Issues with father in law

LegacyUser

Hi,

I'm struggling alot recently with my father-in-law.

He's a difficult man to deal with. Liable to blow his temper at anything. Everyone has to walk on eggshells around him.

The problem is, I've gone along with this for too long, and his behaviour now is essentially death by a thousand cuts. I have three kids of my own and simply have no patience left for dealing with a fourth.

I have alot of anger towards him, that I've been bottling up and I can feel it having a huge negative effect on me. For a start, not sleeping, being irritable with my wife, constantly on edge.

I'm not sure how to handle him. My preference is to simply not have anything to do with him, but it's quite difficult, as he lives close to us.

He's extremely passive aggressive, although when challenged on anything (and I mean, anything), he becomes flat out aggressive and rage-filled. He's quite terrifying to be honest...feel a bit embarressed to admit that.

In my eyes, he's an abusive bully who's gotten away with treaing his family like dirt for years. I think my anger towards him has gotten more intsense over the years because I now have kids of my own, and I really don't want them exposed to that type of behaviour, or more specifically, I don't want them seeing that type of behaviour being rewarded.

Anyway, I just wanted to vent a bit and get this out of my head. I've spoken to my wife about it and she's very supportive, but we're both struggling with how best to deal with him.

Regards,
Marcet.

Princess Calla

The fact yourself and your wife are on the same page is a really good sign.

As useless as this piece of advice is I'll say it anyway, at this stage in life I can't see your father in law changing so it's up to you how you change your approach with them. (Easier said than done) .

I have a family member like this and I swear to God they do stuff on purpose to rile me (I've seen them in action with others and it's definitely a pattern) , I've pulled away. I treat them like a neighbour. I tell them nothing, keep conversation to the mundane just like a neighbour.

At the moment Covid is your friend, don't invite them to your house or visit theirs. If you do need to visit keep it to the garden ,short and sweet.

strandroad

What exposure do you have to him? Why do you need to see him?

Princess Callas advice is excellent

Id like to know a lot more about your wife's relationship with him before being able to give any advice, tho

Would she support a cooling of relations or would it just be you staying away? What about the kids?

If it comes to enforcing a bit of distance, and this needs to be addressed directly, who does it and how?

These are the practicalities.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the responses folks, really appreciate it.

So my wife and I are very much on the same page. She (and her siblings) had a tough time growing up with him in the house. His only son is in Australia and won't talk to him, and I doubt he'll come anywhere near home until his father has passed away.

That being said, it is still her father. She's keen we don't fall out, which I also don't want. I've had to bite my tongue so many times when all I wanted to do was explode at him. The problem is that it results suppressed anger, and manifests in other ways, such as no sleep or snapping at my wife over something trivial. I'm really uncomfortable with that, because I'm usually quite a laid back person. I'm actually angry at myself at how much it affects me (more anger!).

It doesn't help that I'm quite non-confrontational. I prefer to just get along with people rather than get into a row with them. Maybe if I was less conflict-averse, I might be able to handle it better, I'm not sure...

The advice is excellent and it's something I said to my wife yesterday. I'll say hello, but not much more. I don't know if I can spend much time in the same room as him though, it's that bad.

He has his own issues, obviously. He seems very insecure, especially around other men, which results in him having to always be right, always be the big man. That's one of the main reasons he gave his son such a hard time. It sounds nonsense, but someone like that is extremely draining.

He's also abusive to his wife, in lots of manipulative ways, and that behaviour turns my stomach to be honest. It's not really my business, to be fair, but she's just a lovely woman who doesn't deserve the abuse she gets.

I guess we don't really have to see him that much. I almost never visit their house, but he will often call unannounced to us. We live quite close, which doesn't really help.

Again, thanks for the help folks.

Regards,
Marcet

ManOfMystery

I've no idea what age your father in law is, but let's assume (if you're married with 3 kids etc) that he's in his 60s/70s.

In my experience, men of his ilk rarely change at all - and especially not when they've got to that stage of life. They are often too set in their ways and too conditioned to their own behaviour to make any vast, sweeping personality changes. And even if he did, it would no doubt have to start with some kind of counselling or psychological analysis into why he is so angry and what he can do to counter it.

Thus, you would need him to be (1) willing to admit his behaviour is out of line and he's in the wrong, and (2) willing to do something about it. Unfortunately, when you're dealing with someone whose main problem is irrational, bullying, passive-aggressive anger - do you really think they're open to the kind of self-reflection needed to change? I've come across many people like this (some within my own family) and rarely do they see any problem with their own behaviour.

