2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

cnocbui

Hubertj wrote: »

How much would it cost to redecorate that place so a normal person would live there? Awful looking!

I like the dark purple, as I have a sitting room done in the same shade. The pink and cerise are the main, truly offensive colours. A lot of the eyesore elements would be departing with the owners. I'd have no problem spending a few weekends with a roller and brush. A lot of the cabinetry is way too fussy for my tastes, but if your pockets are deep enough, that too could be fixed.

Hubertj

cnocbui wrote: »

I like the dark purple, as I have a sitting room done in the same shade. The pink and cerise are the main, truly offensive colours. A lot of the eyesore elements would be departing with the owners. I'd have no problem spending a few weekends with a roller and brush. A lot of the cabinetry is way too fussy for my tastes, but if your pockets are deep enough, that too could be fixed.

I’m thinking more about the kitchen, the white padding around the place, not a fan of the tile/marble flooring either - reminds me of a hotel lobby.

mcsean2163

Does anyone know how to find when a property is first listed?

PropQueries

cnocbui wrote: »

Moving money abroad is difficult if you don't already have a foreign bank account to move it to - very easy if you have.

A very good option if you don't have a foreign account is to use your savings to buy bitcoin, then you will be immune from being scalped.

There is something to be said for Robert Heinlein's notion that those dependent on a state for their income, shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Would that include the vast majority of farmers?

Though it would be interesting to see how quickly and by how much property prices would fall if HAP, long-term lease agreements, state purchases of new build homes, second hand homes etc. was stopped in the morning

Villa05

Hubertj wrote:

You’d want to be some eejit to equate that to kite flying. There is merit to what is suggested though . Not sure how placing additional income taxes on high earners (what ever you define them as) improves Ireland’s competitiveness.

Driving up house prices does nothing to improve competitiveness. That doesn't appear to be an issue for government

PropQueries

PropQueries wrote: »

Would that include the vast majority of farmers?

Though it would be interesting to see how quickly and by how much property prices would fall if HAP, long-term lease agreements, state purchases of new build homes, second hand homes etc. was stopped in the morning

When government will have chose pensions or HAP I am sure they will chose stop paying HAP for the start
Unfortunately this coming.The budget cutting is on its way .
The thing you are telling about not a fantasy this gonna be reality.

RichardAnd

cnocbui wrote: »

Moving money abroad is difficult if you don't already have a foreign bank account to move it to - very easy if you have.

A very good option if you don't have a foreign account is to use your savings to buy bitcoin, then you will be immune from being scalped.

There is something to be said for Robert Heinlein's notion that those dependent on a state for their income, shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Hmm, but with bitcoin, one could potentially be wiped out if the price were ever to drop.

However, it's still better than keeping cash, I suppose.

PropQueries

PropQueries wrote: »

Would that include the vast majority of farmers?

Though it would be interesting to see how quickly and by how much property prices would fall if HAP, long-term lease agreements, state purchases of new build homes, second hand homes etc. was stopped in the morning

This will not happen straight away this will happen gradually
The government will simply cut HAP to those who been unemployed more than 12 months
After to those who been unemployed more than 6
And believe me there will be millions who will support this government because government cut money to those WHO DOES NOT WANT WORK ! No mather this will be peanuts,sandwiches or soup !
Did you ever heard about commercial company Seatek which are getting paid by government for employing people who are long term unemployed ?
Its work very simple Seatek offer job if person on doll does not take job for peanuts his social welfare will be cut or canceled for 9 weeks
Its worked so well that country came to full employment in 2019
This will be repeated its gona be massacre.

cnocbui

RichardAnd wrote: »

Hmm, but with bitcoin, one could potentially be wiped out if the price were ever to drop.

However, it's still better than keeping cash, I suppose.

I once made a bitcoin or cash decision. Now I have a CGT problem, but don't have to worry about an Irish government raiding my savings.

Reins

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Does anyone know how to find when a property is first listed?

I believe if you put the address in to a twitter search the bots capture it.

RichardAnd

cnocbui wrote: »

I once made a bitcoin or cash decision. Now I have a CGT problem, but don't have to worry about an Irish government raiding my savings.

What about gold? To me, it seems better than bitcoin as at least it's something tangible.

For my own part, I'm only holding cash for the next few months as I aim to buy a home.

Balluba

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Does anyone know how to find when a property is first listed?

