Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Penfailed

Lundstram wrote: »

Except when it rains or gets a bit cold.

To be fair to the guards, I've seen them out in all weather.

Captain_Crash

suicide_circus wrote: »

Still, probably for the best they're not running the show during this

Last March I would have agreed with this 10000%! But we’re nearly a year into this in an objectively in a worse position that we were at the beginning and I’m starting to wonder, would a majority government (which I believe only SF are capable of at the moment) be stronger and more appropriate than the fragile coalition we currently have?

For clarity, I’m not an SF voter.

Windmill100000

Russman wrote: »

No, I get what you're saying, I mean if we opened up properly. I mean the health service is on a knife edge even with L5 (or whatever level we're at), if we dropped to L2 it would be carnage.
I know the economy would continue, but even if you had 20% of teachers out sick and/or 20% of doctors & nurses out too, with the knock on effect of that I think you're looking at much worse than we have now where its at least semi-planned.

I agree with you. We have been at or close to capacity at a lot of hospitals. That the health system hasn't collapsed after Christmas is, I believe, down to lockdown at level 5. As case numbers drop it stands to reason that admissions with covid will also drop.

It will be a slow ease into reopening I think rather than just a blanket lift to level 3. The situation in
hospitals will be scrutinised and direction taken from that. I know people on here will say that's the wrong approach but I do think that is how it will go.

Penfailed

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

What exactly is your issue with wearing masks? BTW you are quite correct when you state the wearing of them will be here to stay at least in public indoor places.

I can't see that happening to be honest.

Windmill100000

Penfailed wrote: »

I can't see that happening to be honest.

While we are at varying levels of lockdown I think shops will state you have to wear a mask. It will likely be a condition of reopening and no shop is going to go against that.

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

To be fair those elderly today, did, in the 1950’s isolate for over a year to protect their neighbours from TB. They shut all the dance hall and pubs to prevent the spread of that disease.

Or did they?


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/when-the-church-blamed-dances-for-the-spread-of-tuberculosis-in-ireland-1.4161415%3fmode=amp

TB was in no way similar

Dr. Bre

Hopefully people have saved a few quid with the austerity on the way

Penfailed

Malcomex wrote: »

You reckon

How many of the anti-social type (imo) and the vulnerable /hypochondriac will prefer or will continue to wear them

Will the government even drop them?

I don't mind if, on down the line, people have a choice to wear a mask or not. I wouldn't like to see them mandated in indoor public spaces.

Malcomex

Penfailed wrote: »

I don't mind if, on down the line, people have a choice to wear a mask or not. I wouldn't like to see them mandated in indoor public spaces.

Best option imo

If vulnerable they can protect themselves

Malcomex

Windmill100000 wrote: »

While we are at varying levels of lockdown I think shops will state you have to wear a mask. It will likely be a condition of reopening and no shop is going to go against that.

As a poster pointed out yesterday there is the issue of masks and CCTV

Government and shops won't like that long term

Governments are creeping towards surveillance and continuous monitoring in the long term

Shops for simple security reasons and identification of thieves etc.

Windmill100000

Wales extending lockdown by three weeks. Cases have dropped below 200 a day for first time since November.

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

With all the calls on here for scientific studies that lockdowns wor, which was provided, surely there are studies to show that the cure is worse than the disease?

Hang on a minute, are you referring to the studies that you linked to? Full of scientific jargon, yes, full of answers? no.

We are dealing with a virus where we simply haven't a clue how many people have been infected by, so how any study can accurately ascertain what policies work is a mystery to me...garbage in garbage out!!!

WE won't know what the absolute cost of these severe lockdowns for years to come...in none of the scientific studies you referred to did they explore the cost of the missed cancer diagnosis, heart disease and the myriad of other serious health implications that we are not just missing, but as a consequence of our inhumane policies we are now also creating.

Penfailed

Lundstram wrote: »

No one on here said just let it rip, you seem to have conjured up that synopsis in your head. We are asking why are restrictions getting tighter while case numbers and hospital numbers are plummeting?

Restrictions are getting tighter?

Penfailed

Arghus wrote: »

It's the most unbalanced thread I've ever participated in on boards.

There have been times throughout the various manifestations of this thread that I would agree that it was one sided but recently it has become quite balanced. I find that one side shouts a bit louder though...

paw patrol

Silentcorner wrote: »

Hang on a minute, are you referring to the studies that you linked to? Full of scientific jargon, yes, full of answers? no.