I think you're totally correct in saying that your kids don't need to be exposed to this behaviour, or for it somehow to be normalised for them. But IMO the only way you're going guarantee that is limit your exposure to him. He may live nearby, but that doesn't mean you have to spend time with him or see him any more often than you want to. The fact that your wife is on the same page will make this step immeasurably easier.

LegacyUser

Great that your wife sees the issues, it would be so much more difficult and frustrating to deal with if your wife was so needy and enmeshed with her family that she pretends all is grand, her dad is really a wonderful man who contributes so much, and that its you that's the problem! Head wrecking dealing with that.

You probably have 2 choices to change the situation .

1. Do whatever it takes to reduce significantly the time spent by your family in his company - of course your will wife need to be on board and be prepared for a fair bit of drama and abuse when you are suddenly not as available to attend family events etc (but hey, sounds like your dealing with that now anyway)

2. Cut him off completely, which I would not recommend unless things are really so bad that he leaves you with no choice.

Zebrag

Marcet wrote: »

Hi,

I'm struggling alot recently with my father-in-law.

He's a difficult man to deal with. Liable to blow his temper at anything. Everyone has to walk on eggshells around him.

The problem is, I've gone along with this for too long, and his behaviour now is essentially death by a thousand cuts. I have three kids of my own and simply have no patience left for dealing with a fourth.

I have alot of anger towards him, that I've been bottling up and I can feel it having a huge negative effect on me. For a start, not sleeping, being irritable with my wife, constantly on edge.

I'm not sure how to handle him. My preference is to simply not have anything to do with him, but it's quite difficult, as he lives close to us.

He's extremely passive aggressive, although when challenged on anything (and I mean, anything), he becomes flat out aggressive and rage-filled. He's quite terrifying to be honest...feel a bit embarressed to admit that.

In my eyes, he's an abusive bully who's gotten away with treaing his family like dirt for years. I think my anger towards him has gotten more intsense over the years because I now have kids of my own, and I really don't want them exposed to that type of behaviour, or more specifically, I don't want them seeing that type of behaviour being rewarded.

Anyway, I just wanted to vent a bit and get this out of my head. I've spoken to my wife about it and she's very supportive, but we're both struggling with how best to deal with him.

Regards,
Marcet.

I could of written this myself.

Before me and my partner moved into an apartment, we stayed with his father for the best part of 3 years who was 100% like your FIL.

Every morning the man woke up complaining and giving out about SOMETHING. Hes been asleep for 9 hours so by the time he woke up, I would already be sitting down eating my breakfast and would be ruined by his passive aggressive outburst of something or other. It doesn't matter who said what or why it was said, he sound something to complain about. One day he kicked the neighbours dog for the sole purpose that it walked past the garden, not in the garden, pass it! Cue me dragging him by the neck and into the house. All before I even left to go to work. This among the many other of his actions and comments all before 7am. It goes has far as saying the man doesn't even appreciate what's and who is around him. He's always naming off dead people and blames other people for why his life was ****, as he says.

He's exactly like your FIL in the sense that out of 5 of his kids, 2 don't talk to him, 1 moved to America many years ago and won't even give her dad her number. The 2 remaining felt they have to be around him and even at that, often go home reeling from his behaviours. Whether it be towards them or even the simple fact that an advert on the telly was rubbish. He doesn't understand that he's mostly the problem.

Like your FIL he's 75 and the way he goes on you would think he was after being in both world wars and see it and all done it all so has a right to be annoyed when in reality, he's worked for total 5 years of his life and spent more time clamimg. But the government is at fault somehow....

Me personally, I stopped talking to him when me and my partner moved out. After 3 years of living with someone who taught the world owed him everything and bringing down even the lightest bit of happiness, I cut ties. My partner has a made a point to only visit him Saturday mornings for 2 hours and then that's it. His dad will ring the odd time about something or other and my partner will kindly tell his dad he's busy and will visit him Saturday and tries to leave the conversation as minimumal has he can.

I know it's easy said than done but some people can't be reasoned with and both men are way pass caring at their age

Snails pace

Hi Op.

This sound like my father. My sister and her husband haven't talked to him in over 3 years, cut ties totally. They live across the road from each other. It was tough on my mother at the start but my sister and husband are much happier since they cut ties. Before that nothing they did was good enough. For your own mental health and sanity you will have to cut ties fully. You will never change that man. I work with my father every day but keep it strictly business and that's it.

HildaOgdenx

'.... but he will often call unannounced to us. We live quite close, which doesn't really help.'

Current restrictions mean that he should not visit you, so that's something anyway.

It's a tough situation, someone like that is very difficult to deal with so don't be hard on yourself, or apologetic for the fact that you haven't handled things differently.

