Club head speed

GreeBo

MarcusP12 wrote: »

At the risk for plunging this thread further into a $hitstorm, just a couple of thoughts.....mentioned in my post above i'm reading mind games (still no feedback on every shot counts so appreciate any opinions on that) and it went into a little detail about how Frankie M improved so much when he be brought more speed into his game....one thing i found interesting is that it pretty much took 2 years to gain an extra 10mph club head speed from i think 106 to 115 or thereabout from memory (this is based on dates his swing was recorded. It was something like 112 after about 18 months and then 115 a few months later)...

The other thing that complicates this is....I'm sure Molinari was working on far more than just swing speed over that 18-24month period, so we can most likely correlate his increased swing speed to what he worked on, but not necessarily his performance.

Would be interesting to compare his stats over the 2 years, but even then the correlation is complex, before you even bring the mental game into it.

chalky_ie

MarcusP12 wrote: »

At the risk for plunging this thread further into a $hitstorm, just a couple of thoughts.....mentioned in my post above i'm reading mind games (still no feedback on every shot counts so appreciate any opinions on that) and it went into a little detail about how Frankie M improved so much when he be brought more speed into his game....one thing i found interesting is that it pretty much took 2 years to gain an extra 10mph club head speed from i think 106 to 115 or thereabout from memory (this is based on dates his swing was recorded. It was something like 112 after about 18 months and then 115 a few months later)...

my take away from that and which supports a comment i make a long time ago, is that its damn hard to add that kind of extra swing speed and bring it to the course....remember he's a pro and has the ability to work full time time on this and with access to the best coaches in the world but it took that long...what i found interesting is that my swing speed when i'm playing regular is 104mph so not a million miles off frankie's before he put the work in to increase it so for me, a bang average golfer with severely limited time to work on my game, adding 10mph, for example, whilst keeping the ball in play (i.e. i'm sure i could wildly swing it but could literally go anyway) is a serious ask for me at least.....

Second point to raise is, i wonder should people be conscious of their shaft spec when adding significant swing speed? If you're boarder line with a certain swing speed, you could push it into a different shaft spec which could influence the accuracy of your shot? so maybe a fitting could address any perceived loss of accuracy with increased speed? Just thinking off the top of my head.....

The difference between Molinari and any of us mere mortals is that he would have been likely far closer to his limit of potential when it came to speed, so there weren't any low hanging fruit for him to take advantage of. The normal amateur golfer would have a lot more power leaks than these guys, so you never know how easy it might be to gain some club head speed, a lesson with a good pro is going to be the easiest way to find out.

On your second point, any drastic change in speed would definitely warrant a reassessment of your clubs.

MarcusP12

conor-w wrote: »

The difference between Molinari and any of us mere mortals is that he would have been likely far closer to his limit of potential when it came to speed, so there weren't any low hanging fruit for him to take advantage of. The normal amateur golfer would have a lot more power leaks than these guys, so you never know how easy it might be to gain some club head speed, a lesson with a good pro is going to be the easiest way to find out.

On your second point, any drastic change in speed would definitely warrant a reassessment of your clubs.

Yeah i wouldn't disagree with the first point...its much more of a variable for the average amature.....as i was saying for myself, it would be a challenge but i accept that someone else of a similar standard might have more potential to increase...different for pros obviously....

MarcusP12

GreeBo wrote: »

The other thing that complicates this is....I'm sure Molinari was working on far more than just swing speed over that 18-24month period, so we can most likely correlate his increased swing speed to what he worked on, but not necessarily his performance.

Would be interesting to compare his stats over the 2 years, but even then the correlation is complex, before you even bring the mental game into it.

yeah you're right, he was working on lots of stuff including the mental game, but i think we'd end up in circles again if we went too deep on that point...

It did go into detail with the improvements in his performance...don't have the figures to hand but he improved from average driving distance quite a lot but this was amplified by his improvement in accuracy (because he worked on this as well) which means his strokes gained tee to green jumped far more than it otherwise would based on his improvement in driving distance...i can dig up the reference if anyone is interested....

GreeBo

MarcusP12 wrote: »

yeah you're right, he was working on lots of stuff including the mental game, but i think we'd end up in circles again if we went too deep on that point...

It did go into detail with the improvements in his performance...don't have the figures to hand but he improved from average driving distance quite a lot but this was amplified by his improvement in accuracy (because he worked on this as well) which means his strokes gained tee to green jumped far more than it otherwise would based on his improvement in driving distance...i can dig up the reference if anyone is interested....

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/how-francesco-molinari-picked-up-20-yards-off-the-tee-and-still-hits-it-straight

Good article on it, but it shows that even a Pro gained his speed/distance through technique changes rather than just getting stronger.

chalky_ie

MarcusP12 wrote: »

Yeah i wouldn't disagree with the first point...its much more of a variable for the average amature.....as i was saying for myself, it would be a challenge but i accept that someone else of a similar standard might have more potential to increase...different for pros obviously....