We are dealing with a virus where we simply haven't a clue how many people have been infected by, so how any study can accurately ascertain what policies work is a mystery to me...garbage in garbage out!!!

WE won't know what the absolute cost of these severe lockdowns for years to come...in none of the scientific studies you referred to did they explore the cost of the missed cancer diagnosis, heart disease and the myriad of other serious health implications that we are not just missing, but as a consequence of our inhumane policies we are now also creating.

I posted last week that i know from people in the ambulance in north county Dublin that suicides are up hugely. Doubt north county Dublin is unique.

Furthermore Gript report today that 30Billion has been added to the national debt which they estimate is 47,700 per man woman and beast in Ireland.
There is no escaping the fall out of this

I know, I know......bUt PaScAl SaId:pac:
https://gript.ie/new-national-debt-thanks-to-covid-e47700-per-person/

for what? - hysteria ,a loss of any reason and a sincere lack of fortitude by the politicians and their cheerleaders.

uli84

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Wales extending lockdown by three weeks. Cases have dropped below 200 a day for first time since November.

So you still believe it’s about the virus? Because i’m starting to doubt seeing that happening

Penfailed

Windmill100000 wrote: »

While we are at varying levels of lockdown I think shops will state you have to wear a mask. It will likely be a condition of reopening and no shop is going to go against that.

My post was referring to masks 'being here to stay in public places indoors'. I can't see it.

ceadaoin.

Malcomex wrote: »

As a poster pointed out yesterday there is the issue of masks and CCTV

Government and shops won't like that long term

Governments are creeping towards surveillance and continuous monitoring in the long term

Shops for simple security reasons and identification of thieves etc.

I live in Vegas where obviously the casinos use facial identification to stop banned people entering and to monitor people etc. What they do is on entry you get your temperature checked and briefly pull your mask down. This obviously allows the cameras to "see" you and continue to track you even with your mask. So there are ways around this. Shops dont do this but I suppose its a possibility if they use the same type of tracking.

pottokblue

I wonder if the cartel of bookies will take to the above system when the shops reopen on 5th March in time for Cheltenham 2021

Kunta Kinte

pottokblue wrote: »

I wonder if the cartel of bookies will take to the above system when the shops reopen on 5th March in time for Cheltenham 2021

If they reopen on 5th March. I doubt that they will.

ceadaoin.

pottokblue wrote: »

I wonder if the cartel of bookies will take to the above system when the shops reopen on 5th March in time for Cheltenham 2021

Haha they cant afford it. Their idea of facial recognition is taping a grainy cctv picture of the offender behind the counter lol

Kunta Kinte

Penfailed wrote: »

To be fair to the guards, I've seen them out in all weather.

But but but Lundstram claimed that they sit in their cars when the weather turns wet or cold. If he states that t must be true. Sure he is always 100% correct in everything he posts about.......
















........in his own mind anyway.

SheepsClothing

Silentcorner wrote: »

Hang on a minute, are you referring to the studies that you linked to? Full of scientific jargon, yes, full of answers? no.

We are dealing with a virus where we simply haven't a clue how many people have been infected by, so how any study can accurately ascertain what policies work is a mystery to me...garbage in garbage out!!!

WE won't know what the absolute cost of these severe lockdowns for years to come...in none of the scientific studies you referred to did they explore the cost of the missed cancer diagnosis, heart disease and the myriad of other serious health implications that we are not just missing, but as a consequence of our inhumane policies we are now also creating.

You're acting like, missed cancer diagnoses, heart disease and other health issues aren't being caught because of the restrictions. The reason these screening services have had to be scaled back is, because of too much covid in the community meaning resources are having to be diverted elsewhere. This is what it looks like when you get your way.

More Covid = Less Screening.

Boggles

paw patrol wrote: »

Furthermore Gript report today

Yep, that explains quite a bit.

SheepsClothing

paw patrol wrote: »

I posted last week that i know from people in the ambulance in north county Dublin that suicides are up hugely. Doubt north county Dublin is unique.

Furthermore Gript report today that 30Billion has been added to the national debt which they estimate is 47,700 per man woman and beast in Ireland.
There is no escaping the fall out of this

I know, I know......bUt PaScAl SaId:pac:
https://gript.ie/new-national-debt-thanks-to-covid-e47700-per-person/

for what? - hysteria ,a loss of any reason and a sincere lack of fortitude by the politicians and their cheerleaders.

