Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

FintanMcluskey

Windmill100000 wrote: »

What right do you actually have to tell others how they should feel and to what degree about something?We are all entitled to think what we want. No one on here is unaware of the costs of lockdown.

Perhaps it's time to accept that for many people managing in the here and now is what matters to them.

Most of us of a certain age have dealt with unemployment and a flailing economy through recessions. We have lived through it and will again. And for others, accepting they have a choice to support restrictions and the need for them, especially since Christmas is their right.

I think a lot of your frustration is not enough see the situation as you do, not on here but in the wider community. People are going along with what is being asked of them not just because the government says so but because they believe saving life trumps everything- and had we not locked down there would have been more deaths. Yes, you say lockdowns have no benefit but many the world over believe they do. At the end you can say you were right, there is a payback. But dont delude yourself we dont all know that. It's just for many we understand why it had to happen and always will irrespective of the cost.

Your comment begins scolding me for what you then proceed to do throughout your comment. Not surprisingly

The bit in bold proves the point I and many other here have made.

You only care about now.

Those people believe saving Covid lives trumps every other life. There is a difference.

I do believe many have still have not re-calibrated the death rate to recent science that’s the problem. Some believe stay at home orders are preventing deaths at a rate not seen before. Although some still believe January has had an unprecedented death rate

FintanMcluskey

Graham wrote: »

I'm not ignoring them at all, in fact I'd rather we were spending significantly more as I've posted about previously.

Let the next generations pay back the bill to protect me.

What a selfish sentiment

Beasty

A few reminders as some of you seem incapable of considering mod warnings, forum or indeed site rules.

Firstly it is perfectly acceptable to disagree in a civil manner. If you are incapable of doing so then do not post.

Secondly don't further antagonise with comments like "You're wrong". There is no harm in explaining yourself - not only no harm, but you can then help avoid getting yourself in trouble. Equally referring to certain types of people (and by implication certain posters) as things like "curtain twitchers" is uncivil.

Finally, if you think someone is breaching rules report it. Do not discuss it here, and do not discuss other users whatever your thoughts are. Leave the modding to the mods.

All very basic stuff, so why do we need to keep saying it? The answer is rhetorical BTW - do not respond to this post in-thread.

Whiplash85

Yes the lockdown proponents never seem to be able to grasp the reality that when you lockdown at some stage you know you might have to open up again. For every action there is a reaction.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Arghus are you suggesting we should have been in level 5 lockdown from October to March? Seeing how you think we were wrong the "relax our restrictions"...

I do wonder, do you really think people will live like hermits to keep others safe? The very fact that cases go up once restrictions are relaxed - suggests not.

One wouldn't resolutely defend lockdowns if they didn't have a job to go to everyday. And saving up quite a wedge of money. The faux concern is rather transparent, don't buy into such a hollow narrative.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Arghus are you suggesting we should have been in level 5 lockdown from October to March? Seeing how you think we were wrong the "relax our restrictions"...

I do wonder, do you really think people will live like hermits to keep others safe? The very fact that cases go up once restrictions are relaxed - suggests not.

Whether people admit it out straight or not, if you disagreed with opening up at Christmas then you support a 6 month lockdown.

That realistically is still going to be lockdown come March 5th anyways and will likely extend until summer.

Malcomex

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Whether people admit it out straight or not, if you disagreed with opening up at Christmas then you support a 6 month lockdown.

That realistically is still going to be lockdown come March 5th anyways and will likely extend until summer.

Govt. will avoid any more yo-yoing while vaccine is rolled out

They must have learnt their lesson there by now

Graham

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Let the next generations pay back the bill to protect me.

What a selfish sentiment

If we stop spending now it'll be more than the next generation that end up paying for it.

We need to stimulate economies and increase inflation to prevent exactly the scenario you're whinging about.

Windmill100000

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Your comment begins scolding me for what you then proceed to do throughout your comment. Not surprisingly

The bit in bold proves the point I and many other here have made.

You only care about now.

Those people believe saving Covid lives trumps every other life. There is a difference.

I do believe many have still have not re-calibrated the death rate to recent science that’s the problem. Some believe stay at home orders are preventing deaths at a rate not seen before. Although some still believe January has had an unprecedented death rate

I dont only care about now at all but people are doing what they can to get by now and if that means adhering to guidelines, so be it.

You have scolded many on here who disagree with you so taking the moral high ground is a little odd in that regard.

We will all be paying the price of lockdowns in the future, all of us. Not just those against it. We are all aware of this fact.

Silentcorner

Seweryn wrote: »

Our excess deaths are more less zero in comparison with the previous year's average.

That is what I suspect but others here seem to think we've had carnage.

We have registered 3,100 Covid deaths over 11 months, most of whom were in a seriously weak position...as cold as it sounds, it doesn't sound like carnage!!!!

We don't know what the Case Fatality Rate is but we know it is a lot lower than we are being led to believe!!!

Penfailed

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Yes the lockdown proponents never seem to be able to grasp the reality that when you lockdown at some stage you know you might have to open up again. For every action there is a reaction.

I don't think anyone is under any illusion that if you lockdown the people, you have to let them loose at some stage. Saying things like, "never seem to be able to grasp the reality," is completely unfounded.

FintanMcluskey

Windmill100000 wrote: »

I dont only care about now at all but people are doing what they can to get by now and if that means adhering to guidelines, so be it.

You have scolded many on here who disagree with you so taking the moral high ground is a little odd in that regard.

We will all be paying the price of lockdowns in the future, all of us. Not just those against it. We are all aware of this fact.

That cost will be increased unnecessarily taking actions not actually cost effective though.

Would it not make sense to keep the cost as low as possible?