Put yourselves first, in your own thinking, from now on. You are all probably used to having to tiptoe around him, and what he might say or do in any given situation. That will take time, to break that habit.

Distance yourselves, as best you can. As I said at the outset, he should not be visiting you now anyway.

'The problem is that it results suppressed anger, and manifests in other ways, such as no sleep or snapping at my wife over something trivial. I'm really uncomfortable with that, because I'm usually quite a laid back person. I'm actually angry at myself at how much it affects me (more anger!).

It doesn't help that I'm quite non-confrontational. I prefer to just get along with people rather than get into a row with them. Maybe if I was less conflict-averse, I might be able to handle it better, I'm not sure...'

You might find it helpful to have a chat with a counsellor, for your own sake, as you mentioned a lot of anger, (understandable) , which is causing issues for you and your wife. Don't beat yourself up about not handing things differently.

He won't change, I think that's a given. But what you can work on is changing how you react to him. Take away the power, as such, that he currently has, to upset you. And that's where I think counselling could also be useful to you.

All the best.

Sonic the Shaghog

To be honest if he's effecting you that much you'll be the one with a breakdown for a finish.

You've already started to turn into him snapping at your wife, that's not a dig I don't blame you it's a joke having to put up with him.

It's not just your ordinary putting up with it. It's not like you listen to him to him drone on moaning about his neighbour while you nod away, he's explosive with his anger and really getting to you.

You say your wife understands, well I'd be having serious words with her that I'd be telling him not to darken this door unless he comes I civil and if she wants to she's more than welcome to call over to him herself. Tell her his BS is starting to effect you and it's either he stays out of your way or she'll have to accept his calling round will lead to a fcuked up marriage of her own given how he's effecting you.

Hannibal_Smith

OP, people like your father in law there is no reasoning with. They're right, everyone else is wrong and woe be tide if you challenge them. Before you know it you've been dragged into a hell hole of an argument that's no longer even about what started it off in the first place. It's like with a child, you can spot the tantrum before it starts and getting involved is rewarding the bad behaviour with attention.

It's tricky trying to think of how you deal with him without seeing him in action. As Hilda said, he shouldn't be visiting at the moment, so you could start there. But if he's rude or gruff, you could quietly pull him up on it. When he flies off into a rage, don't engage. But at the end calmly say, all I asked was that you don't speak to me like that which is not unreasonable. Do not react in any way to it after that, all you'll be doing is rewarding a tantrum because you had the nerve to ask him to speak to you/your wife properly.

LegacyUser

"You've already started to turn into him snapping at your wife, that's not a dig I don't blame you it's a joke having to put up with him."

This has been in my mind lately, alot. It happened so gradually that I didn't really notice but then my wife pulled me on it (correctly) and I realised I was being an ass. And it took me a while to link the two, to be honest.

In fact, this is one of the main reasons I want to sort out this issue. If it was just affecting me, then I could probably live with it (and I have, for a long time). But now that it's manifesting itself as anger towards my wife, usually at something trivial, well, that's the point where something has to change.

The lockdown will definitely help, although I don't think he'll be as willing to follow the rules as the first time around. I know it sounds ridiculous, but even asking him to leave because of the restrictions fills me with anxiety. It's very difficult to pull him up on anything, as another posted suggested.

I've actually slept a bit better the past day or two. I think it's because I've made this decision to cut ties as much as possible. Thanks everyone for the input, I really appreciate it. It's good to hear other people in similar situations (well, not good for them, but nice to hear others have similar experience).

Regards,
Marcet

HildaOgdenx

Glad to hear you have started sleeping a bit better, OP.
It can help to get things off your mind sometimes, to an anonymous forum, and to to hear from others too.

There's nothing easy about dealing with the likes of him. What I said in my earlier post about putting yourselves first, for example, thinking 'he will not be as willing to follow the rules this time'...turn that around in your head. Say to yourself 'this is what we are doing to keep ourselves safe and to follow restrictions' i.e consider yourselves first, rather than thinking about him. It's a pattern of thinking that has developed naturally, over the years, and will take time to change. But it's a start.

And if the means locking the door, and leaving him outside, well so be it. And if he has a key (I hope not) well the hardware shops are still open...!

Again, easier said than done, I know, but start now as you mean to go on.
It's good that your wife is on the same page also.

ILoveYourVibes

Im sorry op.

Don't engage with the conflict. Set your boundaries ..but maintain a Sense of Humor.

Be emotionally detached ...he is not your dad or really a part of your family. So keep those boundaries.

Put your kids and wife first. Priorities.

