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Child Item

Ireland is a pretend football country

Did you smash it

Reading on RTE.ie that the public purse will be used to fund a white water rafting complex in the ifsc to the tune of 25 million.

This while “the home of Irish football” Dalymount park is a half condemned ruin.

It amuses me that people think Ireland is a football country because it has the highest participation rate of any sport.

Truth is we have no football economy really beyond a really small time one and no matter what the FAI do they’ll never have the ability to upgrade it as there is no financial investment or wealth in football in the country.

The public’s investment in football amounts to sky sports subscriptions and trips cross channel.

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Dyr

Omackeral wrote: »

Or another way to look at it. 99% of the countries on earth call it football.

fryup

moslo wrote: »

Not sure if there's any game that's played solely with the feet but I'm happy to be corrected.

football for the blind?

moslo

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Well football is mostly played with the feet, hence football.

+ the odd header . . .

'GOAL'

Oh, I know. I was replying to a poster who said it was played with the feet without mentioning other body parts such as head, hands and chest or saying 'played mostly with the feet' as you said.

breezy1985

Shakey_jake wrote: »

Not to get too off topic but if any organisation deserves to have a permanent stadium built its cricket ireland

Yes cricket something we are relatively decent at and would be on par with soccer in terms of global interest.

Ill also add that its ran extremely well compared to the fai

Cricket on par with soccer are you mad.
A game played by England and some of the former colonies.

Now I know you are gonna link some viewing or participating figures to prove me wrong but most of those numbers will come from one very big country.
Most of the world has never heard of cricket

Church on Tuesday

fryup wrote: »

Well apart from North America, Australia and gaelic catholic Ireland...so about 92%

Dev would be proud.

Hamsterchops

breezy1985 wrote: »

Cricket on par with soccer football are you mad.
A game played by England and some of the former colonies.

Now I know you are gonna link some viewing or participating figures to prove me wrong but most of those numbers will come from one very big country.
Most of the world has never heard of cricket

Obviously cricket isn't as big as football here in Ireland but it exists, even my children play cricket in school, there's also a cricket pitch marked out in a park close to us. Several of the 1916 rebels played cricket too, (if you want to look at it that way). And didn't the Irish cricket team beat England not so long ago?

For Forks Sake

Seve OB wrote: »

GAA = Bogball

Football = Football............. well because you play it with your feet I guess!!!

American Football = ......... well the yanks are a strange breed, a good game, but it sure as hell ain't football

breezy1985

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Obviously cricket isn't as big as football here in Ireland but it exists, even my children play cricket in school, there's also a cricket pitch marked out in a park close to us. Several of the 1916 rebels played cricket too, (if you want to look at it that way). And didn't the Irish cricket team beat England not so long ago?

All that is true but the lad I was replying to said
"on par with soccer in terms of global interest"

It is still very much a minority sport and your kids school and local park would be very unusual outside Dublin
Ide say almost every association in Ireland under the big 3 has a huge shopping list if they ever got the money. Sam Bennett just won a green jersey but it ain't gonna mean the government suddenly have mine for a velodrome

[Deleted User]

On the soccer v football word usage debate I usually defer to this article about the GAA from the UK publication The New Statesman a few years back
https://www.newstatesman.com/sport/2014/09/inflexible-nationalism-sky-sports-ireland-s-gaelic-games-have-come-long-way

The pertinent paragraph is at the bottom of the piece and is as follows

"*For the purposes of this piece, “football” is Gaelic football and “soccer” is the international sport. People in Ireland use “football”, “soccer” and “Gaelic” interchangeably depending on the context and it’s generally clear which one they’re talking about. Few get animated by the asinine “it’s football, not soccer” debate."

Breezin

Way off topic now, of course, but in general terms there is absolutely nothing wrong with calling soccer 'soccer', because it is indeed soccer. And there is nothing wrong with calling the GAA game 'football'.

What is wrong is the 'sacair' thing... , a la RTÉ, setting up an 'official' false division and never, ever calling it football other than the odd rogue mention by the likes of Tony O'Donoghue or other sound followers of the beautiful game.

Hamsterchops

Breezin wrote: »

Way off topic now, of course, but in general terms there is absolutely nothing wrong with calling soccer 'soccer', because it is indeed soccer. And there is nothing wrong with calling the GAA game 'football'.

What is wrong is the 'sacair' thing... , a la RTÉ, setting up an 'official' false division and never, ever calling it football other than the odd rogue mention by the likes of Tony O'Donoghue or other sound followers of the beautiful game.

Interesting, well yes indeed soccer is derived from the word association football, so it is soccer.