Go to Daft.ie and click on date entered.

Reins

Balluba wrote: »

Go to Daft.ie and click on date entered.

If Ad is refreshed original date is gone

cnocbui

RichardAnd wrote: »

What about gold? To me, it seems better than bitcoin as at least it's something tangible.

For my own part, I'm only holding cash for the next few months as I aim to buy a home.

I've done gold and it did nothing for me. Bitcoin I'm over 3,000 % better off so, I'm afraid I'm a bit biased there.

Most of the money in existence and that you will ever earn is a bunch of intangible ones and zeros on a banks disc array that you will never see or use in tangible form.

I remember when I used to get paid in cash at the end of a fortnight. Then it became intangible; doubly so in these days where you just tap a plastic card on the terminal.

liam7831

cnocbui wrote: »

I've done gold and it did nothing for me. Bitcoin I'm over 3,000 % better off so, I'm afraid I'm a bit biased there.

Most of the money in existence and that you will ever earn is a bunch of intangible ones and zeros on a banks disc array that you will never see or use in tangible form.

I remember when I used to get paid in cash at the end of a fortnight. Then it became intangible; doubly so in these days where you just tap a plastic card on the terminal.

I didn't know you had bitcoin ...

Cyrus

mcsean2163 wrote: »

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/76-silchester-park-glenageary-co-dublin/4494386

An extra €90k because it's 2021 not 2019 and the abomination number 144 overlooking back garden. I must be going mad because I'm considering it. Cul de sac, close to a green area and potential to add an extra room.

Interested to see what that goes for but it’s a good location if you decide to go for it.

MacronvFrugals

Reins wrote: »

If Ad is refreshed original date is gone

I always found the MyHome Price Changes bot on Twitter good, just search the address and you’ll see a tweet for all the times the property was advertised in the last 8 or 9 years including price changes.

RichardAnd

cnocbui wrote: »

I've done gold and it did nothing for me. Bitcoin I'm over 3,000 % better off so, I'm afraid I'm a bit biased there.

Most of the money in existence and that you will ever earn is a bunch of intangible ones and zeros on a banks disc array that you will never see or use in tangible form.

I remember when I used to get paid in cash at the end of a fortnight. Then it became intangible; doubly so in these days where you just tap a plastic card on the terminal.

3,000% I suppose one can't argue with returns like that!

I don't see gold as an invest as such. Rather, it's a preservation of wealth. If gold is kept for long enough, it will keep its value. There's also something tangible about owning a physical substance rather than shared or crypto. I suppose diversity is the key.

I'm with you on the cash, however. If I could go back to being in my early working days, I would not have kept much in cash at all.

JimmyVik

PropQueries wrote: »

Would that include the vast majority of farmers?

Though it would be interesting to see how quickly and by how much property prices would fall if HAP, long-term lease agreements, state purchases of new build homes, second hand homes etc. was stopped in the morning

I think they would plummet
FTBs and even trader uppers are not getting a look in at the minute with the state sponsored buy up.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

I think we entering to world of poverty
At the moment invest to apartment for rent is one of the best investments
The new young generation will never have money for own house and will have pay rent
Do you remember streets of apartments for rent 100 years ago ? This will back
Buy house at the moment is not great idea because prices has nothing to do with situation in real economy
But time for sell is one of the best anybody had if you will not sell it now you will not get better price after
If you did not understand I will remind that today prices has nothing to do in situation in real economy were 25 per cent are unemployed already.
From last news on RTE The government urged to reconsider lifting ban on eviction
Once this will happen there will be plenty houses for sale because not enough get tenant out the landlord will need get tenant in first !
But because many tenants are unemployed and cant pay rent the rent prices will down and many property investors will have problem with mortgages which they took by Buy to Let overpaying for property at the time when price of the property had nothing to do with the real economy
The Reit for example will continue buy streets of apartments boxes for renting to poor when single investors will have problems with renting houses for higher price
Supply ( the engine ) and demand ( the fuel ) are nothing without money ( the oil for fuel ).
Forget about 4000 in savings of somebody who saved them because did not spent them in pub or did not go to Spain for holiday .The 4K will not enough move property market forward.There is no houses at 4K price in this country
Forget about inflation the central banks rates show that people has no money and property markets can not move forward .All they do they pumping liquidity into stock market.People can not take loan even at 3 per cent because has no job !

