Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

growleaves

gozunda wrote: »

Well you need to read that comment again because you've missed the point.

But nope. Incorrect. Did not use the word 'only'.
And indeed I did use the words "for example" sorry If that doesn't suit

Forget the fuking blame game. Yes we had eejits screaming for their rights to have their visits and travel over Christmas and yes as you said the government allowed that.

But importantly that fiasco ended up where we had the highest infection rates in the World just over a month ago and we now have daily case numbers which are see-sawing and not declining exponentially despite the level 5 restrictions.

But yet again we have the same moaning and groaning that some want the same roll back of restrictions despite the ****sfest at Christmas.

But yeah let's ignore that bit and argue that its all about that it was all Johnny's and not Mary's fault :rolleyes:

Deaths and respiratory illnesses always peak in mid-January. Its going to happen next January as well even if we stay in Level 5 all year. Even if you ban Christmas 2021.

amandstu

amandstu wrote: »

Suppose my friend(s) live beyond my 5k limit** ,can we still meet up for a walk outside in an area that is (separately) within each other's 5k limit?

Seems to me that we can (provided we socially distance and use our own transport to get there..

Am I right?

** ie they live between 5k and 10k from me.

No. In level 5 you are "asked to stay at home" unless for essential reasons.

But both you and they can take exercise within 5km of your home, so get some sweat bands on and jog on the spot if the guards come along.

Or meet at a graveyard. You can travel under level 5 "to visit a grave" and the restrictions don't say it has to be someone you know/knew, so.

end of the road

Boggles wrote: »

SF majority so?

thankfully sf support lock down so that won't be a viable option for them.


and thankfully for me as an sf voter i am unlikely to have the anti-lock down brigade supporting the party.

SCOOP 64

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Yes i would say as neither of you driven be on the 5k.

No. Leaving home to meet with a friend outdoors and socially distanced is not an adequate excuse to be out of your home according to level 5 restrictions.

bloopy

ingo1984 wrote: »

Schools reopening will drive the numbers back up, nphet will know it, but they'll scapegoat another group then. What are we back to blaming now? Funerals? Well go with funerals.

Can we not just blame someone else this time.
How about roving packs of lycra-clad cyclists?

timmyntc

gozunda wrote: »

Well you need to read that comment again because you've missed most of it. And incorrect. Did not use the word 'only'.And indeed I did use the words "for example" sorry If that doesn't suit

Forget the appropriating blame game. Yes we had eejits screaming for their rights to have their visits and travel over Christmas and yes as you said the government allowed that. We can take that as read.

But more importantly that fiasco ended up where we had the highest infection rates in the World just over a month ago and we now have daily case numbers which are see-sawing and not declining exponentially despite the level 5 restrictions.

But yet again we have the same moaning and groaning that some want the same roll back of restrictions despite the ****sfest at Christmas.

But yeah let's ignore that bit and argue that its all about that it was all Johnny's and not Mary's fault :rolleyes:

And why did we have the highest infection rates in the world?
Because of the preceding lockdowns for months on end!

Other countries that werent under stringent lockdowns for months on end before christmas, didnt see nearly as big as surge at christmas as us - why? hmm, maybe because they didnt have a huge pent up demand for socialising and shopping.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

we now have daily case numbers which are see-sawing and not declining exponentially despite the level 5 restrictions.

Quite.

SCOOP 64

Deleted User wrote: »

No. Leaving home to meet with a friend outdoors and socially distanced is not an adequate excuse to be out of your home according to level 5 restrictions.

But of course it could be where both party's excise anyway you could accidental cross paths , all with in the 5k, keeping distance with mask on of course and how long this going now people are going to do this anyway.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Deaths and respiratory illnesses always peak in mid-January. Its going to happen next January as well even if we stay in Level 5 all year. Even if you ban Christmas 2021.

MOH

gozunda wrote: »

Haha see what you did there :pac:

Yeah as for a little flavour of the type of demands being made ' I said "go back on boards for example.

That MM and friends did allow the bs it is no less reprehensible tbf.

It's an irrelevant distinction. The government shouldn't be making lockdown decisions based on what people on boards or anywhere else say.

But that's pretty much all they've done. Varadkar must be dizzy from the number of times he's done a swift 180.

SCOOP 64

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

But of course it could be where both party's excise anyway you could accidental cross paths , all with in the 5k, keeping distance with mask on of course and how long this going now people are going to do this anyway.

Sure, but people should understand exactly how restrictive these measures are. It's not "pop off in your 5km any time you like for whatever reason".

It's "do not leave your home unless under these very specific circumstances".

People in this thread advocating for the lockdowns to continue seem to think people can just nip out and meet for a coffee within their 5km and bubble up with whichever other household they like even when it's outside the 10km.

end of the road

SusieBlue wrote: »

We don’t need another break. We need a more nuanced, balanced plan for living with this virus that considers everyone’s needs and well-being.

