Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

downthemiddle

deisedevil wrote: »

Fair play to you. Your one of the decent ones. I wish you were teaching my kids. It's such a shame that one teacher can be as dedicated as you are and another can fire up a video on see saw on how to make an animal out of a cardboard box and you both get same renumeration and the teacher who couldn't be bothered won't lose their job. Typical of the public sector in this country. You wouldn't get away with that crap in a private company. Anyways, I'm off to figure out what I actually need to be teaching my kids tomorrow evening when we get home from work.

Wait until you see what they want to do with the pipe cleaners and paper plates.

am_zarathustra

Locotastic wrote: »

Cases have already begun against the government decision not to reopen schools and probably more to come.

Good to see people are challenging them on it.

Each of the actions have been brought on behalf of five school-going children with special needs, who are suing through their parents.

In their separate actions, the applicants seek an order compelling the Minister and the State to provide the children with adequate and appropriate education, on the basis that the respondents have an obligation under the 1988 Education Act, and Article 42 of the Constitution.

They also seek a declaration that the respondents have failed in their duty to provide for an adequate education for the children.

They also seek injunctions aimed at compelling the state to provide the children with an appropriate and adequate education.

Good, proper order. Any of the parents of kids with additional needs I know know damn well it's not the teachers or Sna's that are causing this. The department had months to have a plan in place, go ask unions (who volunteered options and we're ignored) and to actually ask SETs, SNAs, parents and, heaven forbid, the actual students what they needed/wanted.

Most parents with kids with additional need could be suing the department every year based on the provision for their kids and I hope everyone remembers this shambles in the next elections and asks for a real commitment to these kids.

No one minds their tax payer money going to kids with additional needs.....no one, that's where people hope their money goes

Treppen

Locotastic wrote: »

Cases have already begun against the government decision not to reopen schools and probably more to come.

Good to see people are challenging them on it.

Each of the actions have been brought on behalf of five school-going children with special needs, who are suing through their parents.

In their separate actions, the applicants seek an order compelling the Minister and the State to provide the children with adequate and appropriate education, on the basis that the respondents have an obligation under the 1988 Education Act, and Article 42 of the Constitution.

They also seek a declaration that the respondents have failed in their duty to provide for an adequate education for the children.

They also seek injunctions aimed at compelling the state to provide the children with an appropriate and adequate education.

I think a pandemic will trump that. If they succeed then every child in Ireland could have a case.

wirelessdude01

Locotastic wrote: »

Cases have already begun against the government decision not to reopen schools and probably more to come.

Good to see people are challenging them on it.

Each of the actions have been brought on behalf of five school-going children with special needs, who are suing through their parents.

In their separate actions, the applicants seek an order compelling the Minister and the State to provide the children with adequate and appropriate education, on the basis that the respondents have an obligation under the 1988 Education Act, and Article 42 of the Constitution.

They also seek a declaration that the respondents have failed in their duty to provide for an adequate education for the children.

They also seek injunctions aimed at compelling the state to provide the children with an appropriate and adequate education.

The fact that the Epsen Act was never enacted/made law will play a part in how these cases play out. Parent still maintains primary responsibility for educating their child. All the state has to provide is a certain minimum standard of education. That certain hasn't been defined anywhere, in law or in policy. That term is repeated again in the education welfare act of 2000.

The lack of enactment of the Epsen Act is on this and previous governments. It lays out how the current wave of 'caring' is a total sham and is just playing politics with our most vulnerable.

mirrorwall14

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The fact that the Epsen Act was never enacted/made law will play a part in how these cases play out. Parent still maintains primary responsibility for educating their child. All the state has to provide is a certain minimum standard of education. That certain hasn't been defined anywhere, in law or in policy. That term is repeated again in the education welfare act of 2000.

The lack of enactment of the Epsen Act is on this and previous governments. It lays out how the current wave of 'caring' is a total sham and is just playing politics with our most vulnerable.

It is unreal that an Act that was taught when I was trained and referred to as ‘being implemented in full shortly’ is STILL not implemented. Total disgrace

scouserstation

Treppen wrote: »

I think a pandemic will trump that. If they succeed then every child in Ireland could have a case.

Every child is getting an education though, except for those who are unable to obtain an education from "remote learning"

c68zapdsm5i1ru

deisedevil wrote: »

Fair play to you. Your one of the decent ones. I wish you were teaching my kids. It's such a shame that one teacher can be as dedicated as you are and another can fire up a video on see saw on how to make an animal out of a cardboard box and you both get same renumeration and the teacher who couldn't be bothered won't lose their job. Typical of the public sector in this country. You wouldn't get away with that crap in a private company. Anyways, I'm off to figure out what I actually need to be teaching my kids tomorrow evening when we get home from work.