OK lets break this down.

Prices are like this because we have p1ss poor supply and a demand that has been building up for years.

We dont know what the real unemployment rate is as people have been FORCED to close and to stop working so we will see what the figures are when we reopen fully.

How do you know you wont get a better price than now?? Have you a crystal ball? Prices are still some way off 2008 about 20% so we know they can go up another 20% as it has already happened. I think demand is going to go through the roof in the next decade with the governments decision to drop foreign refugees time to become legal here from 8 years to 4 months we are going to be flooded with people looking at our levels of welfare and saying mmmm I want some of that and here is the kicker with our left wing whinge merchants speaking loudest they will all be told they are entitled to be housed. Making things worse for indigenous Irish people trying to buy.

Once the eviction ban is lifted tenants can stay for up to 2 years or more while appealing and just playing the system. Once they do get evicted and they cant afford to pay the rent the state will have to intervene. Already we are seeing the state buy and rent more and more properties. These people still need somewhere to live so while a place may come into play either for sale or rent, another property will be taken away by these tenants being housed by the state. To further make things worse with regards to supply anyone who owns their own house and has a mortgage the banks have not got the wherewithal to take it off them legally as has been shown through the last recession with people not paying anything and living in a house for a good decade.

As for the landlords the majority stake holders of rental accommodation are REITS and Vultures who can afford to leave property vacant, some small landlords may have to sell but with the current drought of property they will get a good price it is a good time for them to sell.

As for savings we have the highest levels of savings in Irish banks accounts ever.

Your arguments hold absolute zero water I am afraid.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

When government will have chose pensions or HAP I am sure they will chose stop paying HAP for the start
Unfortunately this coming.The budget cutting is on its way .
The thing you are telling about not a fantasy this gonna be reality.

If it didnt happen after the last crash it wont happen now we are adding about 1/10th of the debt we had already and with the restructuring of the existing debt we will be paying as much interest as we were anyway. One thing they have learned is that austerity just puts the economy in the toilet so they will not be going this way again. It was one of the main reasons it took 4/5/6 years for Ireland to bounce back after 2007/2008 crash

PropQueries

fliball123 wrote: »

If it didnt happen after the last crash it wont happen now we are adding about 1/10th of the debt we had already and with the restructuring of the existing debt we will be paying as much interest as we were anyway. One thing they have learned is that austerity just puts the economy in the toilet so they will not be going this way again. It was one of the main reasons it took 4/5/6 years for Ireland to bounce back after 2007/2008 crash

Well, pre-covid, the Minister for Finance was already stating that we could lose €2 billion per year from the OECD tax reforms. And, that was before Biden's plans came out.

Where do we find that additional c. €2 billion per year? I would also presume the health care budget will increase by 10% (i.e. another c. €2 billion per year) going forward to pay for the backlog of operations/appointments built up during covid.

So, even if things go back to 2019 fairly quickly, we will still need to find c. €4 billion per annum going forward IMO. That's €20 billion over the next 5 years or the equivalent of 100,000 new built social homes at a build cost of €200k each over the next 5 years.

That's an incredible amount of cash that needs to be found which means all taxes from inheritance to property to income must increase as there's nothing left to really cut that would make any significant difference to the arithmetic IMO

RichardAnd

fliball123 wrote: »

If it didnt happen after the last crash it wont happen now we are adding about 1/10th of the debt we had already and with the restructuring of the existing debt we will be paying as much interest as we were anyway. One thing they have learned is that austerity just puts the economy in the toilet so they will not be going this way again. It was one of the main reasons it took 4/5/6 years for Ireland to bounce back after 2007/2008 crash

Austerity caused many problems, but could it not also be the case that state stimulus could cause a different set of problems? Given that any state spending will likely be fueled by quantitative easing (funny money), inflation could well be a problem.

To me, it wold be best if the state had no power to influence the economy one way or the other. The separation of church and state was a great idea. One can only dream that eventually the state and finance will be kept apart withal.

fliball123

PropQueries wrote: »

Well, pre-covid, the Minister for Finance was already stating that we could lose €2 billion per year from the OECD tax reforms. And, that was before Biden's plans came out.

Where do we find that additional c. €2 billion per year? I would also presume the health care budget will increase by 10% (i.e. another c. €2 billion per year) going forward to pay for the backlog of operations/appointments built up during covid.