I'm always curious as to why they don't call Gaelic Football 'Peil'. I mean Gaelic football and the Irish language work together along Gaelic lines, so why use an English word to describe the Irish game?

[Deleted User]

breezy1985 wrote: »

Cricket on par with soccer are you mad.
A game played by England and some of the former colonies.

Now I know you are gonna link some viewing or participating figures to prove me wrong but most of those numbers will come from one very big country.
Most of the world has never heard of cricket

As it should, if you ever go to India you will see all ages (even old men) playing cricket in parks there. Their society is fanatical about it.

Of course it's not on a par with soccer, but it's still a massively popular sport. It's also related to an old Irish game (called Catty, apparently) and was wildly popular here until the codification of gaelic games so it's legitimately part of our heritage.

[Deleted User]

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Interesting, well yes indeed soccer is derived from the word association football, so it is soccer.

I'm always curious as to why they don't call Gaelic Football 'Peil'. I mean Gaelic football and the Irish language work together along Gaelic lines, so why use an English word to describe the Irish game?

If it was called "Peil" no one in the West Kerry Gaeltacht would have a clue what you are on about.

It's actually called "Caid" back there.

Some of the most decorated, accomplished, famous, native Irish speaking, Kerry footballers of all time never played a game of "Peil" in their life.

Hamsterchops

So why isn't Gaelic football called 'Caid' then?

Why use the English description for a Gaelic game?

Tombo2001

tastyt wrote: »

This is such a bigger issue than people realise . Even if they don’t know it a lot of people have a county tribal feeling that they have been listening to since primary school, primarily thorough GAA.

There’s a lot of people who would love a league of Ireland team to support but as said above it doesn’t feel right supporting Waterford if from Kilkenny, Sligo or Galway if from Mayo , Limerick if you are from Tipp etc

Now you can call it stupid and say teams in these areas wouldn’t work , and they wouldn’t work overnight but it’s a long road to fix our football problem.

Our culture is a county colours/pride one in so many areas whether we like it or not. The majority of people will not support a team from a different county

Never thought of that.

So you can support a team in a different country, Liverpool or Watford or whatever.

But not a team 20 miles down the road.

Having said that:
A lot of Leinster people supported Munster in the rugby
In the UK, a lot of London people support Man U (supposedly).

Its notable that many of the LOIs best regional teams historically are in large towns in weak GAA counties. Longford, Sligo, Dundalk, Bray, Athlone.

Another notable is Monaghan Town - I wonder is its demise related to that county's enormous improvement in the GAA.

breezy1985

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So why isn't Gaelic football called 'Caid' then?

Why use the English description for a Gaelic game?

Football and hurling began to be codified in the very early days of the gaelic revival and the English words were used as it was just what people knew.
Fast forward a number of years to the formation of Camogie and the Irish name is used because at this stage in the cultural development of the country people were more conscious of these things

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

breezy1985 wrote: »

Cricket on par with soccer are you mad.
A game played by England and some of the former colonies.

Now I know you are gonna link some viewing or participating figures to prove me wrong but most of those numbers will come from one very big country.
Most of the world has never heard of cricket

This is very true. It's totally unknown in most countries. They've never even seen a cricket bat on TV.

Rugby, despite having fewer players, is more globally known for whatever reason.

doublejobbing 2

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

All the ex-United fans will be dusting off their old jersey, stretching it over their protruding gut and saving their money for the pub on Sundays shouting at the TV.

.

I dunno. I think there's been an unfixable break in barstool fanaticism in this country.

I know Covid took the winds out of the sails but I think 10 years ago Liverpool winning a league would have half resembled Italia 90 here, embasassing as that is.

You can go into a pub (pre Covid) on a NW derby day in the suburbs (town still gets a crowd) and find 20 people in watching. While part of it is because streaming/ dodgyboxes are a more realistic tool than 15 years ago, I can't help think it is also that a great deal of "fans" couldn't care less anymore. Years ago you would struggle to get standing room never mind a seat. The amount of derbys that are damp squibs doesn't help. The last one I watched was the effective decider between Liverpool and City in early 2019, the last days of O'Neill's Ireland were more entertaining than that.

People seem to still buy football jerseys but nobody wears them around the streets or in pubs as casual wear the way they did until 10 odd years ago.

Of course, Liverpool having been consistently awful from circa 2011 to 2019, and Utd being the same from 2013 to the present (current season a fluke) had a lot to do with it as well.

landofthetree

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I dunno. I think there's been an unfixable break in barstool fanaticism in this country.

I know Covid took the winds out of the sails but I think 10 years ago Liverpool winning a league would have half resembled Italia 90 here, embasassing as that is.

