK public the vaccine in order to export it and supply a bloc that has tried to threaten, intimidate and harass the British public into seeking to override the results of a democratic referendum.

And Irish people are such ****ing anti Brexit pro EU lackeys that we deserve everything we get in this debacle.

Spare us your british love :pac:

Pete_Cavan

mick087 wrote: »

Bureaucratic IMO is an understatement.

They now seem to be dragging the Brits into this.

This is between the EU and AZ

Well if vaccines produced for the EU were sent to Britain instead, then it was AZ who dragged them into it, not the EU.

mick087

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Well if vaccines produced for the EU were sent to Britain instead, then it was AZ who dragged them into it, not the EU.

Is there any evidence to say vaccines produced for the EU was given to the UK?
If there is evidence then its still a matter between the EU and AZ.


So far AZ and the UK are in the firing line but no one from the EU is to blame even though they ordered later in the day than other countries.

Renault 5

I still don’t see it mentioned how many doses so far were made in Belgium and the Netherlands.

Have they produced any and where were they sent?

Golden luck for the Tories. They may have fluked a silver bullet in justifying Brexit swiftly.

Joe_ Public

Renault 5 wrote: »

I still don’t see it mentioned how many doses so far were made in Belgium and the Netherlands.

Have they produced any and where were they sent?

Well, the first batch used in the uk were mostly made in the NL which was well documented but as for what each facility is individually making and where each batch is being sent is likely only known by AZ itself. Presumably the eu is very actively seeking answers to these questions as we speak.

NSAman

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

AZ are bound by the delivery terms at the time of signing. They can't meet those terms, and by a large margin, because of production issues, do you think signing earlier would have eliminated those issues? And if your answer to that is yes then you are wrong. AZ themselves confirmed in June that they were producing for the EU and would start delivery before the end of the year. The EU even gave them a serious wedge upfront so that they could scale up and have capacity in place. AZ signed up to a particular schedule but now can't meet it, if it was not possible to achieve that at time of signing, they should have had it adjusted. They can't now claim you signed too late, they signed up to it themselves!

Can you provide a link to support EU saying "Britain MUST send the EU all their quotas"? The EU claim that stock produced for them was given to the UK. If that is the case, the EU are saying that some stock produced for the UK should be given to them to go some way towards meeting AZs contractual commitments.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-27/eu-astra-vaccine-dispute-descends-into-chaos-over-crunch-call

fly_agaric

Renault 5 wrote: »

I still don’t see it mentioned how many doses so far were made in Belgium and the Netherlands.

Have they produced any and where were they sent?

I found this (about the UK doses).

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-astrazenec/uks-initial-astrazeneca-shots-will-come-from-europe-taskforce-says-idUKKBN28I1NH?edition-redirect=uk

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain’s initial doses of the COVID-19 vaccine candidate developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University will come from Europe rather than a domestic supply chain, the country’s Vaccine Taskforce said.

but it does not say how much.

An IT article also mentions it:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/british-factories-should-make-up-astrazeneca-vaccine-supply-eu-says-1.4469257

EU officials suggested that some vaccines produced by AstraZeneca in its European factories may have been shipped elsewhere, including the UK. “The customs data do not lie,” an EU official said. “We can see vaccines were sent to many countries.” In December, the UK’s Vaccine Taskforce told reporters that the country’s initial supply of the AstraZeneca vaccine was being manufactured in the Netherlands and Germany.

It is likely far smaller than the large shortfalls in the EU order (60 % of the 100 million doses mentioned in that article?). Of course, that was before EU-UK Brexit transition period ended (and before this order shortfall bombshell exploded) and it is, IMO extremely unlikely anything will ever go back the other way from the UK.

Melanchthon

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

AZ are bound by the delivery terms at the time of signing. They can't meet those terms, and by a large margin, because of production issues, do you think signing earlier would have eliminated those issues? And if your answer to that is yes then you are wrong. AZ themselves confirmed in June that they were producing for the EU and would start delivery before the end of the year. The EU even gave them a serious wedge upfront so that they could scale up and have capacity in place. AZ signed up to a particular schedule but now can't meet it, if it was not possible to achieve that at time of signing, they should have had it adjusted. They can't now claim you signed too late, they signed up to it themselves!
.

Can you provide a source for the June thing? Because there has been this misinformation being put forwards by pro-EU posters a few times that the EU reached agreement with Astra Zeneca only a month after the UK.
This is not the case, it was August

I know Bild is basically The Sun in lederhosen but they haven't been forced to retract this story.
In it Spahn himself writes.

Almost apologetically, the four Ministers of Health write that they “have not started negotiations on the funding agreement of Astra Zeneca so far.” Moreover: “We would very much welcome if the COM were to take forward these negotiations”.

https://m.bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-inland/with-this-letter-by-jens-spahn-the-vaccine-disaster-in-the-eu-begann-74736986.bildMobile.html

This article also highlights the one of the likely reasons why this row has exploded so fast, there has been tensions building internally for a while now.