Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Indestructable

EU invoke article 16 in relation to the vaccine. What are the consequences of this? Arlene ain't happy, but that's nothing new.

Edit: She's even said the EU has placed a hard border on the island.

tubercolossus

Chris Grey's Brexit blog:

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2021/01/this-period-will-shape-post-brexit.html


"Brexit creates new barriers to trade with the EU and so suppresses trade with the EU. As I argued in a piece in Byline Times this week these barriers are in the process of becoming structurally embedded, and small firms are the biggest losers (£). Of course it may, now, be creating new opportunities – for customs agents, say, as when the government said Brexit was ‘growing the customs sector’, or for staff at Kent lorry parks – but it would be perverse to call these, in any substantive sense, ‘benefits’.

That is not to deny that there are numerous business benefits of Brexit. It’s just that they don’t accrue to British businesses and people. EU countries are the happy beneficiaries of financial services leaving London (£). Irish ferry companies are mopping up business by creating new routes to bypass Brexit Britain to the detriment of Welsh ports (activity through Holyhead has dropped by 50% and through Fishguard by a whopping 75% since the end of the transition period). Dutch, and no doubt other, warehousing and logistics firms are experiencing a boom as UK firms seeks bases in the EU."

Bolding mine.

Podge_irl

Indestructable wrote: »

EU invoke article 16 in relation to the vaccine. What are the consequences of this? Arlene ain't happy, but that's nothing new.

Edit: She's even said the EU has placed a hard border on the island.

Absolutely braindead move by the EU and a massive kick in the teeth to the NI protocol. Possibly enough to kill it completely. After remaining steadfast for so long in support for the GFA and the All Island economy they have destroyed much of that work in one fell swoop to cover up for their own screw ups.

Patser

Just had my own 1st personal Brexit effect.

Clothes I ordered from MandM, which have spent the last month in DPD transit hell, and arrived in Athlone distribution centre on Tuesday..... are now back on their way to the UK, with MandM saying it's an Irish Customs issue, which means they've to come back, be re-registered and resent. And it's not just mine, they mentioned a large amount of sales made pre-17th January.

Not sure who bears the cost here - DPD, MandM - but it'll definitely make me rethink ordering, and undoubtedly affect sales let alone costs

sondagefaux

Indestructable wrote: »

EU invoke article 16 in relation to the vaccine. What are the consequences of this? Arlene ain't happy, but that's nothing new.

Edit: She's even said the EU has placed a hard border on the island.

It contradicts the earlier exemption for Northern Ireland.

I suspect it'll be rescinded pretty quickly.

tubercolossus

Podge_irl wrote: »

Absolutely braindead move by the EU and a massive kick in the teeth to the NI protocol. Possibly enough to kill it completely. After remaining steadfast for so long in support for the GFA and the All Island economy they have destroyed much of that work in one fell swoop to cover up for their own screw ups.

You might be overstating things just a tad there. Article 16 is part of the protocol. How can invoking it, in a you might say 'very specific and limited way', possibly 'kill it completely'?

And please detail these 'screw-ups'.

Podge_irl

tubercolossus wrote: »

You might be overstating things just a tad there. Article 16 is part of the protocol. How can invoking it, in a you might say 'very specific and limited way', possibly 'kill it completely'?

And please detail these 'screw-ups'.

Because they have no set the standard for invoking the protocol as "cause we feel like it cause we might have screwed up". There is zero incentive for the UK not to invoke it going forth for the massive customs problems they have. Regardless of the ins and outs and legalities, something has gone awry in the EU vaccination setup and I get the impression this is a massively misplaced attempt at a show of strength.

sondagefaux

Patser wrote: »

Just had my own 1st personal Brexit effect.

Clothes I ordered from MandM, which have spent the last month in DPD transit hell, and arrived in Athlone distribution centre on Tuesday..... are now back on their way to the UK, with MandM saying it's an Irish Customs issue, which means they've to come back, be re-registered and resent. And it's not just mine, they mentioned a large amount of sales made pre-17th January.

Not sure who bears the cost here - DPD, MandM - but it'll definitely make me rethink ordering, and undoubtedly affect sales let alone costs

Who needs the hassle of buying from Britain? Buy from Ireland or the rest of the EU.

tubercolossus

Podge_irl wrote: »

Because they have no set the standard for invoking the protocol as "cause we feel like it cause we might have screwed up". There is zero incentive for the UK not to invoke it going forth for the massive customs problems they have. Regardless of the ins and outs and legalities, something has gone awry in the EU vaccination setup and I get the impression this is a massively misplaced attempt at a show of strength.

