Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

druss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117803276#Comment_117803276

That's where I was going with the chemical example as well.

Industry started with an attitute of "Brexit isn't good, but we will be able to mitigate this with some common sense discussion and pragmatism". They were consulted. And consulted again. They gradually began to realise that anything which looked like alignment with EU standards would not be politically acceptable, no matter how economically beneficial. I don't imagine that the relevant Department officials didn't understand and sympathise.

We have seen other examples where UK officials have advised UK companies with significant EU exposure on how to open mirror companies in EU, which is a rather pragmatic solution to unpragmatic policy.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117800670#Comment_117800670

IR35 means the UK govt are cracking down on "self employed" https://www.theregister.com/Tag/ir35

Average age of truck drivers in the UK is about 56 :eek:

Younger drivers, unless their partner has a job that can pay for a childminder can't start a family, because their hours are too varied and the pay sucks. HGV drivers used to make 50% more than shelf stackers, now it's about 25%.

Haulage companies entered a race to the bottom and are now reaping their rewards.

joeysoap

C4 last night. There’s a shortage of 100,000 drivers. 14,000 Brexit related, 30,000 covid related. The balance? wages related.

Enzokk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804410#Comment_117804410

Is that wage related in that they are not paid enough to put up with Brexit related issues?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807353#Comment_117807353

I was reading somewhere today that pay for EU drivers used to be generous, but for some reason has dropped to a pittance in recent times (not sure whether that is Brexit or Tory Party related).

RobMc59

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807353#Comment_117807353

Talking to a tanker driver delivering specialist chemicals from the continent yesterday who told me most of the Romanian HGV drivers had gone home.He also mentioned a well known catalogue outlet is offering £34 an hour in an attempt to recruit new drivers.According to him,the claim continental drivers are better paid is untrue.

An Ciarraioch

Barnier has declared for the Republican primary on the road to the Élysee, but the problem is that he's too centrist for most within his own party, and too far to the right to win over those already backing Macron:

https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2021/08/26/presidentielle-l-ancien-commissaire-europeen-michel-barnier-est-candidat-a-la-primaire-de-la-droite_6092455_823448.html

joeysoap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117807353#Comment_117807353

They will do everything to lay the blame elsewhere. Just compared their wages now with supermarket workers.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Please don't just paste videos here. Post removed.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117811648#Comment_117811648

boise? Autocorrect of 'abide?'

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117812266#Comment_117812266

Idaho pe so.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117804020#Comment_117804020

Farms face an oversupply of pigs due to staff shortage at abattoirs. 15,000 pigs a week, that have to be fed. And extra charges by abattoirs if the pigs are overweight. "If the government doesn't do something soon there will be a lot of perfectly healthy pigs on farms that will have to be destroyed"

And if the meat isn't processed the shortfall will have to be imported form the EU.

"They've upped wages but there are a good proportion of people that left after Brexit and you can't just fill those jobs with thin air," ... up to 80% of staff at meat processing plants are non-UK workers.

It's only August and already Christmas dinner may be affected as there are problems with Turkey supplies too.

The news on the veg front wasn't good either due to lack of workers.

tanko

Remember the “they’re coming here taking our jobs”, you know those jobs that we are too lazy to do ourselves. You couldn’t make it up.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117812319#Comment_117812319

Ha

Sam Russell

I do not think it is laziness per se - more poor working conditions and low pay. Of course, low prospects does not add to the job - probably better off on the dole.

Strazdas

I'm seeing lots of stuff on social media from Brexiteers that they voted Leave in order to stop EU migrant workers being exploited and to force up low UK wages to a more respectable rate. No idea why this claim has suddenly come to the fore in August 2021, when it was was one of the less discussed things in the referendum campaign.

pleasant Co.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117812994#Comment_117812994

I believe that's commonly referred to under the idiom "Clutching at Straws"

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117813202#Comment_117813202

I guess they're trying to spin it now that they voted Leave for 'noble' reasons, but it's rather bit weird to see the claim surface in 2021. If you look at Vote Leave's referendum literature, this aspect barely got even the slightest mention (it was all about 'taking back control', stop sending money to the EU, take control of the borders, sign new trade deals, get rid of the ECJ etc).