Each time we lock down we do it for harder and for longer than the last, and it’s absolutely absurd to expect people to adhere to such strict restrictions for 18 weeks+.
That’s over a quarter of the year, for goodness sake. When these lockdowns were first brought in it was widely accepted that they are only effective if done for short, brief snaps, to ensure compliance and that people don’t get fatigued.
Not including our ‘Christmas break’, we will have been in lockdown for 25 weeks come May 5th.
Dublin will have been in it almost 30 weeks.
How can you possibly not see that these extremely long lockdowns are what’s causing these massive surges when anything reopens?

Because it’s going to happen again.
When we reopen, whenever that is, cases will rise as people will make the most of the respite because they know we only get brief periods of somewhat normality before the government get out the sledgehammer again. Take away the supply and the demand just grows and grows, it doesn’t lessen or go away.
Then the government panics, shuts down the country again, rinse and repeat.

This is a completely unnatural and unsustainable way of living, particularly in the long term, and acting as if people are weak and selfish for not wanting to continue with this suicide mission is ridiculous.

you have a nuanced, balanced plan for living with this virus, but you are still whinging.
it's as balanced as your going to get, because the reality is lock down and restrictions are the only workable and only actual way to control this virus.
your claim that each time we lock down we do it for longer and harder is not backed up by the reality, only this lock down is about similar to lock down 1 and that is due to the unsustainable rate of cases we had and would have had we not called a hault.
it's over, you need to face the facts and reality of the situation we are in.
no control on the virus or limited control equals ending in failure and all of the issues that brings which will actually effect us all.
there are no other alternatives, they have been effectively tried and countries have ended up back where they started and having to go into much harsher lock downs then we will ever have.

amandstu

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

But of course it could be where both party's excise anyway you could accidental cross paths , all with in the 5k, keeping distance with mask on of course and how long this going now people are going to do this anyway.

Why would one need to be wearing a mask if one was socially distancing and outside?

But yes ,this is in the context of both parties taking their essential daily exercise - just synchronizing their arrangements.

I am still unclear as to whether this falls within the scope of allowed activities.

Am I ,for example allowed to take my daily walk with my next door neighbour?

Is this a grey area or is the advice quite clear (advised against)?

end of the road

C__MC wrote: »

The majority of Irish people are puppets controlled and in a fear of an awful government
If they were told to go the Dingle to look for Fungi by MM, they would

nope, we just understand the facts and reality of the situation we are in and know that if we don't do what we are asked we will be in a situation many times worse then we could ever be currently, and we do not want this to be just to suit some anti-facters.

gozunda

growleaves wrote: »

Deaths and respiratory illnesses always peak in mid-January. Its going to happen next January as well even if we stay in Level 5 all year. Even if you ban Christmas 2021.

We had approx 45 flu related deaths in 2019. We've had 4000 covid related deaths since last March. The previous peak occurred on the 15th of April last year. Our current rate of infection is currently see-sawing and not declining proportionly

That said don't reckon we have to stay in level 5 all year or anything like it. Or 'ban' Christmas 2021.

What we don't need is people demanding that they want an immediate rollback of restrictions just over a month after we had the highest rate of infection in the world.

end of the road

PTH2009 wrote: »

NPHET could manufacture the numbers for a bit of scaremongering.

they couldn't given it wouldn't work.
the anti-facters on the other hand certainly could as it would work with each other.

MOH

gozunda wrote: »

But more importantly that fiasco ended up where we had the highest infection rates in the World just over a month ago and we now have daily case numbers which are see-sawing and not declining exponentially despite the level 5 restrictions.

Why on earth would you expect cases to decline exponentially? That's not how it works, it's pretty much impossible.

Daily case numbers have see-sawed since day 1. That's why daily case numbers are never a good indication of anything (and one of the ways you can tell when the daily NPHET briefing reports are being disingenuous). That's why 7- and 14- days averages are used. (And 5-day when it suits NPHET, despite the fact they know it's skewed since numbers are always lower at weekends).

If you look at the graph of the 7-day average, it's (admittedly surprisingly) followed a very similar pattern to the previous two peaks. with the exception that the December increase and January peak are unreliable since we didn't have accurate daily figures for a couple of weeks.

lee_baby_simms

gozunda wrote: »

We had approx 45 flu related deaths in 2019. We've had 4000 covid related deaths since last March.

Not an accurate comparison. Flu and Covid deaths are defined completely differently.

timmyntc

gozunda wrote: »

We had approx 45 flu related deaths in 2019. We've had 4000 covid related deaths since last March. The previous peak occurred on the 15th of April last year. Our current rate of infection is currently see-sawing and not declining proportionly

That said don't reckon we have to stay in level 5 all year or anything like it. Or 'ban' Christmas 2021.