LegacyUser

Hey all,

So I spoke to my mother-in-law yesterday about the situation. She's a lovely woman, and I didn't really want her wondering why I was being less available, so I thought it only fair to discuss it with her.

She understood completely and said do whatever you need to do, which was nice to hear.

I think since making this decision, there's been a weight of my mind. I really like everyone's advice about putting my family first. I've noticed just small things, like both me and my wife laughing off stuff with the kids instead of getting stressed immediately. No doubt my behaviour was effecting my wife in turn, and then even if we don't mean to, it gets picked up by the kids, maybe by the atmosphere or something.

Anyway, I'm definitely feeling better, I might check in again the next time I have to deal with him, because there's no doubt I'll have to at some stage. But at least I've put down the boundaries and have good support all round.

Thanks again everyone!

strandroad

Great work OP. Just to add that I've suffered my share of fools in life and would consider myself quite resilient but if one was showing up *at my own house unannounced* it would rile me up in no time. I hope that you can achieve lasting improvement by removing this factor alone!

Princess Calla

Marcet wrote: »

<Snip> Unnecessary quoting of entire text.

Why did you feel the need to talk to your mother in law?

You had the perfect excuse in Covid to pull back on social interaction with no one questioning you.

I can't help but think you've unnecessarily escalated the situation.

LegacyUser

Princess Calla wrote: »

<Snip> No need to quote the entire preceeding post.

I don't think so, to be honest. I'm pretty sure it will stay between the two of us. I just would feel bad if I started showing the cold shoulder to her, I just wanted to make sure it was nothing to do with her.

She knows better than anyone what he's like. We've often been the ear for her when she needs to rant about her situation, which neither me nor my wife would ever dream of saying back to my FIL.

I think we have quite a good relationship with her, and I'd like to make sure we don't ruin that. And I'm pretty confident that it won't go back to my FIL.

Thanks,
Marcet

Princess Calla

Marcet wrote: »

<Snip> No need to quote the entire preceeding post.

Yeah but you've just told a grandmother that she won't be seeing her grandchildren because of the actions of her husband, a man who she's married to for decades and had her children with (For the next month they shouldn't have been seeing them anyway, so having that conversation at the moment was unnecessary)

I'm not sure what your endgame is. From outside looking in, it looks like you are trying to drive a wedge between your father and mother inlaw. What do you expect her to do with this information? Do you hope she builds more resentment towards him in and eventually leave him, the ultimate punishment for his bad behaviour?

These people are your in-laws,you don't really need to spend a whole lot of time with them, you can very easily make yourself scarce when they are in the house. You don't have to stay in their company for the whole of their visit.

I'll be honest, if I heard someone say they weren't seeing their grandchildren because their son/daughter in law didn't like their spouse I wouldn't have a very high opinion of the son/daughter in law I would think them quite controlling.

I fully understand that the man was driving you up the wall, but if you really felt that it was a conversation that needed to be had, it should have come from your wife....it's her family. I'd be livid if one of my brothers or sisters in law said similar to my mum, and my parents are extremely hard work.

Sunrise_Sunset

Sounds a lot like my own Dad. I have pretty much cut ties with him. I couldn't continue living my life on edge. My Mam is understanding for the most part. It isn't a perfect situation and it does drain some of my mental strength and energy but not nearly as much as it did when we were still talking.

LegacyUser

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear. I only told my mother in law that I would be just keeping a little bit of distance between me and him. Nothing at all about her not seeing her grandchildren.

I honestly don't think she took it any other way than she understood where I was coming from, and that I didn't mean any offence.

Regards,
Marcet.

Sunrise_Sunset

Princess Calla wrote: »

Yeah but you've just told a grandmother that she won't be seeing her grandchildren because of the actions of her husband, a man who she's married to for decades and had her children with (For the next month they shouldn't have been seeing them anyway, so having that conversation at the moment was unnecessary)

Did I miss something? He didn't say anything about her not seeing her grandchildren. And he also didn't say that his wife is going to pull back, only him.

Sonic the Shaghog

I don't know where you're getting this this PC he didn't say anything about keeping the MIL at a distance.

Frankly even if she was two faced and tells the husband who gives a blue bollox given you are going to keeping him at arms length he'll know either way you've no time for him

Gruffalux

In addition to the other actions you are taking maybe get a punch bag to work out with, to channel anger and also bring some of your nerves into a physical arena. You sound like someone who thinks a lot, which is good and positive, but being cerebral can lead to tensions in the body. A punch bag or a running program or some physical outlet might help with the top heavy energy.
And if possible see what can be done here with a sense of humour. A kind of funny exaggerated yet subtle narrative thread you and the wife have between yourselves about a bollox who will never change.
Also be truthful with the kids as they grow older. They may have a different dynamic with him but they also do not have to like anyone just because they are related.