You can go into a pub (pre Covid) on a NW derby day in the suburbs (town still gets a crowd) and find 20 people in watching. While part of it is because streaming/ dodgyboxes are a more realistic tool than 15 years ago, I can't help think it is also that a great deal of "fans" couldn't care less anymore. Years ago you would struggle to get standing room never mind a seat. The amount of derbys that are damp squibs doesn't help. The last one I watched was the effective decider between Liverpool and City in early 2019, the last days of O'Neill's Ireland were more entertaining than that.

People seem to still buy football jerseys but nobody wears them around the streets or in pubs as casual wear the way they did until 10 odd years ago.

Of course, Liverpool having been consistently awful from circa 2011 to 2019, and Utd being the same from 2013 to the present (current season a fluke) had a lot to do with it as well.

It's not a fluke. Only 4 teams can ever win the PL when you look at what they spend. Torypool,UAE funded team, rotten meat fc* and Chelski. So they are bound to come back.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Edwards#Meat_contracts_corruption_and_malpractice

Just like Rangers coming back in Scotland.

[Deleted User]

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I dunno. I think there's been an unfixable break in barstool fanaticism in this country.

I know Covid took the winds out of the sails but I think 10 years ago Liverpool winning a league would have half resembled Italia 90 here, embasassing as that is.

One of the weirdest things of last summer in an exceptionally weird year was seeing Liverpool flags actually flying on flagpoles outside houses on a drive through Munster. How did that ever become a thing, wouldn't you actually be crawling with shame as you hoisted the flag? (Assuming you are an adult)

Wasn't a one off either, right through Clare, Limerick and Kerry they were actually fairly frequent.

I don't mind lads following their team and winning the league was massive, but flying flags of a football team from a different country is actually incomprehensible to me.

doublejobbing 2

Deleted User wrote: »

One of the weirdest things of last summer in an exceptionally weird year was seeing Liverpool flags actually flying on flagpoles outside houses on a drive through Munster. How did that ever become a thing, wouldn't you actually be crawling with shame as you hoisted the flag? (Assuming you are an adult)

Wasn't a one off either, right through Clare, Limerick and Kerry they were actually fairly frequent.

I don't mind lads following their team and winning the league was massive, but flying flags of a football team from a different country is actually incomprehensible to me.

Actual Liverpudlans are no doubt glad of the money their global reach brings in, but they must scratch their heads wondering WTF the Irish are on when they see this type of thing.

[Deleted User]

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Actual Liverpudlans are no doubt glad of the money their global reach brings in, but they must scratch their heads wondering WTF the Irish are on when they see this type of thing.

I have finally accepted there is an age when a man must set his replica jersey aside...

IAMAMORON

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Fair point(s), I, but if I’m honest, I’ve always found the Pats and, in particular, Shels fans to be fairly sound.

Contrast that with Rovers and, in particular, Bohs fans, though. Insufferable, and aggressive, would be the most accurate “terms” I’d apply to them. Best avoided, especially at the bar.

I don't want to get too tribal on things Spice.

That is the problem with soccer, it is rarely left on the pitch.

I am frankly delighted with my sports diet of international rugby, soccer ( any excuse to hit the pub midweek - i secretly rarely watch ), racing and the GAA ( summer only ). I love watching the Tour De France - if only to drool over the French countryside. Wimbledon is free - I really enjoy the womens' doubles in particular , I am distinctly sleazy when it comes to women's tennis.

In saying that I don't harbour the same dirty thoughts about the ladies international soccer team, don't ask, but I think if they wore mini skirts like the Netball, hockey and Tennis girls do it could make a difference, just saying.

If anyone reading is having difficultly in burning their premiership jerseys and getting on with their lives just send me a pm, I am more than happy to call over with a bin and a little lighter fluid and oblige you. Free yourself from mental slavery, you deserve it.

WesternZulu

[Deleted User] wrote: »

One of the weirdest things of last summer in an exceptionally weird year was seeing Liverpool flags actually flying on flagpoles outside houses on a drive through Munster. How did that ever become a thing, wouldn't you actually be crawling with shame as you hoisted the flag? (Assuming you are an adult)

Wasn't a one off either, right through Clare, Limerick and Kerry they were actually fairly frequent.

I don't mind lads following their team and winning the league was massive, but flying flags of a football team from a different country is actually incomprehensible to me.

It wasn't just Munster, saw the same in N. Mayo during the summer.

I like the EPL as much as the next man but I cringed anytime I passed a house that had a Liverpool flag hoisted outside.