I think you seem to think of swing speed as just swinging like a lunatic at the ball, that really isn't what you would be doing to gain more speed. I would put 500 quid on the fact that there are easy speed gains you could make while probably feeling like you're not even swinging as hard as you do now. It's all about how you use your body, where you generate power from. It doesn't matter what age you are, or what hcap you play off. You would be in a tiny minority if you didn't have any gains to make simply from learning how to swing more efficiently.

Have a look at zen golf on youtube, it's a good channel that shows countless examples of players coming through(of all ages and skill levels) his lessons, and how much speed they gain, while actually swinging smoother and more consistently.

MarcusP12

conor-w wrote: »

I think you seem to think of swing speed as just swinging like a lunatic at the ball, that really isn't what you would be doing to gain more speed. I would put 500 quid on the fact that there are easy speed gains you could make while probably feeling like you're not even swinging as hard as you do now. It's all about how you use your body, where you generate power from. It doesn't matter what age you are, or what hcap you play off. You would be in a tiny minority if you didn't have any gains to make simply from learning how to swing more efficiently.

Have a look at zen golf on youtube, it's a good channel that shows countless examples of players coming through(of all ages and skill levels) his lessons, and how much speed they gain, while actually swinging smoother and more consistently.

No i don't think swing speed = trashing it around.....been playing the game for 30 years and i was actually decent in my prime but yeah, i know what you're saying 100% but that's kind of the argument i was trying to make all along (maybe badly or unclear to people) so i really don't want to reiterate my points on this for fear to drawing on some flack again by people maybe misinterpreting what i was saying.... thanks for the recommendation also on the youtube....havent watched much stuff lately as ODed on it at the start of the first lock down but might revisit it!

MarcusP12

ok for those interest in the mollinari stuff in the book... i looked it up as was curious myself on the exact figures but here are the main points:
- 2015 he was ranked 153 in distance at 281 odd
- Fast forward to 2018 and he's now 52nd at 301
- However this translated to 7th in strokes off the tee in 2018.
- He was ranked 8th in total driving which incorporates accuracy as well so even though he was nothing exceptional in distance even at 52 to be ranked that high, because he was also worked on his accurate at the same time as working on his swing speed/distance gain.

book mentions a lot of the stuff which was referenced in that link a few posts ago.......so using Molinari as a casing point at pro level, his gains in distance were a combination of club head speed, core strength and flexibility amongst others....

irish bloke

Anyone using the superspeed training system - started it there a week ago and am interested to hear if anyone has any experience with it

https://superspeedgolf.com/

SuprSi

Yes, I'm on my 2nd week. I don't have a measuring device so won't be able to tell if it's working until I can get to the pro shop when the golf club opens again in (hopefully) a few weeks, but I'll be really interested to see what happens!

irish bloke

SuprSi wrote: »

Yes, I'm on my 2nd week. I don't have a measuring device so won't be able to tell if it's working until I can get to the pro shop when the golf club opens again in (hopefully) a few weeks, but I'll be really interested to see what happens!

Just really started myself also. The left handed swings are hard. Have the PRGR monitor so will track all results.

I see Rick Shields started it 2 weeks ago also, be interesting to see how he gets on

golfguy1

started on them on the 3rd of Jan 98.1mph swing speed 235yrd carry
12th of jan up to 99.3mph
24th of jan 100.1mph
10th of feb 101.3 with a max speed of 102.2(once) 245+ carry

I do them 6/7 days a week.
defo work

irish bloke

golfguy1 wrote: »

started on them on the 3rd of Jan 98.1mph swing speed 235yrd carry
12th of jan up to 99.3mph
24th of jan 100.1mph
10th of feb 101.3 with a max speed of 102.2(once) 245+ carry

I do them 6/7 days a week.
defo work

Good stuff, what tracker are you using PRGR also? I have a net but didn’t bother with carry only SS.

Started at 107 for driver and was 110 after very first session. Next session tomorrow

irish bloke

golfguy1 wrote: »

started on them on the 3rd of Jan 98.1mph swing speed 235yrd carry
12th of jan up to 99.3mph
24th of jan 100.1mph
10th of feb 101.3 with a max speed of 102.2(once) 245+ carry

I do them 6/7 days a week.
defo work

Also are you saying you do the sessions 6 or 7 times a week? They say on the site no more then 3 times a week with a days rest between sessions

golfguy1

irish bloke wrote: »

Also are you saying you do the sessions 6 or 7 times a week? They say on the site no more then 3 times a week with a days rest between sessions

ya I do the sessions 6/7 times a week. it may well go back to 3/4 days during golfing season.
I did find after starting in the first lockdown and gaining 3mph I then stopped using for the golf season and by christmas i had lost 2mph of my gains.

my only advice is do a light warm up before sessions to avoid potential injuries

golfguy1

irish bloke wrote: »

Good stuff, what tracker are you using PRGR also? I have a net but didn’t bother with carry only SS.

