Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

RobMc59 · 01-07-2021 1:11pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There aren't a lot on these forums who say they are British or identify as British but most of them I have read state that they were anti Brexit but ardently defend what the British government has done since it.

That seems farcical to me. To turn around then and blame the EU for not getting rid of the Brexiters on their behalf is just fabulous.

I certainly don't expect the EU to get rid of those behind brexit and defending your country is different from agreeing with what the current UK government is/has done.

Edit:why do you think there's not many British posters on these forums?

FrancieBrady · 01-07-2021 1:22pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

I certainly don't expect the EU to get rid of those behind brexit and defending your country is different from agreeing with what the current UK government is/has done.

You have been defending what your country has been doing, but you are not agreeing with what Brexiters have done?

Does not compute. Sorry.

01-07-2021 1:30pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have been defending what your country has been doing, but you are not agreeing with what Brexiters have done?

Does not compute. Sorry.

Try computing it differently.

Just imagine the Irish Government went down a route that foreigners considered really stupid!
Would you ,

A, defend Ireland
B, agree with the foreigner.

?

RobMc59 · 01-07-2021 1:30pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have been defending what your country has been doing, but you are not agreeing with what Brexiters have done?

Does not compute. Sorry.

I don't agree with you on the majority of characters and actions you defend but you're entitled to do that Francie.

ancapailldorcha · 01-07-2021 1:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Try computing it differently.

Just imagine the Irish Government went down a route that foreigners considered really stupid!
Would you ,

A, defend Ireland
B, agree with the foreigner.

?

C. Judge what was said and form an opinion of my own.

01-07-2021 1:31pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

C. Judge what was said and form an opinion of my own.

The question had a binary answer, one or the other.

ancapailldorcha · 01-07-2021 1:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The question had a binary answer, one or the other.

Ie, a false dichotomy.

01-07-2021 1:36pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Ie, a false dichotomy.

Like much of political discussion, twisting a straight question into something else entirely.

timetogo1 · 01-07-2021 1:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Try computing it differently.

Just imagine the Irish Government went down a route that foreigners considered really stupid!
Would you ,

A, defend Ireland
B, agree with the foreigner.

?

So you'd defend Ireland just because it's Ireland rather than criticise something because "foreigners". I think there's a term for that.
Admittedly I do think a lot in the UK do actually think like that.

Strazdas · 01-07-2021 1:39pm

Winters wrote: »

DUP still not equating the NIP with Brexit.

#facepalm

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/0701/1232362-alex-easton-dup/

But it's becoming increasingly clear that almost nobody is even listening to the DUP and hardcore loyalists with their "Ireland and the EU are to blame for the Protocol" spiel.

This is precisely the reason they are losing support in the province. Anyone can see Johnson and Frost (plus Brexit itself) are the problem.

01-07-2021 1:43pm

timetogo1 wrote: »

So you'd defend Ireland just because it's Ireland rather than criticise something because "foreigners". I think there's a term for that.
Admittedly I do think a lot in the UK do actually think like that.

Which is precisely why I phrased the question like that so people can compute why others have different opinions to theirs.

ancapailldorcha · 01-07-2021 1:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Like much of political discussion, twisting a straight question into something else entirely.

Only when you take a complex situation and try to simplify it for the sole purpose of making a point. The idea that I should slavishly adhere to whatever either the Irish state or anyone else says is absurd and this is the premise of your argument.

Nate--IRL-- · 01-07-2021 1:49pm

Theories abound online that this is being snuck out under the Sunderland announcement.

https://twitter.com/ITVJoel/status/1410518270319468545?s=20

I'd like to think they have something in mind for the financial services other than a shrug of the shoulders.

Nate

lawred2 · 01-07-2021 1:54pm

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

Theories abound online that this is being snuck out under the Sunderland announcement.

https://twitter.com/ITVJoel/status/1410518270319468545?s=20

I'd like to think they have something in mind for the financial services other than a shrug of the shoulders.

Nate

Do they truly want equivalence?

I thought Singapore on Thames was the plan!?

breatheme · 01-07-2021 2:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Half arsed! They've the highest rate of vaccination in Europe.

Every single time I've checked this year, Spain has had a higher vaccination rate. When you count fully vaccinated people, that is.

The UK was warned that spacing the shots could lead to vaccine-resistant strains.

Then their bet paid off, but only for a while. Look at them now.

Sam Russell · 01-07-2021 2:02pm

Winters wrote: »

DUP still not equating the NIP with Brexit.

Mr Donaldson said the Irish Government "could not have its cake and eat it" in respect of its position on the Northern Ireland Protocol.

#facepalm

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/0701/1232362-alex-easton-dup/

I think that he thinks the NI protocol is Leo's baby, and not a part of the WA between the UK Gov and the EU. The Irish Gov involvement is only that they are part of the EU along with 26 other states who have shown incredible agreement that the NI protocol stays.

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

01-07-2021 2:12pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Only when you take a complex situation and try to simplify it for the sole purpose of making a point. The idea that I should slavishly adhere to whatever either the Irish state or anyone else says is absurd and this is the premise of your argument.

I am referring to the point that "it does not compute", so I provided that answer.
It is about people not understanding why others have a different outlook that they cannot understand, phrase the question differently and the reason for their lack of understanding becomes clear.

01-07-2021 2:22pm

breatheme wrote: »

Every single time I've checked this year, Spain has had a higher vaccination rate. When you count fully vaccinated people, that is.

The UK was warned that spacing the shots could lead to vaccine-resistant strains.

Then their bet paid off, but only for a while. Look at them now.

