wife beaters, what makes them tick?

Day Lewin · 14-01-2021 1:19pm

Not sure this should be in After Hours, because it's a serious subject.

I mean: men have always violently dominated their female partners - it was so in the Stone Age, no doubt.
Very, very common still in many societies. In parts of Asia, Africa, India, almost routinely expected.

And no, they probably don't all have tiny willies or mental illness. They just haven't been taught, or compelled, to not do it.

They are a much more aggressive sex, and like to get their own way.

An equally interesting question would be, why don't most modern, civilised humans do it? What cultural norms have been installed to prevent this nasty crime?
As this thread will have shown, it is a particularly loathed and reviled crime against the weaker sex (I think I may use that phrase in this context - for heaven's sake, don't pounce on it) so how has this been achieved?

So much to ponder, sobering stuff.

volchitsa · 14-01-2021 1:21pm

completedit wrote: »

It probably happens more than we care to admit.
Women don't really like nice men but even nice men can be abusive. I've had one or two relationships and while I've never been violent or close to it, I can see how situations can deteriorate before you even know it. Sometimes my feeling of ineptness would spiral out of control and I'd just want to fly off the handle. With me, it manifested itself in defensiveness. I think men who are more prone to being aggressive but have the same insecurities would react by being physically violent.

I don't know what this means.

Also, I think "nice" men who are abusive can't have been all that nice really - and maybe that's what you're thinking of when you say women don't like nice men. Maybe they don't like men who seem nice but where they feel that there's something less pleasant underneath it? (Just guessing here)

completedit · 14-01-2021 1:23pm

Day Lewin wrote: »

Not sure this should be in After Hours, because it's a serious subject.

I mean: men have always violently dominated their female partners - it was so in the Stone Age, no doubt.
Very, very common still in many societies. In parts of Asia, Africa, India, almost routinely expected.

And no, they probably don't all have tiny willies or mental illness. They just haven't been taught, or compelled, to not do it.

They are a much more aggressive sex, and like to get their own way.

An equally interesting question would be, why don't most modern, civilised humans do it? What cultural norms have been installed to prevent this nasty crime?
As this thread will have shown, it is a particularly loathed and reviled crime against the weaker sex (I think I may use that phrase in this context - for heaven's sake, don't pounce on it) so how has this been achieved?

So much to ponder, sobering stuff.

I think you underestimate humans inherent goodness. I might be wrong but weren't men and female relationships more equal before the Industrial revolution? I remember hearing that before. Perhaps as we became more closed off from the rest of society and lived in our own domains, women as the weaker of the sexes became to be more subjugated by their husbands. I assume a man who showed himself to be violent to his wife would have quickly been dealt with by others in the community when it was more transparent and out in the open.

Purgative · 14-01-2021 1:24pm

Mystery Egg wrote: »

It's been who want to control everything around them.

They can't control anything much, but they might be able to control their family by literally beating them into submission.

I'm a bit meh on that theory because:

-didn't President Tiny Hands beat his first wife?
- Multiple police attendances to the Johnson household for "domestic"

I'm not saying they're wife beaters but ...

Mad_maxx · 14-01-2021 1:30pm

completedit wrote: »

It probably happens more than we care to admit.
Women don't really like nice men but even nice men can be abusive. I've had one or two relationships and while I've never been violent or close to it, I can see how situations can deteriorate before you even know it. Sometimes my feeling of ineptness would spiral out of control and I'd just want to fly off the handle. With me, it manifested itself in defensiveness. I think men who are more prone to being aggressive but have the same insecurities would react by being physically violent.

its better to just allow women what they want in most cases

Samsonsmasher · 14-01-2021 1:31pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

This is something I have never been able to get my head around, why do men beat their wives/partners? im guessing it is because they are deeply unhappy with their lives but so are a lot of people and they would never do such a thing.

what is their problem? I will never get my head around it, beating someone smaller and weaker than you. pure scum obviously, it is something I couldnt forgive if I found out a friend of family member were guilty of it. The scary thing is it seems to be very common.

Insecurity.
Women always have options with other men.
A man who is insecure about his looks his nude body his penis his sexual performance his masculinity his courage his job his income etc will be in perpetual fear of losing his gf or wife.
He believes women expect men to be the leader in the relationship and to have his sh*t together - a better business house car appearance and to be dominant over other men.
He believes whatever he does will never be good enough and that the woman in his life enjoys humiliating him and putting him down when her "nagging" words are simply love and encouragement.
Full of jealousy he lashes out first verbally then physically in order to put her in her place and assert dominance and control.