I have seen people get away with all kinds of crap in the private sector. And most teachers are doing their best under very difficult circumstances. I think most people who have had to home school in recent months now realise that teachers aren't just glorified babysitters with a cushy number and too short working days, even the posters that were constantly carping about them pre covid

Crocodile Booze

Locotastic wrote: »

Cases have already begun against the government decision not to reopen schools and probably more to come.

Good to see people are challenging them on it.

Each of the actions have been brought on behalf of five school-going children with special needs, who are suing through their parents.

In their separate actions, the applicants seek an order compelling the Minister and the State to provide the children with adequate and appropriate education, on the basis that the respondents have an obligation under the 1988 Education Act, and Article 42 of the Constitution.

They also seek a declaration that the respondents have failed in their duty to provide for an adequate education for the children.

They also seek injunctions aimed at compelling the state to provide the children with an appropriate and adequate education.

Tokenistic bullshiit.

Only people to gain will be the legal profession.

By the time anything enforceable is decided, schools will be fully open anyway.

Millem

The Ecce scheme in Montesorri is suspended until 5th March.
Can’t see anyone back now before then.

Locotastic

scouserstation wrote: »

Every child is getting an education though, except for those who are unable to obtain an education from "remote learning"

Which would be the case for the children who are now taking action against the government.

Locotastic

Crocodile Booze wrote: »

Tokenistic bullshiit.

Only people to gain will be the legal profession.

By the time anything enforceable is decided, schools will be fully open anyway.

Tokenism or not I for one am glad to see the government challenged on it.

They should be at least taken to task about their decisions, there will be plenty more accountability to come after the dust settles on all of this.

Locotastic

Millem wrote: »

The Ecce scheme in Montesorri is suspended until 5th March.
Can’t see anyone back now before then.

Interesting, where has this been reported?

wirelessdude01

Locotastic wrote: »

Interesting, where has this been reported?

All facilities were sent a letter today.

wirelessdude01

Locotastic wrote: »

Tokenism or not I for one am glad to see the government challenged on it.

They should be at least taken to task about their decisions, there will be plenty more accountability to come after the dust settles on all of this.

Maybe the government might 0ull the finger out and actually enact the Epsen Act.

combat14

scouserstation wrote: »

Every child is getting an education though, except for those who are unable to obtain an education from "remote learning"

and covid 14 day incidence rate is still double that of october restrictions/lockdown i.e. UNSAFE

billy_beckham

combat14 wrote: »

and covid 14 day incidence rate is still double that of october restrictions/lockdown i.e. UNSAFE

Falling quite quickly, return to real world teaching imminent hopefully.

khalessi

billy_beckham wrote: »

Falling quite quickly, return to real world teaching imminent hopefully.

Would be nice, but as they said themselves yesterday dont be fooled by the numbers as tracking and tracing of close contacts not being carried out, the HSE said it needed to see levels of positive cases dropping at a consistent level over a period of time before reintroducing automatic testing of close contacts.

Also Chief medical officer Dr Tony Holohan said: “The current 14-day incidence remains more than double the peak incidence experienced during previous Level 5 measures in October.

“Therefore, now is not the time to drop your guard and start to interact with people outside your household. The risk of transmission in the community remains very high.

Millem

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

All facilities were sent a letter today.

My son’s Montessori received an email yesterday. His teacher/owner contacted us with the information. It’s a standalone Montesorri so will remain closed. I presume crèches will remain open for essential workers.

TheValeyard

OmegaGene wrote: »

So what’s the general consensus for a return around these parts, parents in my kids class are saying after mid term but I’m leaning towards Easter

Between Midterm and early March I'd say. A staggered approach.

Millem

OmegaGene wrote: »

So what’s the general consensus for a return around these parts, parents in my kids class are saying after mid term but I’m leaning towards Easter

I think Easter now, best case scenario.
The earliest my son who is doing his ECCE will be back is 8th March. No way will mainstream school be back before then.

The 6th year students will resist going back because they do not want to sit a LC.

With regards to SEN I don’t know? I can’t see them going back any earlier unfortunately. It’s a very difficult situation for their families.

Locotastic

OmegaGene wrote: »

My thinking was now the numbers of cases are dropping they will start testing close contacts again which will no doubt lead to a spike in cases and push back the start dates.
Home schooling is perfectly fine but I think the younger kids miss the social interaction with their classmates which is my only worry

Unofficially there are plenty of close contacts being tested so there won't be a spike. We are testing 20k+ a day still.

Homeschooling is perfectly fine if:

A) The student engages
The teacher engages
C) Both have the required tools to do the work
D) Parents are able to work from home and have the time to support homeschooling (hundreds of thousands can't)
E) It is an exception and not the norm so for as short a time possible.