The car parade of Liverpool fans in Kerry took the biscuit though. If you weren't from Ireland you'd be thinking WTF is going on here.

landofthetree

I read a great little thesis/project online on Irish people supporting Everton/Liverpool. Unfortunately its behind a paywall now.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02619288.2018.1490647?scroll=top&needAccess=true

Of course there was always Irish people going to live in the UK and following teams.

But it seems that for Irish residents it really started in the 1950s. Dubliners would take the ferry over to England to watch matches.

As Liverpool was the easiest city to get to going to watch Everton was the very popular option.

The Everton team had a few Irishmen playing and managed by Dubliner Johnny Carey. Plus Liverpool fc were in the second flight.

Another source confirms the story.

https://books.google.ie/books?id=J5oqBHq0XrEC&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=everton+supporters+club+Dublin+1950s&source=bl&ots=uFAwKNHer6&sig=ACfU3U2mmfUqmzedmyn_lms-1sNpIDFnyg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjeyvqV3qjuAhUXUd4KHXi_C4M4HhDoATAHegQICBAB#v=onepage&q=everton%20supporters%20club%20Dublin%201950s&f=false

IAMAMORON

Shakey_jake wrote: »

Not to get too off topic but if any organisation deserves to have a permanent stadium built its cricket ireland

Yes cricket something we are relatively decent at and would be on par with soccer in terms of global interest.

Ill also add that its ran extremely well compared to the fai

I went to the one day game against England a few years back. Corporate vibe. I thought the facilities were fine and it was good to get out and see Malahide.

I doubt building a cricket ground is really what we need. Having lived in London I get it. I mean the Brits have a cricket culture, we have a team etc, but we don't have a big enough culture to warrant building an international stadium.

The Brits spend the whole day at a match, they bring picnic hampers, skull wine all day - it is a day out. The barmy army was invented after 5 o'clock on a cricket pitch - it is their vibe. I just don't think we have that in Ireland, for better or for worse.

IAMAMORON

Feenix wrote: »

You've mentioned this twice now and I still dont know if you're taking the piss or not.

In fairness Spiceland is bang on the ball here. There are oodles of former Man U fans hanging around Phibsboro or Drumcondra midsummer, pretending to follow Bohs or Shelbourne. They have the same traits - they drink and muse over craft beer, this is a throw back from the prawn brigade. They don't smoke fags, yet they puff away on decarbonated non smoking hydro cannabis pipes. They generally have hipster beards and are an embarrassment to their girlfriends - who love them dearly.

But they get a pass because they are doing the correct thing and trying to get behind their local team - I like that. It is much better than polluting your local of a Sunday evening roaring English soccer chants at a 42 inch screen in the corner - I mean what are they doing with their lives ?

breezy1985

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

People seem to still buy football jerseys but nobody wears them around the streets or in pubs as casual wear the way they did until 10 odd years ago.
.

The amount of Irish people you see wearing jerseys heading out to the pub is heartbreaking and I don't just mean soccer ones and I am talking about days when there was no match on.

I can't think of another country that does it

cms88

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Never thought of that.

So you can support a team in a different country, Liverpool or Watford or whatever.

But not a team 20 miles down the road.

Having said that:
A lot of Leinster people supported Munster in the rugby
In the UK, a lot of London people support Man U (supposedly).

Its notable that many of the LOIs best regional teams historically are in large towns in weak GAA counties. Longford, Sligo, Dundalk, Bray, Athlone.

Another notable is Monaghan Town - I wonder is its demise related to that county's enormous improvement in the GAA.

I remember at the time they went out of business a fella was interviewed. He was saying how he met someone he knew and he was saying to him how terrable it was etc but then said ''but i never went to games myself'' said while wearing a Man Utd tracksuit

[Deleted User]

WesternZulu wrote: »

It wasn't just Munster, saw the same in N. Mayo during the summer.

I like the EPL as much as the next man but I cringed anytime I passed a house that had a Liverpool flag hoisted outside.

The car parade of Liverpool fans in Kerry took the biscuit though. If you weren't from Ireland you'd be thinking WTF is going on here.

The guy who organized it is off the charts Liverpool fanatic thought.

I've meet my share of Irish fans of English clubs but this guy is in a league of his own.

The gates to his house are replicas of the Shankley Gates in Liverpool.

He lead the u10s from the soccer club he trains up the main street of the town in the St Patrick's day parade a few years ago shouting something like "Up the reds boo Man U'.

I was talking to another parent outside the fence at the kids soccer training one morning about some match or other were a team came from behind in a game.
And he (the Liverpool fanatic) turns to us and says something like "that was like what we did in 2005".
I thought he was talking about the local soccer team, but it turns out he was referring to Liverpool when he meant we.