Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

am_zarathustra

The direct entry courses are interesting, very variable standard depending on where you do it.

Rightly or wrongly, I'll always look at someone who has worked in private industry or another job favorably when hiring. I'm not sure it's good to go from school, to a teaching college, and then back to a school. Even a 4 year degree not geared towards teaching can be good.

I've known a couple of teachers who came through his way and are good but I find a lot lack depth of knowledge and real life skills that can be very useful in a SS. I'd imagine it's different at primary possibly.

wirelessdude01

am_zarathustra wrote: »

The direct entry courses are interesting, very variable standard depending on where you do it.

Rightly or wrongly, I'll always look at someone who has worked in private industry or another job favorably when hiring. I'm not sure it's good to go from school, to a teaching college, and then back to a school. Even a 4 year degree not geared towards teaching can be good.

I've known a couple of teachers who came through his way and are good but I find a lot lack depth of knowledge and real life skills that can be very useful in a SS. I'd imagine it's different at primary possibly.

Vast majority of my PGCE class in England had worked in various industries before going back to college. The few that went straight from undergrad into the PGCE struggled with the course work, struggled on teaching practice and also generally didn't last the pace in the classroom and drifted away from teaching or were content to just supply teach.

I also agree that teaching shouldn't be an option directly from the leaving cert. Should have to try something else and then specialise after the likes of 2nd year in college. I actually think it should be like that for all professions. No 17/18 year old can know for sure what they want to be. 17/18 yr old me would laugh at me now being a teacher.

wirelessdude01

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Vast majority of my PGCE class in England had worked in various industries before going back to college. The few that went straight from undergrad into the PGCE struggled with the course work, struggled on teaching practice and also generally didn't last the pace in the classroom and drifted away from teaching or were content to just supply teach.

I also agree that teaching shouldn't be an option directly from the leaving cert. Should have to try something else and then specialise after the likes of 2nd year in college. I actually think it should be like that for all professions. No 17/18 year old can know for sure what they want to be. 17/18 yr old me would laugh at me now being a teacher.

Just like your students so:P










I'll get my coat

downthemiddle

Deleted User wrote: »

Just like your students so:P










I'll get my coat

That might have worked if he wasn't a primary teacher.

Mrsmum

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Vast majority of my PGCE class in England had worked in various industries before going back to college. The few that went straight from undergrad into the PGCE struggled with the course work, struggled on teaching practice and also generally didn't last the pace in the classroom and drifted away from teaching or were content to just supply teach.

I also agree that teaching shouldn't be an option directly from the leaving cert. Should have to try something else and then specialise after the likes of 2nd year in college. I actually think it should be like that for all professions. No 17/18 year old can know for sure what they want to be. 17/18 yr old me would laugh at me now being a teacher.

Every teacher I know and that's quite a few went the direct route. I would have thought most teachers went that route.

Locotastic

Great to see there's been no massive spike in case numbers despite special education being open a month now and other classes back over a week.

Hopefully this trend continues with ECCE back this week too and the rest of primary back Monday.

It's encouraging so far to see the numbers still falling.

Icyseanfitz

Locotastic wrote: »

Great to see there's been no massive spike in case numbers despite special education being open a month now and other classes back over a week.

Hopefully this trend continues with ECCE back this week too and the rest of primary back Monday.

It's encouraging so far to see the numbers still falling.

....special education where back for one day before midterm break.

fantastic to see low numbers though, hopefully stays that way

am_zarathustra

Mrsmum wrote: »

Every teacher I know and that's quite a few went the direct route. I would have thought most teachers went that route.

