Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

pjohnson

acequion wrote: »

Exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about. The emboldened is an utter nonsense comment because you can find no more effective counter argument. Try harder Boggles.:rolleyes:

And yes certain experts have indeed been vilified and rubbished for daring to express a contrarian viewpoint.

Consensus at all costs. Which you very obviously are ok with. But I'm not. I'm for open, honest and respectful debate. A pipe dream in post pandemic Ireland.

Dolores Cahill and Dave Cullen?

noserider

hynesie08 wrote: »

How many phone numbers do you remember off the top of your head?

https://youtu.be/2nKhnnedlz0

ypres5

Boggles wrote: »

Stop listening to extreme views.

Like I explained to you earlier all you need is common sense and basic maths.

unfortunately boggles common sense and basic maths committed Hari Kiri in the dail nearly a year ago. we've a health minister whos desperately out of his depth, a taoiseach who seems more like an overwhelmed primary school teacher on his first week on the job and a minister of finance who's as easy to find as a deadbeat dad.

pjohnson

ypres5 wrote: »

unfortunately boggles common sense and basic maths committed Hari Kiri in the dail nearly a year ago. we've a health minister whos desperately out of his depth, a taoiseach who seems more like an overwhelmed primary school teacher on his first week on the job and a minister of finance who's as easy to find as a deadbeat dad.

I was wondering what nickname Norma would have gotten. Agree totally that Donnelly and Martin are beyond inept but think Foley is worse than the finance.

monkeybutter

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Brilliant post.

The rationalisation is frightening

I remember posting last October when lockdown was beginning again that there was no way out of lockdowns until metrics used to implement them were changed.

I was insulted and my credibility questioned.

I was told the vaccine was near approval and last October’s lockdown would be the last.

Ryan Tubridy was on the verge of tears on the late late urging us all to knuckle down 1 more time.

This quote was from last night

You have to have credibility before it can be questioned

ypres5

pjohnson wrote: »

I was wondering what nickname Norma would have gotten. Agree totally that Donnelly and Martin are beyond inept but think Foley is worse than the finance.

the way leaving cert students are being messed around the past month is grounds for a resignation but I know it won't happen

Boggles

Silentcorner wrote: »

The extreme views are all over the media all day everyday.

They don't get challenged.

We've had the most ridiculous predictions since this started a year ago, from freezer trucks full of bodies, to mass graves, to 120,000 people dead, to every family will lose someone to this...in reality, our ICU capacity has been stretched over two separate periods during our two surges in infection....god knows what extreme predictions our Government are hearing that is keeping the whole nation under house arrest for the at least the coming months.

This is madness!

Like I said stop listening to extreme views on either side.

These islands in particular just got a glaring illustration of how dangerous this virus is.

I'm not surprised that the overall tone is caution.

Boggles

ypres5 wrote: »

unfortunately boggles common sense and basic maths committed Hari Kiri in the dail nearly a year ago. we've a health minister whos desperately out of his depth, a taoiseach who seems more like an overwhelmed primary school teacher on his first week on the job and a minister of finance who's as easy to find as a deadbeat dad.

If anything we didn't shut down fast enough a year ago, there was a lot of dithering.

That said we did shut down in time, I always maintained that our first wave was a lot milder than people were claiming.

To be honest I don't like that many politicians, maybe a half dozen spread across the whole spectrum at a push.

CrowdedHouse

Interesting Twitter thread

https://twitter.com/PaulTreyvaud/status/1359799522449387526?s=20

acequion

Boggles wrote: »

They have been vilified and rubbished because their view points were proven to be absolute nonsense.

Link to this "proof" please?

Boggles

acequion wrote: »

Link to this "proof" please?

You mean like the often cited Nobel Laurent who claimed back in the summer Ireland had reached herd immunity and the pandemic was over?

He isn't cited too often anymore TBF.

acequion

Boggles wrote: »

You mean like the often cited Nobel Laurent who claimed back in the summer Ireland had reached herd immunity and the pandemic was over?

He isn't cited too often anymore TBF.

Ah for god's sake Boggles, are you not on here enough to know that if you make blatant claims you back them up! With decent evidence. If you can't back them up you either don't make them or admit that your "claim" is just your opinion. And it's just your opinion that experts who publicly disagree with the national strategy have been discredited. Because you don't agree with them.

And I don't agree with you, have never agreed with you, will never agree with you.

So let's do each other a favour and break up. :pac:

retro:electro

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Interesting Twitter thread

https://twitter.com/PaulTreyvaud/status/1359799522449387526?s=20

I feel every single word of his frustration. It’s so suffocating and what’s worse is the feeling we can’t do anything about it. Try and voice an opposing viewpoint and you’re a granny killing Gemma O Doherty fanatic. It’s exhausting.

weldoninhio

C__MC wrote: »

Sinn Fein will have a landslide in the next election
Government shooting themselves in the foot with leaving cert shambles, bizarre vaccine roll out, destroying peoples livelihoods

I think it’s part of the plan. Let Sinn Fein in. If their manifesto is in any way adhered to they’ll have a few years and then never again. Let them deal with that massive unemployment, massive debt, lower than normal budget, while they flood the country with anchor babies, increase the dole, drive multinationals out of Ireland.