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117812934#Comment_117812934

Its the converse of the lazy uneducated immigrant fallacy who at the same time is stealing all the jobs. IE the new fallacy of the supremely educated, hyper motivated englishman who will do all the jobs that pay a pittence.

Professor Moriarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117813941#Comment_117813941

Ironically, immigrants from Ireland are no longer stupid and lazy drunks. Today, white Irish workers earn 41% more than white British workers.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117812965#Comment_117812965

The Tory solution to this will inevitably be to reduce the Dole or cut people off benefits if they do not take these jobs

about 1.5 million unemployed in the UK, would be the Tory wet dream to have all of them off the dole picking fruit and driving trucks and slaughtering animals for minimum wage

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117814109#Comment_117814109

Why shouldn't they be turfed off the dole and onto picking fruit?

If they are taking opportunities to retain and upskill while on the dole, fair enough. But if not and they are laying on the scratcher all day, put them to use.

I can't believe you think putting people to work for a living is a bad thing.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117814338#Comment_117814338

if the reason why there are so few workers is because the working conditions are so poor then there needs to be an improvement in those working conditions rather than forcing people to take those jobs or face homeless and starvation

The actual reason there are labour shortages is because the low wage in the UK corresponds to higher wages in Eastern Europe. Migrant workers can earn more in a few months of minimum wage work in the UK than a full year at home, (minimum wage in Bulgaria for example is below 2 euros an hour) so the conditions are attractive to them. On the UK with UK living costs minimum wage is not enough to support a family

for skilled jobs such as HGV truck driving, it takes a long time and a lot of money to get the necessary qualifications and the working hours and conditions are definitely only suited to a certain personality types and people without certain family commitments who can cope with the distance and isolation of life on the road

Leroy42

I see some commentators are saying that rather than Brexit being to blame, Brexit is actually showing up the conditions that were being taken advantage of my companies.

That this gives the perfect opportunity to reshape the different industries and shows that these industries have been abusing the availability of abundant labour from Europe.

And all that sounds great. Except that, as usual, the UK government have done nothing to plan for any of this. This goes back to Davis infamous industry reports, which they never actually did. They could have started training UK people 5 years ago to be ready for these outcomes.

But they have done nothing. No plan. No policy idea. Their only 'solution' is to pay drivers more. This from a government that deemed a 1% payrise to NHS to be sufficient!

They could have increased HGV course availability, set up apprenticeships for the type of jobs required.

But Brexit is all about not planning.

Sam Russell

Have they employed the 50,000 customs officers yet?

How many of the customs clearance agents are available?

I think that the likely answer will indicate the likely approach to HGV driver requirements and how they will be filled - or not.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117814109#Comment_117814109

It's the wet dream of plenty here in Ireland to.

You sometimes can't move for the "why are Bulgarians coming over to work for Keelings and so many are long term unemployed" type threads around these boards.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117814338#Comment_117814338

A lot of those on the dole would probably be virtually unemployable. Too old, too unfit, overweight, some with mental health or physical health issues etc. The idea that there are millions of healthy, fit, adaptable and versatile people signing on just waiting to be snapped up and sent into action would be extremely inaccurate.

Sam Russell

Any long term unemployed tend to be unemployable without significant support, both financial and social.

Take someone over fifty, unemployed for more than a few years would find it hard to pick fruit or train to be an hgv driver. Might be OK as a customs guy though.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117815018#Comment_117815018

Immigration was working well in this regard as there was a constant supply of fit and healthy workers willing to work hard. But Leave voters were told by the Dail Mail and Daily Express that such workers were surplus to requirements and a 'burden' to the country.

Sam Russell

Well the lied. It is/was the English long term unemployed who are/were a burden on the state. The Eastern European workers were net contributors, and were much healthier, and generally worked harder.