What we don't need is people demanding that they want an immediate rollback of restrictions just over a month after we had the highest rate of infection in the world.

The point is not how many deaths - the point is respiratory illnesses in both cases and deaths always peak around christmas. They did long before covid was a thing, and they will long after.

You have a spectacular talent for missing the point

growleaves

gozunda wrote: »

That said don't reckon we have to stay in level 5 all year or anything like it. Or 'ban' Christmas 2021.

We've already been primed for something close to that. We're getting a break in mid-summer then there's talk of a 'fourth wave', which no doubt will be beginning this autumn. There's already been talk of restrictions on Christmas 2021 by Martin.

I can guarantee you that many posters here will support it. Why? Because they never saw a Level 5 marathon they didn't like. Even though last autumn's Level 5 funneled infections into a winter surge. Doesn't matter. There's always room for cake, there's room for a good old-fashioned Level 5 shutdown.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

the reality is lock down and restrictions are the only workable and only actual way to control this virus.

Maybe you could call the WHO and let them know so. Or the countries that haven't approached the level of restriction we're currently living under.

amandstu

amandstu wrote: »

Why would one need to be wearing a mask if one was socially distancing and outside?

Because it's 2021 and people are ****ing hysterical.

gozunda

timmyntc wrote: »

The point is not how many deaths - the point is respiratory illnesses in both cases and deaths always peak around christmas. They did long before covid was a thing, and they will long after.You have a spectacular talent for missing the point

No that's not the point at all to what was being said. But yes you really do have a talent for reading things only as you want to see them. :rolleyes:

Another poster was comparing flu with covid. That doesn't wash on many levels. And more important that doesn't explain the peak of Covid infections in April last year.

amandstu

Deleted User wrote: »

Because it's 2021 and people are ****ing hysterical.

What about my hypothetical neighbour with whom I want to synchronize my daily exercise (a social walk ,not a jog)?

Is that within the parameters of the Covid advice?

namloc1980

We'll get a bit of a reprieve for the summer but even then it'll be no indoor gatherings over c.50 people, €9 meals in pubs if you want a drink, no spectators at sporting events etc. We can only hope the weather will be decent!

I was optimistic when the vaccine news came out in December, that things would be heading back to some normality by April but now lockdown is going to last until May at least. I am in Group 7 for vaccination as I am immunosuppressed and thought the vaccine would get to me relatively quickly but now I have no expectation of getting vaccinated before June. If I do, great but it's just taking forever.

gozunda

MOH wrote: »

Why on earth would you expect cases to decline exponentially? That's not how it works, it's pretty much impossible...

Do keep up - This is a discussion not a mathematical thread. Its bloody obvious I'm using the colloquial meaning of the word - ie
"(with reference to an increase) more and more rapidly" (online Dictionary)

Why so? Because by reason of currently being in the highest level of restrictions. And apropos to what happened after our last peak in April 2020 when case numbers went down fairly quickly following similar restrictions.

But if you like a discussion of mathematical terms => mathematics forum thataway

MadYaker

growleaves wrote: »

Uh yes we do. We need people demanding a permanent rollback of restrictions all the time because otherwise the country is only a prison, on increasingly thin pretexts (hey guys a 'new variant')

So you want to more surges? Why? Can you not see the damage the post xmas surge caused with so many non COVID patients having their care completely disrupted. You’re completely anti science and I get that but I don’t see why you want cases to surge. It causes a lot of misery for a lot of people. What do you get out of it?

end of the road

timmyntc wrote: »

And why did we have the highest infection rates in the world?
Because of the preceding lockdowns for months on end!

Other countries that werent under stringent lockdowns for months on end before christmas, didnt see nearly as big as surge at christmas as us - why? hmm, maybe because they didnt have a huge pent up demand for socialising and shopping.

it was because they locked down in time, they saw what christmas would bring.
germany, netherlands, france etc all went into lock downs over christmas.

bettyoleary

amandstu wrote: »

What about my hypothetical neighbour with whom I want to synchronize my daily exercise (a social walk ,not a jog)?

Is that within the parameters of the Covid advice?

Do you think you could catch covid, are they vaccinated? wh. Its gone on long enough surely youve learnt. Stop blaming mammy and daddy and think for yourself assuming you are an adult!!!ere do they work, are the complying with restrictions???? Why do you need to be told what to do at this stage?

amandstu

amandstu wrote: »

What about my hypothetical neighbour with whom I want to synchronize my daily exercise (a social walk ,not a jog)?

Is that within the parameters of the Covid advice?

Not a clue. I imagine it probably depends which guard bothers you. Which is brilliant.