Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

acequion

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Well, if I'm wrong then your argument is most people are not getting on with it (I have no problem accepting a small minority might find things difficult).

That's just not true from my experience. Maybe you're experience is different.

It is actually jaw dropping that you really think that only "a small minority" is affected by the biggest and most widespread closure of all aspects of social and economic life that [hopefully]we will ever experience in our lifetimes.

Kermit.de.frog

acequion wrote: »

It is actually jaw dropping that you really think that only "a small minority" is affected by the biggest and most widespread closure of all aspects of social and economic life that [hopefully]we will ever experience in our lifetimes.

That's not what I said.

What I said was a small minority might be finding things difficult.

Not the same thing.

Kunta Kinte

Deleted User wrote: »

Nobody wearing masks outside here. Kids playing daily on the green. Cases very low here for months.

Where is here?

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I've asked you to provide at least a link to a news source or preferably the CSO to prove that there have been 500,000 job losses.

What's unreasonable about that?

You made the claim.

https://assets.gov.ie/73799/2aa16fdcf3344493bbb79cec4f9071c0.pdf

"Since the implementation of public health measures requiring the closure of all non-essential businesses, approximately 591,000 people have been laid-off and are in receipt of the Pandemic Unemployment Payment (PUP) support, administered by the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection (DEASP)."

Kunta Kinte

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Where is here?

Somewhere I'm not going to be more specific about in a thread where people are congratulating guards for arresting a man who walked up a hill.

SnuggyBear

Windmill100000 wrote: »

They are going along with current level 5 restrictions and numbers are thankfully dropping.

I have noticed more people are wearing masks outside than in previous lockdowns. Anyone else noticed this?

Yes I have seen people doing gardening with a mask. People cycling with a mask on. Pretty sad really.

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

https://assets.gov.ie/73799/2aa16fdcf3344493bbb79cec4f9071c0.pdf

"Since the implementation of public health measures requiring the closure of all non-essential businesses, approximately 591,000 people have been laid-off and are in receipt of the Pandemic Unemployment Payment (PUP) support, administered by the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection (DEASP)."

That's not the same thing.

I'm talking about permanent job losses. The previous poster claimed there are 500,000 livelihoods gone.

This is not true.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That's not the same thing.

I'm talking about permanent job losses.

That's not something that anyone can know right now, and the fact that you'll dismiss over half a million lay-offs in the pursuit of an interwebs point is kinda loony.

growleaves

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Somewhere I'm not going to be more specific about in a thread where people are congratulating guards for arresting a man who walked up a hill.

Jack and Jill went up the hill
And were arrested

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I've asked you to provide at least a link to a news source or preferably the CSO to prove that there have been 500,000 job losses.

What's unreasonable about that?

You made the claim.

Hahaha this is hilarious stuff!!!

A week or two back 460000 claimed PUP.
That doesn’t include all those that were on social welfare etc before this.

This is the result of the lockdown that you so vocally support.

Young lives written off to protect those above life expectancy age. A shameful period in the history of humanity.

Kunta Kinte

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Yes I have seen people doing gardening with a mask. People cycling with a mask on. Pretty sad really.

In what way is that sad?

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

That's not something that anyone can know right now, and the fact that you'll dismiss over half a million lay-offs in the pursuit of an interwebs point is kinda loony.

I haven't dismissed anything. PUP is a temporary measure intended to keep those very people in work for when sectors reopen.

A claim was made that 500,000 jobs have been lost.

Not true.

Penfailed

SusieBlue wrote: »

Yes, I agree, but the difference is we have completely prioritised one group since March to the total detriment of the other, so it isn’t really fair to say the war is waged on both sides. It isn’t really a fair fight, for lack of better word, when it’s actively negatively impacting one group for the benefit of the other.
One side is being looked after, and the other side is making monumental personal sacrifices to facilitate that.

You said people should be honest about what they’re saying and the motives behind it, and if they aren’t, to expect to be called out on this.
I completely agree with this but unfortunately it only seems to apply to one side of the argument.
I have always been very honest and said that I am not in favour of heavy lockdowns & restrictions because it’s had an extremely negative effect on me and my family, none of whom are high risk to this illness.

But instead we have those in favour of lockdowns pretending that ‘we’re all in this together’ when in reality, they’re directly benefiting from these lockdowns in some way in other too.
Whether that be due to genuine fear, concern for themselves or a loved one with an underlying condition, or because they’re financially benefitting from working from home or whatever.
They are looking out for themselves JUST as much as the anti lockdowners are, and they need their sacrifices to continue to facilitate this.
But they will never, ever admit that. I’d have more respect for them if they did.
So we have come to a scenario where being anti lockdown is seen as socially unacceptable, reckless and selfish, and a pro lockdowner is seen as a self sacrificing kind hearted hero for the elderly and vulnerable.

Both sides are being selfish for different reasons but only one side is telling the truth about it, and that’s what I take issue with.

I don't know anyone that's 'pro-lockdown'. I've said repeatedly in this thread that I don't like lockdown/restrictions but I do understand the need for them. I don't pretend 'we're all in this together' and completely understand the negative affects of it on people. Also, I'm not benefiting from lockdown in any way shape or form. I've taken a pay cut. I've lost my main outlet which is playing live music and going to see bands. I can't even practice with the band. We haven't played together since the start of March last year. So, don't put yourself on a pedestal claiming that there's only one side telling the truth.