Putting words that nobody uttered in quotes doesn't confer authenticity. And you keep saying 'screw up' without providing any evidence. The Brits have no cause to invoke A16 because the customs problems were utterly predictable and expected. It can be invoked for something unexpected that poses an unanticipated problem. The EU aren't known for not having their ducks in a row. No doubt there's an element of muscle-flexing going on. And I doubt it'll be the last. They won't forgive AZ for shafting them in a hurry. What puzzles me is why AZ are doing this. Who in their right mind would cosy up to Johnson and his gang of fanatics over the EU?

Mr.Nice Guy

This is a huge gaffe on the part of the EU that risks souring relations further in NI. Even pro-EU parties are speaking out about it:

https://twitter.com/columeastwood/status/1355220946903306240

https://twitter.com/StephenFarryMP/status/1355208341820231680

https://twitter.com/naomi_long/status/1355209174062411776

https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1355232639804993539


Such an unnecessary own goal that will prove a gift to the likes of the DUP.

Podge_irl

tubercolossus wrote: »

Putting words that nobody uttered in quotes doesn't confer authenticity. And you keep saying 'screw up' without providing any evidence. The Brits have no cause to invoke A16 because the customs problems were utterly predictable and expected. It can be invoked for something unexpected that poses an unanticipated problem. The EU aren't known for not having their ducks in a row. No doubt there's an element of muscle-flexing going on. And I doubt it'll be the last. They won't forgive AZ for shafting them in a hurry. What puzzles me is why AZ are doing this. Who in their right mind would cosy up to Johnson and his gang of fanatics over the EU?

The EU are invoking the protocol for something that hasn't even happened yet and for which there is no evidence it will happen.

It sets the bar for invoking the protocol incredibly low and completely undermines it.

sondagefaux

sondagefaux wrote: »

It contradicts the earlier exemption for Northern Ireland.

I suspect it'll be rescinded pretty quickly.

Et voila...

The Commission screwed up.

They're getting an earful from Martin.

Mary Regan @MaryERegan
NEW: The Taoiseach @MichealMartinTD has been in contact with the EU Commission President
@vonderleyen to raise concerns about the decision to override part of the Northern Ireland Brexit protocol in order to block vaccines entering the North @rtenews

https://mobile.twitter.com/MaryERegan/status/1355228339859030024

RobMc59

Lemming wrote: »

Did you read that article?

No,its true I worked for a French pharmaceutical company that was manufacturing an intermediate for astra zeneca.

FrancieBrady

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

This is a huge gaffe on the part of the EU that risks souring relations further in NI. Even pro-EU parties are speaking out about it:

https://twitter.com/columeastwood/status/1355220946903306240

https://twitter.com/StephenFarryMP/status/1355208341820231680

https://twitter.com/naomi_long/status/1355209174062411776

https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1355232639804993539


Such an unnecessary own goal that will prove a gift to the likes of the DUP.

The northern Ireland issue is unsolvable and the stupidity of partition is the problem.

This was always going to happen one way or another. If it wasn't the EU it was going to be the British.

sondagefaux

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

This is a huge gaffe on the part of the EU that risks souring relations further in NI. Even pro-EU parties are speaking out about it:

https://twitter.com/columeastwood/status/1355220946903306240

https://twitter.com/StephenFarryMP/status/1355208341820231680

https://twitter.com/naomi_long/status/1355209174062411776

https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1355232639804993539


Such an unnecessary own goal that will prove a gift to the likes of the DUP.

I wouldn't worry about the DUP.

If any party can turn gold into shíte...

Kermit.de.frog

sondagefaux wrote: »

It contradicts the earlier exemption for Northern Ireland.

I suspect it'll be rescinded pretty quickly.

They've set a precedent now. This is one of the most illogical moves I have ever seen. The EU must have known this would destabilise the situation.

I'm dumbstruck as to how incompetent and ignorant this move is. Was the Irish government given ANY prior notice?

FrancieBrady

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They've set a precedent now. This is one of the most illogical moves I have ever seen. The EU must have known this would destabilise the situation.

I'm dumbstruck as to how incompetent and ignorant this move is. Was the Irish government given ANY prior notice?

What is the precedent?

sondagefaux

RobMc59 wrote: »

No,its true I worked for a French pharmaceutical company that was manufacturing an intermediate for astra zeneca.

You're claiming that the FDA blocked a competitor's product at the behest of Pfizer, and are now doing so for a vaccine that AstraZeneca won't be selling at commercial prices?

Fairly serious claims require fairly serious evidence.

I'm guessing AZ and this French company took the FDA and Pfizer to court over the alleged collusion to block that product...

Or perhaps Astra Zeneca has been prosecuted and fined $520 million by the US authorities for violation of federal drug-marketing laws and has been bad mouthing the FDA?