Mad_maxx · 14-01-2021 1:32pm

Day Lewin wrote: »

Not sure this should be in After Hours, because it's a serious subject.

I mean: men have always violently dominated their female partners - it was so in the Stone Age, no doubt.
Very, very common still in many societies. In parts of Asia, Africa, India, almost routinely expected.

And no, they probably don't all have tiny willies or mental illness. They just haven't been taught, or compelled, to not do it.

They are a much more aggressive sex, and like to get their own way.

An equally interesting question would be, why don't most modern, civilised humans do it? What cultural norms have been installed to prevent this nasty crime?
As this thread will have shown, it is a particularly loathed and reviled crime against the weaker sex (I think I may use that phrase in this context - for heaven's sake, don't pounce on it) so how has this been achieved?

So much to ponder, sobering stuff.

much truth in that , traveller men beating their wives is as common as muck , unfortunately for the traveller women , feminists wont call this out as travellers are a sacred cow of progressives

its also common in muslim societies but again they are a progressive left sacred cow so better to focus on the " toxic masculinity " of european whites

14-01-2021 1:33pm

I studied this at great length in college.

It's not 'natural'.

Richard Hillman · 14-01-2021 1:41pm

My cousin goes out with an abuser. She's always had a penchant for those types. The chap was in prison for a machete assault and had his sentence extended for an assault in prison. I've no sympathy for her, she has always gone after those types and welcomed him back after his stretch in prison. Then completely denied it was his fault for nearly hacking somebodies arm off.

You can't help people like that. It's the victims of the emotional abuse that breaks my heart. They are emotionally coercive ****ers. And they love timid women or make their women become timid.

A lot of the victims blame themselves. They are emotionally broken down by the bullying. It's also not completely obvious from the outside either. At least the bruises can be seen, the emotional bruises can't.

pgj2015 · 14-01-2021 1:43pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

My cousin goes out with an abuser. She's always had a penchant for those types. The chap was in prison for a machete assault and had his sentence extended for an assault in prison. I've no sympathy for her, she has always gone after those types and welcomed him back after his stretch in prison. Then completely denied it was his fault for nearly hacking somebodies arm off.

You can't help people like that. It's the victims of the emotional abuse that breaks my heart. They are emotionally coercive ****ers. And they love timid women or make their women become timid.

A lot of the victims blame themselves. They are emotionally broken down by the bullying. It's also not completely obvious from the outside either. At least the bruises can be seen, the emotional bruises can't.

Many women do escape though, some lucky to escape with their lives from what I have seen.

14-01-2021 1:58pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

This is something I have never been able to get my head around, why do men beat their wives/partners? im guessing it is because they are deeply unhappy with their lives but so are a lot of people and they would never do such a thing.

I suspect the reason you can not get your head around it is because the expectation that there is a single thing to get your head around is the wrong place to start.

We humans love a simple answer to a simple question. "Why do people do X" is "because of Y". Job done - get understand it now and we can get on with our lives.

But unfortunately human behavior does not work that way. And a simple human action/activity that occurs in our society often can have any number of reasons and causes and backgrounds.

Why do people become alcoholics? Pick two random alcoholics and the answer will probably be as individual as they are? Why do people sexually abuse children? Because they are pedophiles? Well no - many pedophiles do not abuse any child. While - and this will fry your noodle - many people who abuse children sexually are not pedophiles and are not attracted sexually to children.

Another example - Joe Rogan last week had a guy specializing in Drug Problems on. Rogan asked him what he would say to a mother who had lost kids to drugs and now the remaining kids were on drugs. Expecting an answer like "Get them into Rehab and away from drugs" probably. The actual answer was surprising - to me at least. They guy said he would first and foremost check what drugs the kids were on and where they were getting them - and ensure going forward they were getting good quality stuff. Only then would he address their personal reasons for needing drugs and address those. He too does not believe in a one size fits all explanation for - or solution to - detrimental or harmful human behaviors.

With some but few exceptions - there are no simple one size fits all answers to explain any single human behavior. All of the answers offered on this thread are equally potentially right in any given situation. The only "wrong" answer is to assume any answer given on this thread is right in every case of perhaps even in the majority of cases. The moment anyone says "Yeah anyone doing that thing is <person type x>" or "has <personality issue y>" or "is doing so because <reason z>" they are simply just wrong. They are picking one potentially correct reason - and simply assuming it to be so for everyone.

Reports of physical domestic abuse have apparently - I have not looked into it to confirm - gone up during the Covid lockdowns. I guess this has two causes. One is that people who were abusing before are doing so more in lockdown and the victims simply can not take it any more and have finally reported. The second however is I guess some people are doing it now who never did it before. Which would mean some of the answers on this thread so far simply would not fit. Otherwise why did they not do it all this time and now suddenly are?