I'm primary it's mostly direct, in secondary it's not. Most secondary teachers have a degree and then do the masters in education (dip, pdge whatever your having). Subject specialism to teach to a high standard at higher level in the leaving cert, I would argue, generally requires a 3/4 years degree. In business, when I was doing the dip, you needed a masters or professional exams to tip the points in your favour to get you into the Dip but this was during the recession, half my class had masters and phds.

lulublue22

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

....special education where back for one day before midterm break.

fantastic to see low numbers though, hopefully stays that way

Not all special Ed had a week at mid term. Some had 2 days which means they were back for 5 days.

lulublue22

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I'm primary it's mostly direct, in secondary it's not. Most secondary teachers have a degree and then do the masters in education (dip, pdge whatever your having). Subject specialism to teach to a high standard at higher level in the leaving cert, I would argue, generally requires a 3/4 years degree. In business, when I was doing the dip, you needed a masters or professional exams to tip the points in your favour to get you into the Dip but this was during the recession, half my class had masters and phds.

Primary is beginning to change too - most of my school teachers went back to train after working. Numbers with masters degrees is starting to increase too.

shtpEdthePlum

I wouldn't say that. There have been a great deal of outbreaks since schools reopened.


From Alerting Parents Facebook page.

wirelessdude01

lulublue22 wrote: »

Primary is beginning to change too - most of my school teachers went back to train after working. Numbers with masters degrees is starting to increase too.

Out of our staff, roughly a third went the post grad route.

lulublue22

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Out of our staff, roughly a third went the post grad route.

We are slightly unusual in that those who went directly into teaching are in a minority. A lot of our subs tend to be post grads as well.

wirelessdude01

lulublue22 wrote: »

We are slightly unusual in that those who went directly into teaching are in a minority. A lot of our subs tend to be post grads as well.

Most of our subs for the past 2/3 years have been a mix of retired teachers and mainly student teachers. A 'normal' sub isn't to be found. The retired teachers would be doing favours for the principal due to friendship. Max one week at a time.

SusanC10

It can be argued though that those cases listed as not "outbreaks". They are mostly single and some double cases.

Locotastic

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

I wouldn't say that. There have been a great deal of outbreaks since schools reopened.


From Alerting Parents Facebook page.

And yet our numbers overall continue to decline, our hospital and ICU numbers now the lowest they've been in months. There has been no spike, that's a fact.

Whatever will Alerting Parents Facebook page do with themselves after this is all finished?

poppers

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

I wouldn't say that. There have been a great deal of outbreaks since schools reopened.


From Alerting Parents Facebook page.

nearly all of those have 1 case only a few have 2 .
you cannot call one case an outbreak and if this is the extent of cases in schools proves schools are safe and kids are not passing it on to other kids.

Warbeastrior

poppers wrote:

nearly all of those have 1 case only a few have 2 . you cannot call one case an outbreak and if this is the extent of cases in schools proves schools are safe and kids are not passing it on to other kids.

Would ya stop with this "schools are safe" crap.
This narrative makes it sound like had they gone back in the middle of January when we were at thousands of cases, the magical school walls would have prevented the virus from entering the building.

It should be "schools can operate safely if community transmission is low".

Its like the crap that schools are "controlled environments".

I don't know what schools the people saying this have went to but nothing controlled about them.

poppers

Warbeastrior wrote: »

Would ya stop with this "schools are safe" crap.
This narrative makes it sound like had they gone back in the middle of January when we were at thousands of cases, the magical school walls would have prevented the virus from entering the building.

It should be "schools can operate safely if community transmission is low".

Its like the crap that schools are "controlled environments".

I don't know what schools the people saying this have went to but nothing controlled about them.

The narrative is school going children dont pass on the disease to each other hence school environment is safe.
My kids are in 2 different schools. Primary and secondary. There have been no mass outbreaks in either school both schools have in excess of 300 kids so by that metric i say they are safe. Primary school has had zero cases and secondary school had leds than 5 none linked to each other. 2 other schools in the area have had 1 case each. Since sept.
The above data has cases listed but no more than 1 or 2 again looks pretty safe.

Warbeastrior

poppers wrote:

The narrative is school going children dont pass on the disease to each other hence school environment is safe. My kids are in 2 different schools. Primary and secondary. There have been no mass outbreaks in either school both schools have in excess of 300 kids so by that metric i say they are safe. Primary school has had zero cases and secondary school had leds than 5 none linked to each other. 2 other schools in the area have had 1 case each. Since sept. The above data has cases listed but no more than 1 or 2 again looks pretty safe.