Windmill100000

SusieBlue wrote: »

The problem is, it’s seen as perfectly acceptable for them to do what they feel is right, but when say I, a person in their 20’s who is not high risk to the illness does what I [/]feel is right, I’m a granny killer/only care about pints/should be arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned. (All of these things have been said to me on this thread)

One informed choice is seen as doing the right thing, the other, not so much. Even though it might be the right thing for the person in question.
We’re a year into this and people can only take so much. If there wasn’t so much sanctimonious finger wagging from people posting from the comfort of their secure jobs and full salaries, there might not be so much frustration from people who have lost and sacrificed the most.
And that’s not directed at you btw, but other people who frequent this thread.

I get it. I l was made redundant in 2008 and again 2010 and was not given any financial support to help me get by or re-educate myself. I think I got 196 a week on the dole. Had I got 350 a week I would have been very, very grateful. But that's just my personal experience and opinion. I do have the utmost empathy for those having lost jobs as I know what those 18 months were like.

Of course you are going to get people wagging the finger from cushy jobs. Some people are just ****.

Not everyone that believes in lockdowns thinks the same way though.

Penfailed

Windmill100000 wrote: »

They are going along with current level 5 restrictions and numbers are thankfully dropping.

I have noticed more people are wearing masks outside than in previous lockdowns. Anyone else noticed this?

I've put that down to the weather. It keeps your face warm.

Kermit.de.frog

The notion that anyone is "pro-lockdown" is the most absurd thing in this thread.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I haven't dismissed anything. PUP is a temporary measure intended to keep those very people in work for when sectors reopen.

A claim was made that 500,000 jobs have been lost.

Not true.

So you think the 500000 are actually working right now...?

Show us evidence that these jobs are not lost.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Somewhere I'm not going to be more specific about in a thread where people are congratulating guards for arresting a man who walked up a hill.

The guards didn't arrest him.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The notion that anyone is "pro-lockdown" is the most absurd thing in this thread.

The notion that “Nobody wants lockdown” is the most absurd thing in this thread.

We had a poster earlier in the thread admit that he loves it and doesn’t want it to ever end. Not to mention yourself.

Kunta Kinte

Deleted User wrote: »

Hahaha this is hilarious stuff!!!

A week or two back 460000 claimed PUP.
That doesn’t include all those that were on social welfare etc before this.

This is the result of the lockdown that you so vocally support.

Young lives written off to protect those above life expectancy age. A shameful period in the history of humanity.

So you are still clinging on to your mistaken belief that the virus only has serious effects on people beyond life expectancy age?

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

So you think the 500000 are actually working right now...?

Show us evidence that these jobs are not lost.

They are laid off temporarily. Unless you think all hospitality won't reopen (that's every hotel, pub, bar, restaurant...in Ireland) only then will have been lost.

Lundstram

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The notion that anyone is "pro-lockdown" is the most absurd thing in this thread.

You won that prize when you said "Many people currently are going about their lives normally".

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The notion that “Nobody wants lockdown” is the most absurd thing in this thread.

We had a poster earlier in the thread admit that he loves it and doesn’t want it to ever end. Not to mention yourself.

One fella said he was enjoying it. He didn't say he never wanted it to end.

Windmill100000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you think the 500000 are actually working right now...?

Show us evidence that these jobs are not lost.

Are you saying that none of these people will work in their jobs again when retail and restaurants, pubs reopen?

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

The notion that “Nobody wants lockdown” is the most absurd thing in this thread.

We had a poster earlier in the thread admit that he loves it and doesn’t want it to ever end. Not to mention yourself.

Nosense. Quote or citations please...

No-one has ever said, to my knowledge and myself included, about never ending restrictions.

Restrictions will be in place for as long as is needed and no more.

Pretty straight forward really.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They are laid off temporarily. Unless you think all hospitality won't reopen (that's every hotel, pub, bar, restaurant...in Ireland) only then will have been lost.

I think you should look up the meaning of the word temporary.

Lots of those jobs are either permanently lost or have been “Temporarily “ lost for the best part of a year with way more to go.

Let’s hope the banks understand that people are temporarily out of work for a year.

Windmill100000

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Are you saying that none of these people will work in their jobs again when retail and restaurants, pubs reopen?

It’s certainly not guaranteed.

Lundstram

Imagine working in a wet pub or restaurant that was closed for 70% of 2020 and still closed but you've some guy telling you "they're only temporarily unemployed".

Hilarious stuff.

Windmill100000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s certainly not guaranteed.

Absolutely absurd to insinuate no one will ever return to working in all the retail shops, pubs and restaurants in Ireland currently closed due to lockdown.

Lundstram

Lundstram wrote: »

Imagine working in a wet pub or restaurant that was closed for 70% of 2020 and still closed but sure "they're only temporarly unemployed".

Hilarious stuff.

Imagine attending a job interview and telling the interviewer that you were temporarily unemployed for over a year...

They’d giggle to themselves and say so you were unemployed for over a year.