People will be begging for corrupt FFG back.

Boggles

acequion wrote: »

Ah for god's sake Boggles, are you not on here enough to know that if you make blatant claims you back them up! With decent evidence.

Ireland to escape a second wave of Covid-19, says Nobel Prize winning scientist

Nobel Prize winner says country 'is done' with the coronavirus

acequion

Boggles wrote: »

Ireland to escape a second wave of Covid-19, says Nobel Prize winning scientist

Ok fair enough. He was wrong about the second wave but he was right about other things. The experts you clearly admire and agree with have also been wrong. This isn't an exact science. There will be right and there will be wrong. Which is why balanced, open debate is vital. Not trying to silence anything that goes against the gospel according to NPHET.

Boggles

acequion wrote: »

Ok fair enough. He was wrong about the second wave but he was right about other things.

He declared the pandemic over? :pac:

acequion wrote: »

The experts you clearly admire and agree with have also been wrong. This isn't an exact science.

It actually kind of is. Again, common sense and basic maths, your 90% there.

But tell me which experts do I admire?

Stormyteacup

weldoninhio wrote: »

I think it’s part of the plan. Let Sinn Fein in. If their manifesto is in any way adhered to they’ll have a few years and then never again. Let them deal with that massive unemployment, massive debt, lower than normal budget, while they flood the country with anchor babies, increase the dole, drive multinationals out of Ireland.

People will be begging for corrupt FFG back.

I don’t know, have had a rethink about their manifesto - ‘where was their money coming from‘ was the response typically, however it seems borrowing is a bottomless pit now so perhaps there’s something in it.

If welfare state is funded with no worries or increased burden on others what’s the problem?

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Haha.

Common sense and basic maths can be applied to countries with no lockdowns

It the fact the median age of death in Ireland is 83-84 and male life expectancy in Ireland is 80.

Common sense went out the window last May

Still don’t know what a median is I see Fintan. Or how life expectancy is calculated for that matter

voldejoie

Honestly don't know how much more of this I can take.

Also, was on a work call earlier today with my team, three are based in New York and two of us here in Dublin. We both dialled in from home as we've been working from home since last March, but my colleagues in New York were all in the office and in a meeting room together. I'm actually annoyed at myself for how jealous I was of them, walking into the office meeting room together with coffees in hand and having the craic.

They can't believe the situation here in Ireland. I'm not sure I can either.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

Still don’t know what a median is I see Fintan. Or how life expectancy is calculated for that matter

I’m fascinated by your insistence to highlight your shortcomings in understanding what you correct people on

Silentcorner

When this began last year and we had no idea what was coming our way, I thought to myself that I'll probably pass field hospitals over the course of the pandemic...which of course never materialised, there would have been no need for them...but at this stage, it wouldn't surprise me to see food banks in the coming months and into next year!!

What plans do the Government have for the 25% of people who are facing at least another year of financial uncertainty? who's ability to pay rent/mortgages/food/bills has been taken from them, what plans do they have to handle the mental health crisis in young and old, what plans do they have to catch all the missed cancer/heart disease diagnosis?

I wish I lived in Sweden, or one of the American States that didn't succumb to hysteria, they will have much less cleaning up to do as the rest of us when this hysteria passes!!!

retro:electro

I can’t understand why keeping the over 70s locked down until they’re vaccinated isn’t being touted as a viable option. Knowing they have a target in mind will help them mentally. Having to do x in order to achieve y in a certain amount of weeks gives them something so strive for. But stringing all of us along for an infinite amount of time, urging us to hold firm while in turn giving us nothing to hold firm for is mentally destroying. Let the rest of us get back to some semblance of normality, within reason. I have no issue wearing a mask, keeping socially distant and limiting myself to inter county travel until all vulnerable groups are vaccinated. But having no access to the things that make life worthwhile, things that keep me sane, keep my mental health ticking over, give me a purpose in life.. it’s soul destroying. I don’t know how long I can keep going like this I’m at my wits end. Everyone I’m speaking to is saying the same. Moral right now is in the gutter

CrowdedHouse

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Interesting Twitter thread

https://twitter.com/PaulTreyvaud/status/1359799522449387526?s=20

I actually got emotional reading that. The simple and unfettered truth, how the people of Ireland are being stifled to the point of nervous exhaustion. Something has to give, and the loud hints dropped by Varadkar and Martin about interminable restrictions have pushed our goodwill too far. Earlier, Hellrazer kindly put up an excel list of TD emails. I got busy this afternoon civilly registering my feelings on the matter, reminding them about the ballot box and token gratitude. These politicians are here to represent our interests, not belittle us into submission. "Strength in numbers" is the old adage, now is the time to mobilise and make our displeasure known. And I don't give a flying fiddlers about Gemma O'Doherty or those who lazily want to lump me in with her. I simply want an end to this undemocratic lockdown and be accorded the privilege of returning to work, with the added incentive of contributing to a faltering economy. Call it a civic duty, and I'm determined to take to the streets in getting the message across to our aloof government.