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

I don't think anyone is under any illusion that if you lockdown the people, you have to let them loose at some stage. Saying things like, "never seem to be able to grasp the reality," is completely unfounded.

But it’s the argument many are making.

That Ireland shouldn’t have opened in anyway for Christmas.

That would have meant lockdown from October to likely next May, after previously being in lockdown twice as long the rest of Europe

FintanMcluskey

Graham wrote: »

If we stop spending now it'll be more than the next generation that end up paying for it.

We need to stimulate economies and increase inflation to prevent exactly the scenario you're whinging about.

Inflate our way out of this mess?

Widdensushi

Silentcorner wrote: »

That is what I suspect but others here seem to think we've had carnage.

We have registered 3,100 Covid deaths over 11 months, most of whom were in a seriously weak position...as cold as it sounds, it doesn't sound like carnage!!!!

We don't know what the Case Fatality Rate is but we know it is a lot lower than we are being led to believe!!!

The weak were usually finished by the flu, the covid measures mean we have had little or no flu.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

But it’s the argument many are making.

That Ireland shouldn’t have opened in anyway for Christmas.

That would have meant lockdown from October to likely next May, after previously being in lockdown twice as long the rest of Europe

Many? Really? I'm not seeing it. Either way, even if 'many' were, they aren't under any illusion that opening up must happen at some stage. Saying they've no grasp on reality is just wrong.

Idbatterim

This government, like any of the ones we have had for the past few decades are a total disgrace! I'll give them one thing though, they were totally screwed either way with the xmas decision, can you imagine Christmas being cancelled totally, after the nine months of the harsh restrictions we had?

Say they lock down very strict over xmas, and we would never have known that this surge sould have got to the extent it did. I hate political weakness and cowardice , but I'll give them somewhat of a pass on this decision...

Many of the deaths were likely people on deaths door and many are probably more humane than living. Not that politicians or the media could touch that...

Lundstram

Italy relaxing restrictions today, purely down to pressure from protestors and businesses defying rules by opening up. Great to see.

And this from a country that suffered the most.

There's no free €350 to sit on your arse to be had in Italy.

The Irish were bought.

Ginger n Lemon

Lundstram wrote: »

Italy relaxing restrictions today, purely down to pressure from protestors and businesses defying rules by opening up. Great to see.

And this from a country that suffered the most.

There's no free €350 to sit on your arse to be had in Italy.

The Irish were bought.

I am sure the regulars here will tell you lockdown has worked in Italy and thats why they are relaxing restrictions

Sign of things to come.

Ginger n Lemon

Idbatterim wrote: »

This government, like any of the ones we have had for the past few decades are a total disgrace! I'll give them one thing though, they were totally screwed either way with the xmas decision, can you imagine Christmas being cancelled totally, after the nine months of the harsh restrictions we had?

Say they lock down very strict over xmas, and we would never have known that this surge sould have got to the extent it did. I hate political weakness and cowardice , but I'll give them somewhat of a pass on this decision...

Many of the deaths were likely people on deaths door and many are probably more humane than living. Not that politicians or the media could touch that...

We wouldnt know now.

But 20% + long term unemployment wouldve been guaranteed if Christmas shopping wasnt allowed.

Graham

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Inflate our way out of this mess?

In part, yes.

valarmorghulis

hi,considering leaving dublin permanently moving home for 2021 west via public transport ,sending my stuff with movers ,could the cops board a bus at a checkpoint,is that a legit reason to avoid a fine ,costing me €50 very day I unnecessarily stay in dublin

Graham

Lundstram wrote: »

Italy relaxing restrictions today, purely down to pressure from protestors and businesses defying rules by opening up. Great to see.

And this from a country that suffered the most.

I'm curious to see how that plays out

Italy's health ministry on Friday announced an easing of coronavirus restrictions in many regions, despite warnings from public health experts that rules should be tightened.

Ginger n Lemon

"Yes, Italy is bucking the trend," said Walter Ricciardi, a public health expert who advises Italy's health minister on the pandemic.

Nevertheless, "right now it is extremely difficult to propose stricter measures due to resistance from both politicians and public opinion", Ricciardi said.

https://www.thelocal.it/20210129/were-bucking-the-trend-italy-set-to-ease-covid-rules-despite-experts-warnings

I remember a poster here told me that restrictions in Europe will be relaxed when it is safe to do so and that protests will have nothing to do with it.

It seems like that is not the case.

:pac:

Boggles

Yeah, we should definitely mimic Italy.

:rolleyes:

Graham

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I remember a poster here told me that restrictions in Europe will be relaxed when it is safe to do so and that protests will have nothing to do with it.

It seems like that is not the case.

Let's hope we're not that stupid.

hynesie08

Italy

"Are cases going down?
Not really but they're not going up
Good enough"

Yeah, that's the example we should follow, I mean Italy have played a blinder this year....

Ginger n Lemon

Graham wrote: »

Let's hope we're not that stupid.

Aye.

Lets stay in level 5 until June to be safe.

Lundstram

Graham wrote: »

I'm curious to see how that plays out

Note "the public health experts".

Public health experts don't give a sh1t about your job or how you're going to feed your family. Like I said, Italy aren't handing out €1400 a month to each person.

Great to see Italy are moving on and not letting this "deadly virus" control their lives.

FintanMcluskey

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

You're assuming people in favour of stronger restrictions over Christmas were also in favour of the length of restrictions earlier last year. Each decision should be analysed in isolation. I completely agree that we were under restrictions for too long over the summer when case numbers were very low. That is completely irrelevant to the restrictions that were implemented around Christmas when the virus was spreading much more rapidly.

I’m not assuming, many posters refuse to criticise the approach of NPHET last Summer and supported the approach mitigated at the time.

Do you think we should have reopened for Christmas?