Well I can't comment on your mates in the ambulance service, but at least in Peru and New South Wales suicide is down:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/dec/23/nsw-suicide-rate-falls-by-remarkable-5-in-2020-lifeline-finds

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1354158362380926977

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

My post was referring to masks 'being here to stay in public places indoors'. I can't see it.

It’s likely the most cost effective measure to prevent transmission of respiratory illness, it will likely stay.

SheepsClothing

SheepsClothing wrote: »

You're acting like, missed cancer diagnoses, heart disease and other health issues aren't being caught because of the restrictions. The reason these screening services have had to be scaled back is, because of too much covid in the community meaning resources are having to be diverted elsewhere. This is what it looks like when you get your way.

More Covid = Less Screening.

A choice was made to prioritise Covid.

A choice was made to put half a million people out of work. A choice was made to interfere with our children’s education. And a choice was made to cancel screenings and treatments at various times. A choice was made to take on a huge level of national debt.

All of the above are very much because of lockdowns and restrictions.

The people that made those choices and the people that supported them now need to accept responsibility and accountability.

Arghus

Deleted User wrote: »

A choice was made to prioritise Covid.

A choice was made to put half a million people out of work. A choice was made to interfere with our children’s education. And a choice was made to cancel screenings and treatments at various times. A choice was made to take on a huge level of national debt.

All of the above are very much because of lockdowns and restrictions.

The people that made those choices and the people that supported them now need to accept responsibility and accountability.

What other choice was there in the context of an infectious disease that threatened to overwhelm the health system completely and leave thousands dead.

These choices were made in the full knowledge that they would come at a terrible cost, much of which you have outlined.

You persistently blame lockdown and restrictions for everything, but you never acknowledge that as terrible as they are/were they only exist as measures to prevent even worse outcomes.

And you never coherently outline what could and should be done differently.

You have a fantasy that there's a way through this that doesn't cause excess pain and suffering. It's all bad choices on either side.

SheepsClothing

SheepsClothing wrote: »

Well I can't comment on your mates in the ambulance service, but at least in Peru and New South Wales suicide is down:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/dec/23/nsw-suicide-rate-falls-by-remarkable-5-in-2020-lifeline-finds

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1354158362380926977

That guardian article says that "In a year marked by devastating bushfires and the coronavirus pandemic, the number of lives lost to suicide in New South Wales has unexpectedly fallen by a “remarkable” 5%." for the 12 months to November.

It also says that "Figures from the NSW health department and Victorian coroner’s courts earlier in the year indicated the suicide numbers were likely to remain relatively static compared with previous years. The latest coroner’s court figures from Victoria, covering the year to the end of September, show almost no change in the numbers compared with the two previous years."

NSW was under strict lockdown from July to October. So somehow, between September and November, suicides decreased 5% for the whole year after being on track to match the prior year. Which in fact suggests that exiting lockdown reduced the number of suicides.

No mention of Peru there. Where did you find that info?

Your man on Twitter doesn't seem to have accounted for this, from the ONS website: "Longer delays in coroner-certified deaths are expected, as during the height of the pandemic, the majority of coroner’s inquests were halted; this will especially affect deaths due to suicide and violence." and "The types of deaths that doctors are obliged to refer to coroners are where the death was unnatural, unexplained, violent, or where the death occurs in prison or otherwise in state detention."

Which isn't to say he's wrong, but the data he's working with is subject to change. Hard to tell if these same sort of delays are likely to affect the Oz numbers.

Silentcorner

Arghus wrote: »

What other choice was there in the context of an infectious disease that threatened to overwhelm the health system completely and leave thousands dead.

These choices were made in the full knowledge that they would come at a terrible cost, much of which you have outlined.

You persistently blame lockdown and restrictions for everything, but you never acknowledge that as terrible as they are/were they only exist as measures to prevent even worse outcomes.

And you never coherently outline what could and should be done differently.

It only threatened to overwhelm the system twice in nearly a year.

A system that is routinely overwhelmed year in year out.

You are not factoring in the fear that is stopping people addressing what may seem minor issues right now...unnecessary fear that has been a tool to control our behaviour for nearly a year now...a similar phenomenon is evident in our Emergency departments.

The health system has probably never seen a quieter year.