So, even if things go back to 2019 fairly quickly, we will still need to find c. €4 billion per annum going forward IMO. That's €20 billion over the next 5 years or the equivalent of 100,000 new built social homes at a build cost of €200k each over the next 5 years.

That's an incredible amount of cash that needs to be found which means all taxes from inheritance to property to income must increase as there's nothing left to really cut that would make any significant difference to the arithmetic IMO

I believe the plan is to get out of the current crisis, see how we are doing and grow our way out.

We may lose 2 Billion or we may not lose 2 Billion we dont know yet. As for Biden if what he says comes in here in the form of a policy I will believe it until then I believe its more of the same from America lots of fluff and no substance.

Even with all of the above going on companies are still coming here and creating jobs not to mention Brexit and Covid and the country shut down. Imagine how attractive we will be when we open back up.

Also the OCED (supposed tax) is between 800m and 2b and it will take years for it to happen if it happens, its not just going to come into play over night.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/business/ireland-could-lose-2-billion-euros-a-year-under-global-tax-deal-1064546.html

As for the HSE there needs to be a a root and branch breakdown of where money goes in here as its like a bottomless pit. Having said that the 2 billion you mention will be more or less cost neutral as this will see a lot of people hired here meaning we will gain from not having to pay out welfare to these people who will be hired and they will be paying tax on their income. So its not going to be an additional 4 billion by any stretch of the imagination and your imagination has stretched so much its at breaking point.

fliball123

RichardAnd wrote: »

Austerity caused many problems, but could it not also be the case that state stimulus could cause a different set of problems? Given that any state spending will likely be fueled by quantitative easing (funny money), inflation could well be a problem.

To me, it wold be best if the state had no power to influence the economy one way or the other. The separation of church and state was a great idea. One can only dream that eventually the state and finance will be kept apart withal.

Well all I will say is they have learned from Austerity it did not have the desired affect, they thought by cutting and upping taxes they would see more money in their pockets. The cuts to the PS did not work due to the increments system so while they might of taken money away year on year money was flowing back into the PS anyway. Then the upping of taxes did not garner much more as people stopped working OT as it was not worth it and people stayed on the dole as with the welfare rates a person was only marginally financially better getting out of the bed. Throw in a lot of people just legged it when they seen there take home pay getting smaller so they got more taxes from a smaller pool of workers and overall income tax did not bring in more. The law of diminishing returns kicked them squarely in the pants.

I think the 40billion added last year and this year will (or may have already) started a property bubble. That is one problem I see that may have developed. The problem with bubbles is they can really only be seen in hindsight. Inflation has always been a problem and I cant see wage going up so it will cause problems if it goes up in any meaningful way. Fortunately the likes of the ECB are big enough to be able to dictate this and they know that if they do ramp up rates then a lot of countries are going to be blown out of the water. I dont think they will do that already they have lost the UK and others could follow if its no longer attractive to stay in the EU.

awec

RichardAnd wrote: »

Austerity caused many problems, but could it not also be the case that state stimulus could cause a different set of problems? Given that any state spending will likely be fueled by quantitative easing (funny money), inflation could well be a problem.

To me, it wold be best if the state had no power to influence the economy one way or the other. The separation of church and state was a great idea. One can only dream that eventually the state and finance will be kept apart withal.

Probably.

But austerity is a dead horse politically for the EU.

zinfandel

amacca wrote: »

What a lovely house

With a horrendous eyesore of an interior

My eyes my eyes they bleed


Lol at the mirror on the ceiling in the other one!

omg love to know who owns that! tasteful NOT...

PropQueries

awec wrote: »

Probably.

But austerity is a dead horse politically for the EU.

Depends on how you define austerity. Will the EU/ECB keep funding our deficits to pay what are among the highest public sector salaries and pensions in the EU? Because that's what primarily makes up our budget.

I doubt it IMO

Our version of "austerity" and the eastern EU members version of austerity are two completely different things IMO

Pussyhands

The government will just bring in austerity but it'll be hidden.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

awec

PropQueries wrote: »

Depends on how you define austerity. Will the EU/ECB keep funding our deficits to pay what are among the highest public sector salaries and pensions in the EU? Because that's what primarily makes up our budget.

I doubt it IMO

Our version of "austerity" and the eastern EU members version of austerity are two completely different things IMO

What percentage of our annual budget is public sector pay and salaries?