daydorunrun

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually got emotional reading that. The simple and unfettered truth, how the people of Ireland are being stifled to the point of nervous exhaustion. Something has to give, and the loud hints dropped by Varadkar and Martin about interminable restrictions have pushed our goodwill too far. Earlier, Hellrazer kindly put up an excel list of TD emails. I got busy this afternoon civilly registering my feelings on the matter, reminding them about the ballot box and token gratitude. These politicians are here to represent our interests, not belittle us into submission. "Strength in numbers" is the old adage, now is the time to mobilise and make our resentment known. And I don't give a flying fiddlers about Gemma O'Doherty or those who lazily want to lump me in with her. I simply want an end to this undemocratic lockdown and be accorded the privilege of returning to work, with the added incentive of contributing to a faltering economy. Call it a civic duty, and I'm determined to take to the streets in getting the message across to our aloof government.

I've looked for that email list but can't find it as I intend to do likewise. Any chance you could repost it?

The HorsesMouth

One of the huge problems we have at the moment is that all opposition parties have locked onto the zero covid BS argument. We have absolutely no one asking the hard questions at the minute..why are other counties opening up? Why are Italy opening restaurants? Why is New York opening up?! Why were we so positive about vaccines at end of December and now it's doom and gloom? There is NOBODY questioning this. The media and our opposition parties are failing the system. There are no checks and balances at the moment and Leo and the rest are literally allowed throw about any comment they like without having to fully explain to the good people of this country where we are going, how we are going to get there and when will that be.

normanoffside

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually got emotional reading that. The simple and unfettered truth, how the people of Ireland are being stifled to the point of nervous exhaustion. Something has to give, and the loud hints dropped by Varadkar and Martin about interminable restrictions have pushed our goodwill too far. Earlier, Hellrazer kindly put up an excel list of TD emails. I got busy this afternoon civilly registering my feelings on the matter, reminding them about the ballot box and token gratitude. These politicians are here to represent our interests, not belittle us into submission. "Strength in numbers" is the old adage, now is the time to mobilise and make our resentment known. And I don't give a flying fiddlers about Gemma O'Doherty or those who lazily want to lump me in with her. I simply want an end to this undemocratic lockdown and be accorded the privilege of returning to work, with the added incentive of contributing to a faltering economy. Call it a civic duty, and I'm determined to take to the streets in getting the message across to our aloof government.

My resident left wing opposition politician (who I normally vote for btw) got back to me via assistant to tell about his zero covid vision as a way of getting out of yo-yo restrictions.
I pointed out that not only would it be futile and lead to longer and harsher restrictions due to it's futility but that it is also inherently xenophobic and racist as a policy. I've seen it myself this year in my industry, foreigners are being increasingly ostracised and made to feel unwelcome due to people being brainwashed into thinking it is all the fault of people coming into the country. Zero Covidists are only fuelling this xenophobia.

I doubt I'll be hearing back but I'll let you know if I do.

SafeSurfer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I actually got emotional reading that. The simple and unfettered truth, how the people of Ireland are being stifled to the point of nervous exhaustion. Something has to give, and the loud hints dropped by Varadkar and Martin about interminable restrictions have pushed our goodwill too far. Earlier, Hellrazer kindly put up an excel list of TD emails. I got busy this afternoon civilly registering my feelings on the matter, reminding them about the ballot box and token gratitude. These politicians are here to represent our interests, not belittle us into submission. "Strength in numbers" is the old adage, now is the time to mobilise and make our displeasure known. And I don't give a flying fiddlers about Gemma O'Doherty or those who lazily want to lump me in with her. I simply want an end to this undemocratic lockdown and be accorded the privilege of returning to work, with the added incentive of contributing to a faltering economy. Call it a civic duty, and I'm determined to take to the streets in getting the message across to our aloof government.

My thoughts on lockdown restrictions are these.

The constitution guarantees that government respects the rights of citizens.

These rights can only be revoked in the interests of the public good.

The government decide what is in the interests of the public good.

normanoffside

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

One of the huge problems we have at the moment is that all opposition parties have locked onto the zero covid BS argument. We have absolutely no one asking the hard questions at the minute..why are other counties opening up? Why are Italy opening restaurants? Why is New York opening up?! Why were we so positive about vaccines at end of December and now it's doom and gloom? There is NOBODY questioning this. The media and our opposition parties are failing the system. There are no checks and balances at the moment and Leo and the rest are literally allowed throw about any comment they like without having to fully explain to the good people of this country where we are going, how we are going to get there and when will that be.

All our media is sponsored by government via HSE ads. It's their main source of income right now.
People listen to the media and DR Tony and the Opposition parties figure they will gain more support by demanding even harsher restrictions than are advised. Government see the gaining support for the opposition and get support back by calling for harsher restrictions themselves.

It's a vicious circle and we won't get out of it until some mainstream media or politicians start questioning it all.
At the minute we have only some sensible independent politicians like Michael McNamara talking about this.
It's no wonder the TV channels prefer to highlight the Healy Raes instead of McNamara to try to convince everyone that all opposition are loons.

PTH2009

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/no-agreement-on-when-economy-might-reopen-says-varadkar-1.4482086?mode=amp