The simplest human behavior can have any number of potential explanations - which themselves can be simple or can be massively complex.

katiek102010 · 14-01-2021 2:18pm

I have worked in the area of DV for a long time.

There are just as many female abusers out there as male.

It is predominantly due to some underlying MH issue that causes the abuser to not recognise their limits when it comes to anger management or narcissistim. Many people also grow up in that environment and believe it to be normal.

I saw another poster mention that many people seem to be drawn to abusers. That is not the case.

What is the case is that many victims suffer from severe self esteem issues. This is easily recognised in body language, facial expressions etc. The correct way to phrase it would be.

May abusers deliberately seek out partners with low self esteem to control them and abuse them.

Church on Tuesday · 14-01-2021 2:43pm

A lot of people, men and women, simply can't keep their emotions in check and a lot of it has to do with how they were brought up in the home as children.

We all lose our temper from time to time, that is fairly normal and part of being human, however, if the individual does not realise that they have lost control of their emotions in that moment and try to address that, there may be a serious problem at hand.

grassylawn · 14-01-2021 2:51pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

A lot of people, men and women, simply can't keep their emotions in check and a lot of it has to do with how they were brought up in the home as children.

We all lose our temper from time to time, that is fairly normal and part of being human, however, if the individual does not realise that they have lost control of their emotions in that moment and try to address that, there may be a serious problem at hand.

You can be extremely angry with someone and not hit them though.
Walk off. Beat the sofa with a cushion. All the immediate catharsis, none of the injury - beyond a lumpy cushion maybe.
Being angry isn't an excuse to hit someone, especially someone who can't defend themselves.
I count women who hit their male partners in the same category, when the man is unwilling or unable to use force to defend themselves.

grassylawn · 14-01-2021 2:52pm

katiek102010 wrote: »

I have worked in the area of DV for a long time.

There are just as many female abusers out there as male.

It is predominantly due to some underlying MH issue that causes the abuser to not recognise their limits when it comes to anger management or narcissistim. Many people also grow up in that environment and believe it to be normal.

I saw another poster mention that many people seem to be drawn to abusers. That is not the case.

What is the case is that many victims suffer from severe self esteem issues. This is easily recognised in body language, facial expressions etc. The correct way to phrase it would be.

May abusers deliberately seek out partners with low self esteem to control them and abuse them.

People with low self esteem or bad backgrounds are much more likely to accept it or perceive it as normal though.

thecretinhop · 14-01-2021 2:53pm

Stella Artios

Feisar · 14-01-2021 2:55pm

Stan27 wrote: »

May it makes them feel more manly/ powerful.

Doubt it's that, I always preferred loosing a hard fight than winning an easy one. It's easy beat someone up, it's hard to get up when you should stay down.

Church on Tuesday · 14-01-2021 3:02pm

grassylawn wrote: »

You can be extremely angry with someone and not hit them though.
Walk off. Beat the sofa with a cushion. All the immediate catharsis, none of the injury - beyond a lumpy cushion maybe.
Being angry isn't an excuse to hit someone, especially someone who can't defend themselves.
I count women who hit their male partners in the same category, when the man is unwilling or unable to use force to defend themselves.

You shouldn't hit anyone full stop.

Buddy Bubs · 14-01-2021 9:12pm

Has anyone thrown out the mental health excuse yet, the poor divils have mental health issues God bless them. It's not their fault

FintanMcluskey · 14-01-2021 9:21pm

We are products of our environment.

If you witness it growing up you are more likely to repeat it.

That, low IQ and poor problem solving skills increase the risk of it happening.

soups05 · 14-01-2021 9:53pm

A woman is like a good garden, every now and then they need a good dig.

But really lads, don't knock it till ya try it. Tis great for geting your own way.

(it's after hours, you did not expect a serious answer did you?)

14-01-2021 9:54pm

BrianD3 wrote: »

There's an element of women being drawn to violent men with some marrying them. Before everyone piles on top of me and accuses me of being a neckbeard misogynist, I'm not victim blaming here just stating how things are.

Nerds who wouldn't hurt a fly - little or no success with women. No wife = no wife beating.
Gangsters, thugs, drug dealers, sociopaths, bullies, assholes - plenty of success with women.

So what makes wife beaters tick, in many cases it's just them being their usual asshole if not thug selves. Same individuals likely to engage in animal cruelty IME.

I've only one close personal experience of domestic abuse.