Incorrect, from this website, https://covid19.who.int/
The latest stats

Spain 78.9 total doses per 100 of population, 49% have at least 1 one dose

UK 109 total doses per 100 of population, a significantly higher percentage of the population have at lease one dose 63% have at least 1 one dose

FrancieBrady · 01-07-2021 2:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Try computing it differently.

Just imagine the Irish Government went down a route that foreigners considered really stupid!
Would you ,

A, defend Ireland
B, agree with the foreigner.

?

There is a fundamental flaw in 'defending what your country is doing while decrying what Brexiters are doing to and with the country'.

You cannot do both. Rob is more vocal in blaming the EU than he is the government of his own country and what they are doing. Some would say he is constantly defending what they are doing.

CelticRambler · 01-07-2021 2:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Try computing it differently.

Just imagine the Irish Government went down a route that foreigners considered really stupid!
Would you ,

A, defend Ireland
B, agree with the foreigner.

?

Well, we have two examples of that in the recent past, with regards to decisions made (or not made) by this Irish government and the previous one in respect of Covid restrictions (the FG "Chelthenham" question, and the FF "Christmas" decision). In both cases, the route chosen was really stupid, and in both cases I would have agreed with any foreigners who said so and "punished" Ireland for such stupidity.

That doesn't mean I can't also hold the belief that the Irish diplomatic service and department of foreign affairs has done a remarkable job on the European and international stage.

With regards to Brexit, though, and the UK government, the tables are not turned: the wholesale trashing of Britain's reputation and influence globally has not been matched by anything positive at home or abroad, and there's no real evidence that the British people are doing anything to fix the situation. Pretty much all of the opinion polls indicate that the majority of the electorate are fully prepared to put up and shut up, because ... well, "it is what it is, innit?."

RobMc59 · 01-07-2021 2:47pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is a fundamental flaw in 'defending what your country is doing while decrying what Brexiters are doing to and with the country'.

You cannot do both. Rob is more vocal in blaming the EU than he is the government of his own country and what they are doing. Some would say he is constantly defending what they are doing.

Defending your country is different from defending what your country is doing. You're twisting words to suit your theories.

I do criticise the EU over some things but agree it's good points far outweigh any concerns I have about it (rather like the AZ vaccine!)and would rather the UK was still a member.

ancapailldorcha · 01-07-2021 3:11pm

Mod: Take the Covid-specific stuff to the Coronavirus forum please.

fash · 01-07-2021 3:39pm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/06/30/brussels-refuses-give-city-market-access-exchange-deal-northern/

So a naked hostage/blackmail situation all along - why am I not surprised at all.

wexfordman2 · 01-07-2021 4:20pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It isn't really though. Brexit was never about jobs. That was just rhetoric to cover up the fact that few people in general had any real knowledge of the EU or the UK's place within it.

fash wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/06/30/brussels-refuses-give-city-market-access-exchange-deal-northern
So a naked hostage/blackmail situation all along - why am I not surprised at all.

Could you fix the link its not working

BlitzKrieg · 01-07-2021 4:32pm

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

Theories abound online that this is being snuck out under the Sunderland announcement.

https://twitter.com/ITVJoel/status/1410518270319468545?s=20

I'd like to think they have something in mind for the financial services other than a shrug of the shoulders.

Nate

Not really a theory and more a trend at this point.

Every time Brexit is giving the UK bad press they drop an over inflated story in an attempt to bury the bad news.

The worry is a lot of these success stories tend to (because they're needed now) come with big caveats in the long run, such as huge costs to taxpayers or selling out farmers/fishermen)

The genius of a lot of the announcements is that they are simple easy to promote ideas of 'Trade deal, jobs, vaccines' while a lot of the negative press they are burying tend to be more complicated with no immediate impact.

So it sells easily and you get muppets on twitter tweeting "#brexitbritain 3000 jobs at nissan! remoaners were wrong!"

FrancieBrady · 01-07-2021 4:37pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Defending your country is different from defending what your country is doing. You're twisting words to suit your theories.

I do criticise the EU over some things but agree it's good points far outweigh any concerns I have about it (rather like the AZ vaccine!)and would rather the UK was still a member.

Not evident in your posting unfortunately. And I am not the only one to point it out.

Nobody here is attacking 'your country' btw they are attacking those leading your country to where it is now and those supporting that journey.

01-07-2021 4:50pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Could you fix the link its not working

It does if you copy paste

Capt'n Midnight · 01-07-2021 4:59pm

With a few hours to the deadline the UK has overruled it's own trade advisors and has extended EU era steel industry protections to keep jobs , as requested by Labour

But the 25% tariff on imports over the quota have nothing to do with Brexit
Trade Secretary Liz Truss said the move would defend jobs in the UK's steel sector amid uncertainty due to Covid.

RobMc59 · 01-07-2021 6:30pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

With a few hours to the deadline the UK has overruled it's own trade advisors and has extended EU era steel industry protections to keep jobs , as requested by Labour

But the 25% tariff on imports over the quota have nothing to do with Brexit
Trade Secretary Liz Truss said the move would defend jobs in the UK's steel sector amid uncertainty due to Covid.

All of which suggests that the penny might be dropping that alignment with EU standards is'nt just easier on the pocket but less hassle as well!

J Mysterio · 01-07-2021 6:32pm

storker wrote: »

If the Act of Union is repealed does that make Northern Ireland an independent state that can apply for EU membership independently of the UK?

I think the 'repeal' language is incorrect. Is it it not 'overridden', or 'superceded' and even then, 'in parts'.

On another note, Mairead McGuiness with some interesting comments today:

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1410641652339838982?s=20

i.e. We can't trust you. You must prove yourself trustworthy or show us how you operate before we will consider equivelance.

Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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