Pharmaceutical Giant AstraZeneca to Pay $520 Million for Off-label Drug Marketing

AstraZeneca LP and AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals LP will pay $520 million to resolve allegations that AstraZeneca illegally marketed the anti-psychotic drug Seroquel for uses not approved as safe and effective by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Departments of Justice and Health and Human Services’ Health Care Fraud Enforcement Action Team (HEAT) announced today. Such unapproved uses are also known as "off-label" uses because they are not included in the drug’s FDA approved product label.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/pharmaceutical-giant-astrazeneca-pay-520-million-label-drug-marketing

Also relevant to this issue:

http://pharmabiz.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?aid=68164&sid=2

Kermit.de.frog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What is the precedent?

Right now, as we type, unionists are knocking down the door of Johnson to invoke the same article in the protocol.

The EU by setting such a low bar just gave them all the ammunition they need.

Incredible incompetence that has left us vulnerable. If the UK decides to act on import difficulties in the north there is very little we can say now.

Larbre34

Its not a great move by the Commission, slightly churlish.

Meehole could come up smelling of roses if he could broker a deal here. Vaccines entering Ireland to remain on the island of Ireland only, ie give NI as much as they'll be able to use, but not so much that they might send it on to GB.

sondagefaux

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They've set a precedent now. This is one of the most illogical moves I have ever seen. The EU must have known this would destabilise the situation.

I'm dumbstruck as to how incompetent and ignorant this move is. Was the Irish government given ANY prior notice?

If anything the precedent set is that the Commission shouldn't invoke Article 16 of the Protocol without asking the Irish government first, even if it can formally do so in what it deems to be an emergency.

The most likely outcome of this will be the establishment of a procedure to follow, a protocol if you like, before the Commission uses Article 16 on an emergency basis.

In normal circumstances, neither party can invoke Article 16 without notifying the other party and consulting.

Someone in the Commission screwed this up, VDL better check it wasn't her!

Kermit.de.frog

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its not a great move by the Commission, slightly churlish.

.

It amounts to throwing us under the bus. Incredibly reckless and if I was the Taoiseach I'd be furious at the storm this is going to create in the north.

Unionists will be demanding same from UK govt in relation to the protocol.

Larbre34

Presumably the official responsible for inking the move would be Valdis Drombavkis, executive vice president of the Commission and Commissioner for Trade.

CelticRambler

Indestructable wrote: »

EU invoke article 16 in relation to the vaccine. What are the consequences of this? Arlene ain't happy, but that's nothing new.

Edit: She's even said the EU has placed a hard border on the island.

And so the stage is set for the DUP to make a choice: sign up to an all-island-of-Ireland public health strategy, as applies to NI cows and sheep; or pay the price for blind loyalty to Westminster.

Well played, Brussels!

As someone with a direct, first-hand involvement in disease control, that is exactly the kind of move I would have advised; and is typical of decisions that the Brexit fence-sitters are going to have to make from here on. As previously outlined, this is the new reality for the UK: play nice and with a modicum of common sense, or be treated like the other rogue states.

squeekyduck

Poor move by the EU. It has used Ireland with consultation.

If I was Irish in NI, I would be fuming that the EU is treating European passport holders like this. This has done damage, no matter how legally correct it is. Not a good day

WhiteMan32

The best thing Arlene could do is to stand (socially distanced) alongside Michelle, Colm & Naomi and remind Ursula that NI voted to Remain in the EU !

tubercolossus

Does anyone else get the feeling that the woodwork is suddenly bereft of former inhabitants?

sondagefaux

Well that was quick!

The link on the Commission website to the EU Regulation implemeting the use of Artucle 16 of the Protocol no longer works.

Easy come, Von Der Leyen go?

CelticRambler

squeekyduck wrote: »

If I was Irish in NI, I would be fuming that the EU is treating European passport holders like this. This has done damage, no matter how legally correct it is. Not a good day

If you were Irish in GB, you could fume just as much. The simple fact of having an "EU" passport doesn't make you immune from the stupidity of Brexit, and this one event is a reminder to all who live in NI (and elsewhere) that NI does not benefit from the best of both worlds. It is still part of the UK, and there will be situations when it is treated as part of the UK ... unless the people there decide to review and revise that status.

Edit: it's also a convenient reminder to all who still believe that the EU is a slow-moving behemoth that it can and does act with remarkable speed when the need arises. A lesson that should not be forgotten by anyone who thinks that they can exploit apparent weaknesses in the new trading relationship with little risk to themselves or others.

sondagefaux

WhiteMan32 wrote: »

The best thing Arlene could do is to stand (socially distanced) alongside Michelle, Colm & Naomi and remind Ursula that NI voted to Remain in the EU !

I don't think Arlene or anyone in the DUP can credibly remind anyone that NI voted to Remain.

She would be very swiftly reminded that the fundamental reason for the NI Protocol is because of the dual mandate given to the GFA and the EU by the majority of people in Northern Ireland, both times opposed by the DUP.