Princess Calla

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Did I miss something? He didn't say anything about her not seeing her grandchildren. And he also didn't say that his wife is going to pull back, only him.

Sorry your right, he just said he explained to his mother in law why he was being less available.

I read it as "they" as in the full family unit, where as he's talking just about himself. (I think)

I still find it weird he needed to do that especially right now when everyone is being asked to "make themselves less available" , it's just bringing unnecessary drama.

Jequ0n

Princess Calla wrote: »

Sorry your right, he just said he explained to his mother in law why he was being less available.

I read it as "they" as in the full family unit, where as he's talking just about himself. (I think)

I still find it weird he needed to do that especially right now when everyone is being asked to "make themselves less available" , it's just bringing unnecessary drama.

That would work for a person with self-reflection abilities but not necessarily for someone who is used to getting their way no matter what. It actually makes a lot of sense to agree an approach with the sensible people involved.

LegacyUser

So, like I said, I only spoke to my MIL to make sure she knew it had nothing to do with her. I have a lot of time for her, like I've said she's a lovely woman. You're right, PC, maybe I didn't need to do it right now, but it would gnaw at me inside if I didn't just clarify it with her.

As someone mentioned, this is a bit like the sensible people handling the one difficult person. It's not nice to have to do it, but it's not the first time we've had to do it. Drama is certainly the last thing I'm looking for. Simple, quiet, uneventful, no rows - that's my end goal.

Again, thanks all for the comments, really appreciate it.

Regards,
Marcet.

spaceHopper

If I was you I'd visit their house more than allow them to visit you, that is once covid is over. If he kick off you can say, look I really don't want to fight with anybody so I thinks it's time we went home". If he's in your house do the same, camly send them home. Also arrange to see them out of the house in public where he will behave.

While he's an adult and unlikely to change if he stops getting a response to his actions he will likely dial it back. I've seen it before with a man child in a club he knew who he could get a rise out of and if you left it a hour to respond to something he did or wanted and gave a simple short reply then stretched the time out the stirring stopped.

Pistachio19

For now make sure he can't walk into your house unannounced by keeping the doors locked. If there's a knock at the door answer it wearing a mask. If it's him tell him you are firmly sticking to the rules now given the shocking levels of covid cases, therefore you are not allowing anyone in your house. While he can try to argue, he really has no argument. And definitely keep your distance going forward. Even when it gets to a point where you are allowed visitors, if your wife is happy to entertain him then let her. You don't have to stay in the room/house while he's visiting. And you don't ever have to visit his house. Knowing that might just be enough to stop stressing over it.

Stateofyou

Instead of being in a situation where you have to ask him to leave, your wife should proactively tell him that you're setting a good example for the children and following the rules by not having anyone in the house. She could explain that you's have had to turn down their/your own friends coming over, and the reasons why, and that you all want to do your bit of responsibility. And maybe, one of you is beginning to feel a bit "off" too.

Personally, my approach would be more confrontational. If it were me I would tell him his behaviour is unacceptable and until he takes steps to be more respectful he's not welcome over. It gives him an opportunity to make a choice in some self growth. He most likely won't at this stage, but I do believe in telling people how they've impacted you and sticking up for yourself/your family. But that's just me.

By the way, have you told your wife what's up with your anger issue and where it's coming from? If not, I think you should and try and stay on the same page when putting more firm boundaries in place with her Da.

freshpopcorn

OP, you’ve done a good job with how you handled this and it’s the best you can do when your dealing with people like him and want to stay in contact with others.

Digiteer

No need to engage with him, if he wants a relationship with his grandchildren, then needs to address his behaviour.!!

circadian

I'd highly recommend mindfulness/meditating. At the start of lockdown last year everything just tipped over for me, I became more irritable and short tempered, I've always been good at managing myself from flying off the hook but I started to lose it with everyone, father on law included.

There's plenty of YouTube resources and apps. Helped me loads.

LegacyUser

People that are this difficult usually have some combination of psychiatric issues/personality disorders that have been left untreated for decades or more. Dont waste your energy. Just stay away and keep your family away as much as possible. Lifes too short and you wont get anywhere dealing with him.

Hannibal_Smith

Mod Note

As the OP seems to have come to a resolution that they're happy with, I'll close this thread now. If you want it reopened Marcet, just let one of the Mod Team know by PM.

Thanks everyone for you help and advice.

HS