What about all the special schools that have had to close with outbreaks?

TonyMaloney

Locotastic wrote: »

And yet our numbers overall continue to decline, our hospital and ICU numbers now the lowest they've been in months. There has been no spike, that's a fact.

Whatever will Alerting Parents Facebook page do with themselves after this is all finished?

It would be very early to see an impact on cases from schools reopening

you're way ahead of yourself here

poppers

Warbeastrior wrote: »

What about all the special schools that have had to close with outbreaks?

How many have closed I dont actually know.
Im just going on my experience and the figures posted above.

Locotastic

poppers wrote: »

The narrative is school going children dont pass on the disease to each other hence school environment is safe.
My kids are in 2 different schools. Primary and secondary. There have been no mass outbreaks in either school both schools have in excess of 300 kids so by that metric i say they are safe. Primary school has had zero cases and secondary school had leds than 5 none linked to each other. 2 other schools in the area have had 1 case each. Since sept.
The above data has cases listed but no more than 1 or 2 again looks pretty safe.

We're the same here, no known cases in our primary of 300 pupils and one case in a pupil at our secondary with 700 pupils, none of the close contacts in that case contracted it either.

We've had relatively low community rates in our county so maybe that why. I'm happy to send mine back when they are allowed back.

Locotastic

poppers wrote: »

How many have closed I dont actually know.
Im just going on my experience and the figures posted above.

There have been closures but as far as I know the main reason is down to lack of staff who are isolating due to positive test or being in close contact with a case (this could be students or it could be contact with another staff member).

A handful of staff out under those circumstances would be enough to close some schools as we saw in the run up to Christmas some schools had to close due to this.

Some special education classes would be a bit different when it comes to close contact and where you have additional resource or SNA staff who could end up being close contacts too.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0310/1203047-coronavirus-ireland/

New figures show that despite a significant rise in outbreaks of Covid-19 last week, no outbreaks were reported in schools last week, following the return of around 32,000 pupils on 1 March.

This included more than 260,000 junior primary school children, as well as 60,000 Leaving Certificate students.

Figures from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre show that there were 431 outbreaks reported in the week to last Saturday, compared with 367 the previous week.

The biggest rise was in private house/family outbreaks, with 259 were reported, compared with 128 the previous week. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Icyseanfitz

TheTorment wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0310/1203047-coronavirus-ireland/

New figures show that despite a significant rise in outbreaks of Covid-19 last week, no outbreaks were reported in schools last week, following the return of around 32,000 pupils on 1 March.

This included more than 260,000 junior primary school children, as well as 60,000 Leaving Certificate students.

Figures from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre show that there were 431 outbreaks reported in the week to last Saturday, compared with 367 the previous week.

The biggest rise was in private house/family outbreaks, with 259 were reported, compared with 128 the previous week. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Hahahaha we are a country of idiots arnt we :pac:

Marty Bird

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

I wouldn't say that. There have been a great deal of outbreaks since schools reopened.


From Alerting Parents Facebook page.

50 odd cases out of 300k children returning to school, very small amount great to see.

JDD

TheTorment wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0310/1203047-coronavirus-ireland/

New figures show that despite a significant rise in outbreaks of Covid-19 last week, no outbreaks were reported in schools last week, following the return of around 32,000 pupils on 1 March.

This included more than 260,000 junior primary school children, as well as 60,000 Leaving Certificate students.

Figures from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre show that there were 431 outbreaks reported in the week to last Saturday, compared with 367 the previous week.

The biggest rise was in private house/family outbreaks, with 259 were reported, compared with 128 the previous week. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Here's the thing I can't understand. Say a kid in my daughter's class is asymptomatic and passes covid to my daughter. Call that Day 1. My daughter has it festering in her system, becomes infectious, and passes it to everyone else in the house. Call that Day 5. Another five days pass and I start to get symptoms. I'm hoping it's just a cold, but three days after symptoms start I register for a test. Day 8. HSE give me an appointment for the next day, and I get the results the day after. Day 10. Two days later the HSE get around to contacting me again for my close contacts, which are my family, and organise to have them tested the next day too. Day 13. My daughter comes back positive on Day 14.

