2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

Hubertj

Hubertj wrote: »

Congratulations on your purchase. Great to have this choice and improve work life balance. Are you planning to live there full time or will you also maintain a base in Dublin?

Thanks. I will be maintaining a base in Dublin, but because I have bought out west, and happy the Dublin place to be an apartment.

The other option was to upgrade in Dublin to a house. The 2nd home option (notwithstanding the ongoing extra expense) us a much more affordable and better life quality option

DataDude

fliball123 wrote: »

OK well page 3 of IRES states it owns 3,688 apartments and
houses for private rental in Ireland and doesn't give a breakdown

No idea why I'm arguing this because I really don't even care, but this is incredible straw clutching. You're suggesting their opening statement to prospective investors on their homepage is a lie then?
"Irish Residential Properties REIT Plc (I•RES) purchases and accumulates high quality apartment assets to let in the greater Dublin area"

and their investor report has a table which calls out 3668 "apts" but yet we're going to take the view they are major players in second hand non-apartment houses. Got it...

fliball123

DataDude wrote: »

No idea why I'm arguing this because I really don't even care, but this is incredible straw clutching. You're suggesting their opening statement to prospective investors on their homepage is a lie then?
"Irish Residential Properties REIT Plc (I•RES) purchases and accumulates high quality apartment assets to let in the greater Dublin area"

and their investor report has a table which calls out 3668 "apts" but yet we're going to take the view they are major players in second hand non-apartment houses. Got it...

I am trying to find out if they are or not. I never said they were I was looking for facts to see if they are or not. I dont take props word on anything as generally he doesnt have the stats to back it up. That figure is the same figure quoted on page 3 where is states apartments and houses?

cnocbui

bubblypop wrote: »

well you were very lucky that you could live anywhere you wanted to in the country. some of us have to live close to work or commutable distance to work:rolleyes:

In the example - buying my first house - I was living in Australia and I had to buy a really cheap house, in an unpopular suburb. I couldn't have afforded close to where I worked. :rolleyes:

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks. I will be maintaining a base in Dublin, but because I have bought out west, and happy the Dublin place to be an apartment.

The other option was to upgrade in Dublin to a house. The 2nd home option (notwithstanding the ongoing extra expense) us a much more affordable and better life quality option

Props has a tax, designed just for you.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

Props has a tax, designed just for you.

Yep. Hence why I mentioned ongoing extra expense. :rolleyes:

worth it for a view of the sea while I work

Hubertj

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thanks. I will be maintaining a base in Dublin, but because I have bought out west, and happy the Dublin place to be an apartment.

The other option was to upgrade in Dublin to a house. The 2nd home option (notwithstanding the ongoing extra expense) us a much more affordable and better life quality option

We’re starting to look at holiday homes around Ireland. Due to kids and my wife’s job we don’t have flexibility around working remotely etc. Enjoy and thanks for sharing your experience.

PropQueries

cnocbui wrote: »

Props has a tax, designed just for you.

It's not my tax idea and I'm not in favour of it just for taxation's sake

It's just that I'd rather my house, my income and my pension are not taxed. If that means taxing vacant second home owners (who by definition are not poor and contribute very little to the local economy of wherever their second home is located), I would rather they be taxed than me.

I also think it's a politically wise move instead of taxing the vast majority of the voting public's income, home and pensions who actually don't a have a second home.

In Washington D.C.:

"vacant property, is taxed at $5.00 per $100 of assessed value and blighted property, is taxed at $10.00 per $100 of assessed value."

So that's a 5% and 10% vacant or derelict property tax respectively in the home of modern capitalism.

Link to Washington D.C. vacant property taxes here: https://otr.cfo.dc.gov/page/otr-vacant-real-property

fliball123

PropQueries wrote: »

It's not my tax idea and I'm not in favour of it just for taxation's sake

It's just that I'd rather my house, my income and my pension are not taxed. If that means taxing vacant second home owners (who by definition are not poor and contribute very little to the local economy of wherever their second home is located), I would rather they be taxed than me.

I also think it's a politically wise move instead of taxing the vast majority of the voting public's income, home and pensions who actually don't a have a second home.

In Washington D.C.:

"vacant property, is taxed at $5.00 per $100 of assessed value and blighted property, is taxed at $10.00 per $100 of assessed value."

So that's a 5% and 10% vacant or derelict property tax respectively in the home of modern capitalism.

Link to Washington D.C. vacant property taxes here: https://otr.cfo.dc.gov/page/otr-vacant-real-property

So we want to be more like the America because they are a beacon for morality and a shining light?? Give me a break props.

thefridge2006

Speaking of tax......

Country-by-country multinational tax reporting ‘will happen’, says McGuinness

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/country-by-country-multinational-tax-reporting-will-happen-says-mcguinness-1.4513101

looks like we wont have it all our way moving forward....the wolves are gathering at the door

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

In the example - buying my first house - I was living in Australia and I had to buy a really cheap house, in an unpopular suburb. I couldn't have afforded close to where I worked. :rolleyes:

It was obviously commutable distance however

cnocbui

bubblypop wrote: »

It was obviously commutable distance however

Yes, of course, as were lots of other locations.