Started at 107 for driver and was 110 after very first session. Next session tomorrow

I've being using trackman measured with my driver

irish bloke

golfguy1 wrote: »

ya I do the sessions 6/7 times a week. it may well go back to 3/4 days during golfing season.
I did find after starting in the first lockdown and gaining 3mph I then stopped using for the golf season and by christmas i had lost 2mph of my gains.

my only advice is do a light warm up before sessions to avoid potential injuries

I did wonder that alright, as in how permanent are the gains and do you need continual training just to maintain. Was kinda hoping after 6 weeks ild see 5-8mph gain forever ðŸ˜

golfguy1

irish bloke wrote: »

I did wonder that alright, as in how permanent are the gains and do you need continual training just to maintain. Was kinda hoping after 6 weeks ild see 5-8mph gain forever ðŸ˜

this is my 2nd time using them and I got about 4mph gain after the first time.
If I could get up to a base of 102/103 by May 1st I would be delighted

gypsy79

I drive the ball about 180-200 yards of chs of 82 mph

That seems a far based off others chs??

DuckSlice

golfguy1 wrote: »

ya I do the sessions 6/7 times a week. it may well go back to 3/4 days during golfing season.
I did find after starting in the first lockdown and gaining 3mph I then stopped using for the golf season and by christmas i had lost 2mph of my gains.

my only advice is do a light warm up before sessions to avoid potential injuries

I also did wonder this, Its like anything i suppose. Stop the gym and your max lifts will start to drop. Weather can also be a factor, you wont swing as fast in winter as in summer.

Were you seeing a difference on the course? 3mph should be 10-15 yards I would think.

Edit: i see there is a new speed stick out now, "The Stack System" you can have 30 different combinations of weights on the stick and you can record each swing in an app.

kod12

In terms of record keeping. Do you just log the fastest speed recorded on each of the 3 sticks each week to measure progress?

golfguy1

etxp wrote: »

I also did wonder this, Its like anything i suppose. Stop the gym and your max lifts will start to drop. Weather can also be a factor, you wont swing as fast in winter as in summer.

Were you seeing a difference on the course? 3mph should be 10-15 yards I would think

haven't being on course since I started in January.
on trackman I am seeing 8-10yards extra carry consistently

golfguy1

kod12 wrote: »

In terms of record keeping. Do you just log the fastest speed recorded on each of the 3 sticks each week to measure progress?

trackman doesn't pick up the speed sticks. so I always hit balls first then speed sticks followed by hitting balls.
so my swing speed is measured with my driver

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

golfguy1 wrote: »

trackman doesn't pick up the speed sticks. so I always hit balls first then speed sticks followed by hitting balls.
so my swing speed is measured with my driver

Had you tried much prior to these in order to gain some additional speed ie targeted gym work or even stuff on the range?

Curious how much they might add over and above what you might have gained through other interventions.

golfguy1

Kayson Gigantic Ferry wrote: »

Had you tried much prior to these in order to gain some additional speed ie targeted gym work or even stuff on the range?

Curious how much they might add over and above what you might have gained through other interventions.

didnt do any gym work(too much like hard work)
nothing specific on the range either.
tbh it was curiosity that made me buy the speed sticks.
big gains in a very short time. I would assume long term a specific gym programme alongside the speed sticks would probably be best

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

golfguy1 wrote: »

didnt do any gym work(too much like hard work)
nothing specific on the range either.
tbh it was curiosity that made me buy the speed sticks.
big gains in a very short time. I would assume long term a specific gym programme alongside the speed sticks would probably be best

I've been flirting with them myself but yet to commit

I do quite a bit of gym work which is why I asked.
I've done some very targeted golf work but not speed, more mobility so I can deliver the clubhead how I want.

I was just curious how much they might add over and above some additional targeted training for speed.

I might try them, not much else to be doing over the next few weeks.

GL with it anyway

irish bloke

golfguy1 wrote: »

ya I do the sessions 6/7 times a week. it may well go back to 3/4 days during golfing season.
I did find after starting in the first lockdown and gaining 3mph I then stopped using for the golf season and by christmas i had lost 2mph of my gains.

my only advice is do a light warm up before sessions to avoid potential injuries

Doing a bit more research into the super speed and just what I know from going to the gym in general, but all reviews saying to take a days rest between sessions to allow muscles to repair.
Not trying to tell you your business or anything, just more of an FYI in case you were not aware

irish bloke

kod12 wrote: »

In terms of record keeping. Do you just log the fastest speed recorded on each of the 3 sticks each week to measure progress?

Im recording the max swing of the 3 swings of every routine. There is a template sheet on the swing speed site but found it basic and made my own. 5 min excel sheet job

golfguy1

irish bloke wrote: »

Doing a bit more research into the super speed and just what I know from going to the gym in general, but all reviews saying to take a days rest between sessions to allow muscles to repair.
Not trying to tell you your business or anything, just more of an FYI in case you were not aware

thanks.
ya I saw that, i will keep going for the next 4 weeks and then start easing off for the season.

golfguy1

irish bloke wrote: »

Just really started myself also. The left handed swings are hard. Have the PRGR monitor so will track all results.

I see Rick Shields started it 2 weeks ago also, be interesting to see how he gets on

Rick shields live show on you tube now showing his increases in speed