Nobody will know whether she passed it to me or I passed it to her. So they could say that she got infected because of a household outbreak, since I am Patient No.1.

Two days later again the HSE contact the school and organise for my daughter's pod to be tested. Day 18 before they get their tests back. The girl that gave covid to my daughter likely had it for at least five days before she gave it to my daughter, so this is Day 23 for her. She may come back negative. Or, if she's not on my daughter's pod, she may not be tested at all. Or, if she gave it to her family, she's probably been tested already and is including in that household outbreak, rather than classifying it a school outbreak.

So forgive me if I take the "oh there's been no outbreaks in schools, but absolutely weirdly and not connected at all to the school return, there has been a doubling of outbreaks within the home" with a pinch of salt.

big syke

JDD wrote: »

Here's the thing I can't understand. Say a kid in my daughter's class is asymptomatic and passes covid to my daughter. Call that Day 1. My daughter has it festering in her system, becomes infectious, and passes it to everyone else in the house. Call that Day 5. Another five days pass and I start to get symptoms. I'm hoping it's just a cold, but three days after symptoms start I register for a test. Day 8. HSE give me an appointment for the next day, and I get the results the day after. Day 10. Two days later the HSE get around to contacting me again for my close contacts, which are my family, and organise to have them tested the next day too. Day 13. My daughter comes back positive on Day 14.

Nobody will know whether she passed it to me or I passed it to her. So they could say that she got infected because of a household outbreak, since I am Patient No.1.

Two days later again the HSE contact the school and organise for my daughter's pod to be tested. Day 18 before they get their tests back. The girl that gave covid to my daughter likely had it for at least five days before she gave it to my daughter, so this is Day 23 for her. She may come back negative. Or, if she's not on my daughter's pod, she may not be tested at all. Or, if she gave it to her family, she's probably been tested already and is including in that household outbreak, rather than classifying it a school outbreak.

So forgive me if I take the "oh there's been no outbreaks in schools, but absolutely weirdly and not connected at all to the school return, there has been a doubling of outbreaks within the home" with a pinch of salt.

I think it is all about the phrasing.

A school outbreak to me is an infected child passing it on to other kids in the school.

So in a 30 person class 1 child passing it on to say 10 kids.

This is a school outbreak.

I view it like the meat factories. ABP Bandon in January there were 66 cases in an outbrek in the factory. You dont see cases as high as this in school.

JDD

big syke wrote: »

I think it is all about the phrasing.

A school outbreak to me is an infected child passing it on to other kids in the school.

So in a 30 person class 1 child passing it on to say 10 kids.

This is a school outbreak.

I view it like the meat factories. ABP Bandon in January there were 66 cases in an outbrek in the factory. You dont see cases as high as this in school.

I take your point, but it's kind of apples and oranges. The meat factory workers mostly all live together, so they're outbreaks are bound to be higher in volume. Also, they're adults, so more likely to show symptoms and therefore it's easier to trace the infection back to Patient 1. When it's kids, who spend half their school year coughing and sneezing, and also have such a high rate of asymptomatic infection, it's much harder to trace it back to the school and it's likely many of the infections are being classified as household outbreaks.

I also believe an "outbreak" should be classified as say, more than five other people infected, but that's not the way the HSE works. If I live only with my boyfriend, and infect him and him only, that's a household outbreak.

It's another bugbear I have with the HSE stats. Everytime they say "oh 90% of infections are now from private home outbreaks, we need to make sure we're sticking to the rules" I want to scream. If I catch covid in the supermarket, I am GUARANTEED to infect my husband and children, and I am sticking to the rules!! That's a private home outbreak! 90% of infections occurring in private home does not mean people from different households are mixing in houses and spreading it to each other. It means one person got it from somewhere and infected their family, which is unavoidable. How did it get into the bloody home is what I want to know!

Aaaaand breathe.