My aunt (mams sister) used to get the sh1t beaten out of her and the kids by her waste of organs dead beat husband. She'd stay with us a while, my dad would go up and threaten him, cops would be called, but she always went back to him.
Total alcoholic, spent every bit of money on booze. Kids often hungry, rarely heating, poor school attendance etc.. We could only support with food/clothes safe place to come when she needed. Man was always trying to get her to leave him.
But she always went back. He'd doo foxers for people for cash,and hide it from his family.

I asked dad why she stayed with him. Dad used to say, he was always a cnut, he never liked him. He was captain of the local GAA team growing up, the big man strutting about small country town. fighting and drinking from an early age (It was the 80s), and that she was delighted to have him as her boyfriend before they were married, she was the envy of her circle!

Some women are unfortunately attracted to the "bad boy", its too late sometimes when they realise what they've gotten into, that the bad boy is just a useless, selfish thug.

If someone lays a finger on my daughters, ill do time.

katiek102010 · 14-01-2021 9:55pm

grassylawn wrote: »

People with low self esteem or bad backgrounds are much more likely to accept it or perceive it as normal though.

Not necessarily. Many people with low self esteem do escape DV. The issue is if the low self esteem is not addressed, they may become trapped in a cycle of abuse by another abuser.

I know of one person who experienced years of psychological abuse. They never even realised it. It started so subtle. This person ended up being seriously bullied at work by a new manager. This reinforced to them that they were useless and incompetent just like their spouse said.

It wasn't until the bullying at work was unconvered that the abuse at home was copped.

The bully had targeted the victim due to basically recognition of an easy victim due to low self esteem

pgj2015 · 14-01-2021 10:05pm

katiek102010 wrote: »

Not necessarily. Many people with low self esteem do escape DV. The issue is if the low self esteem is not addressed, they may become trapped in a cycle of abuse by another abuser.

I know of one person who experienced years of psychological abuse. They never even realised it. It started so subtle. This person ended up being seriously bullied at work by a new manager. This reinforced to them that they were useless and incompetent just like their spouse said.

It wasn't until the bullying at work was unconvered that the abuse at home was copped.

The bully had targeted the victim due to basically recognition of an easy victim due to low self esteem

The likes of the bully at work should do time in prison for that in my opinion.

I was reading about a court case lately about some scumbag "team leader" in a warehouse in Dublin, he made several disgusting racist remarks at someone working under him. all that happened the team leader was he got a written warning, I mean come on.

pgj2015 · 14-01-2021 10:10pm

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

I've only one close personal experience of domestic abuse.

My aunt (mams sister) used to get the sh1t beaten out of her and the kids by her waste of organs dead beat husband. She'd stay with us a while, my dad would go up and threaten him, cops would be called, but she always went back to him.
Total alcoholic, spent every bit of money on booze. Kids often hungry, rarely heating, poor school attendance etc.. We could only support with food/clothes safe place to come when she needed. Man was always trying to get her to leave him.
But she always went back. He'd doo foxers for people for cash,and hide it from his family.

I asked dad why she stayed with him. Dad used to say, he was always a cnut, he never liked him. He was captain of the local GAA team growing up, the big man strutting about small country town. fighting and drinking from an early age (It was the 80s), and that she was delighted to have him as her boyfriend before they were married, she was the envy of her circle!

Some women are unfortunately attracted to the "bad boy", its too late sometimes when they realise what they've gotten into, that the bad boy is just a useless, selfish thug.

If someone lays a finger on my daughters, ill do time.

Did you ever see the episode of danny dyers deadliest men with mo teague?
mo teague is ex army, ex bouncer/hard man etc, a guy you wouldnt want to get on the wrong side of. his daughter was going out with a guy who was beating her, mo said the guy was minutes away from being shot dead, he had arranged it with some lads he knew. he reckoned the wife beater guy got a kick out of the fact mo was her father, makes you wonder do these guys have a brain at all.

The J Stands for Jay · 14-01-2021 10:12pm

Cerveza wrote: »

Tiny penis more than likely. The government should provide free penis pumps.

Their local TD calls round once a month to **** them off?

14-01-2021 10:48pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

Did you ever see the episode of danny dyers deadliest men with mo teague?
mo teague is ex army, ex bouncer/hard man etc, a guy you wouldnt want to get on the wrong side of. his daughter was going out with a guy who was beating her, mo said the guy was minutes away from being shot dead, he had arranged it with some lads he knew. he reckoned the wife beater guy got a kick out of the fact mo was her father, makes you wonder do these guys have a brain at all.

Thats the kind of guy you want looking out for you