Stateofyou

OmegaGene wrote: »

My thinking was now the numbers of cases are dropping they will start testing close contacts again which will no doubt lead to a spike in cases and push back the start dates.
Home schooling is perfectly fine but I think the younger kids miss the social interaction with their classmates which is my only worry

I think the unions should be pushing for the definition of close contacts in the schools to be brought in line with every other workplace. The DES try and play it as if the safety measures they directed to be introduced in the schools are great but in reality most cannot properly social distance do to overcrowding in very small rooms. The illusion of "pods" and inconsistent, senseless standards around what close contacts are tested allowed them to push the "schools are safe" line and point to the data - when the lack of testing close contacts who were more than likely to be asymptomatic and the over-categorisation of the origin being put down to 'community,' created the false narrative from the data in the first place.

As a parent of primary kids, I want to see masks mandated and medical grade supplied to the teachers and staff, an enhanced testing and tracing system, more funding for cleaning and heating, and ideally installed purifiers/ventilation systems but I would settle for increased funding for heating so that windows can remain open.

The focus has been on SN students for a while now, and rightly so, but there's also a whole other portion of the school community who don't feel it's safe to send our kids in especially in light of the new strains. I feel we have dodged a bullet so far and I don't want to be faced with the stress of inferior safety measures and no choice of remote learning.

As an aside: my kids both had zoom calls with their class this week and both teachers asked if they miss school. There was a whole lot of "NOOOO's" and laughs and one of my kids was the only yes and got some stick for it. :pac: I am sure a lot do miss school though, but from what I heard most seem to be doing ok so far.

billy_beckham

OmegaGene wrote: »

My thinking was now the numbers of cases are dropping they will start testing close contacts again which will no doubt lead to a spike in cases and push back the start dates.
Home schooling is perfectly fine for myself but I think the younger kids miss the social interaction with their classmates which is my only worry

No sure how big the spike will be, AFAIK close contacts were still being told to isolate and if they developed symptoms they were being tested.

Another week on the current trajectory will see us back to where we were when schools were previously open.

Arguments for continued closure weakening rapidly... Especially when teachers are able to do cash jobs in private house's as reported yesterday evening..

khalessi

billy_beckham wrote: »

No sure how big the spike will be, AFAIK close contacts were still being told to isolate and if they developed symptoms they were being tested.

Another week on the current trajectory will see us back to where we were when schools were previously open.

Arguments for continued closure weakening rapidly... Especially when teachers are able to do cash jobs in private house's as reported yesterday evening..

I dont know how true that story is but if it is, it still doesn't negate the fact that schools at the moment due to community transmission are not safe and hence closed. Yes people were told to isolate but becuase of not testing close contacts we dont know how many symptomatic spreaders there are out there.

Stateofyou

billy_beckham wrote: »

Arguments for continued closure weakening rapidly... Especially when teachers are able to do cash jobs in private house's as reported yesterday evening..

Nice spin there. That isn't an argument for a safe and ready return, that's an argument for the fact that the DES/NF left desperate parents high and dry. The DES & Norma Foley have had 11 months now to plan and provide supports for parents - especially vulnerable and sn children but instead they did sweet F. A.
And if true it's a testament to the big-hearted and caring teachers who care about their pupils and families that they would risk themselves too. Is it not?

Murple

28 outbreaks reported in childcare centres in the last week, up 14 on the previous week.
Compare this to outbreaks in other work locations:
6 outbreaks in offices
11 in food production
10 in the commercial sector
2 in construction sites.

But schools are safe.

Locotastic

Stateofyou wrote: »

As a parent of primary kids, I want to see masks mandated.

Good luck with that, if it hasn't happened by now it isn't going to happen. I think the majority of primary parents would not support it either.

Locotastic

Murple wrote: »

28 outbreaks reported in childcare centres in the last week, up 14 on the previous week.
Compare this to outbreaks in other work locations:
6 outbreaks in offices
11 in food production
10 in the commercial sector
2 in construction sites.

But schools are safe.

I know of a few in creches and the virus was brought in by staff who didn't follow isolation guidelines.

Very unfair for everyone and nobody can feign ignorance of the guidelines at this stage.

Stateofyou

Locotastic wrote: »

Good luck with that, if it hasn't happened by now it isn't going to happen. I think the majority of primary parents would not support it either.

I know, good luck with any of it. Don't worry, I'm not optimistic of our leaders.

As for your last point, well I don't know. I'm chairperson of our pa and talk to a lot of parents who support all I've that I have outlined here. All of my siblings do as well as do many of my friends and my cousin that I spoke to. I don't think I'm being unrealistic or out of touch at all.

PowerToWait

Locotastic wrote: »

Good luck with that, if it hasn't happened by now it isn't going to happen. I think the majority of primary parents would not support it either.

Wtf do you know about it? There are changes to regs and recommendations happening all over Europe with regard to masks, all of them stricter, with the aim of reducing spread, kids included.

It doesn’t matter, even if you are correct (which I seriously doubt), that parents don’t support it. If they are deemed essential for the safe opening of schools there is no choice.

The real question is what your next username will be, and what are you going to put your time in at when this is all over?