PropQueries

fliball123 wrote: »

So we want to be more like the America because they are a beacon for morality and a shining light?? Give me a break props.

Well if those c. 90,000 currently vacant homes are taxed at e.g. €10k each per annum, that just might make up for the expected shortfall in our share of the EU Brexit fund that may now be reduced and the Government had already most likely probably factored into next years budget.

From yesterday's Irish Times: "Irish share of €5bn EU Brexit fund could be slashed under French plan"

Link to article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/irish-share-of-5bn-eu-brexit-fund-could-be-slashed-under-french-plan-1.4512255

Cyrus

thefridge2006 wrote: »

Speaking of tax......

Country-by-country multinational tax reporting ‘will happen’, says McGuinness

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/country-by-country-multinational-tax-reporting-will-happen-says-mcguinness-1.4513101

looks like we wont have it all our way moving forward....the wolves are gathering at the door

what is your understanding of what has been proposed, what currently exists and what it actually means?

fliball123

PropQueries wrote: »

Well if those c. 90,000 currently vacant homes are taxed at e.g. €10k each per annum, that just might make up for the expected shortfall in our share of the EU Brexit fund that may now be reduced and the Government had already most likely probably factored into next years budget.

From yesterday's Irish Times: "Irish share of €5bn EU Brexit fund could be slashed under French plan"

Link to article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/irish-share-of-5bn-eu-brexit-fund-could-be-slashed-under-french-plan-1.4512255

Do they include the vacant rooms over shops?? Your still clutching at straws you have no proof that government are doing any of what your saying.

Browney7

fliball123 wrote: »

I am trying to find out if they are or not. I never said they were I was looking for facts to see if they are or not. I dont take props word on anything as generally he doesnt have the stats to back it up. That figure is the same figure quoted on page 3 where is states apartments and houses?

Was it not that props stated that the "vast majority of their properties are apartments". By "vast majority of" i'd take it as 75% and above. You then sought "proof".

Now IRES themselves have sought fit to not give an actual breakdown of apartments to houses but If you look through the IRES report you will see mentions of acquisitions and disposals and locations of properties disclosed. The reasonable person reviewing this document would have no reason to believe props' assertion is incorrect

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

Yes, of course, as were lots of other locations.

So, obviously one of those locations was where you were going to buy a house.
I'm not sure why you would argue this.
If location wasn't the first factor, you & everyone else would just look hundreds of miles away from where you work.

Other factors come into it when you know where you want to live.
I want to live in Dublin, therefore I don't look at house for sale in offaly

PropQueries

thefridge2006 wrote: »

Speaking of tax......

Country-by-country multinational tax reporting ‘will happen’, says McGuinness

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/country-by-country-multinational-tax-reporting-will-happen-says-mcguinness-1.4513101

looks like we wont have it all our way moving forward....the wolves are gathering at the door

Definitely. They're not gathering this information for general information purposes. They're gathering the information to use it against countries like Ireland etc.

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

Definitely. They're not gathering this information for general information purposes. They're gathering the information to use it against countries like Ireland etc.

ill ask you aswell

what is your understanding of what has been proposed, what currently exists and what it actually means?

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

ill ask you aswell

what is your understanding of what has been proposed, what currently exists and what it actually means?

Well the article states "A new EU law opposed by Ireland that would force multinationals to reveal their tax payments and activities per member state is on its way".

So, if I was German newspaper and I saw that Google reported sales of e.g. €5 billion in my country in 2021 and they only paid tax of e.g. €5 million, that's going to make headlines and the German people can now see how much they are losing in tax revenues on an annual basis if the status quo remains.

If anything, the opposition will just throw it in the government's face every time there's a debate on cuts to expenditure or rises in taxes.

That will be incentive enough for each country to start closing loopholes IMO

The interesting one will be if there are many German based companies using such loopholes and that will only add fuel to the fire IMO

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

Well the article states "A new EU law opposed by Ireland that would force multinationals to reveal their tax payments and activities per member state is on its way".

So, if I was German newspaper and I saw that Google reported sales of e.g. €5 billion in my country in 2021 and they only paid tax of e.g. €5 million, that's going to make headlines and the German people can now see how much they are losing in tax revenues on an annual basis if the status quo remains.

If anything, the opposition will just throw it in the government's face every time there's a debate on cuts to expenditure or rises in taxes.

That will be incentive enough for each country to start closing loopholes IMO

The interesting one will be if there are many German based companies using such loopholes and that will only add fuel to the fire IMO

thats the problem with relying on newspapers for this kind of information, CBCR has been in force since 2016, all this is making that information public, the respective tax authorities already have it.

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

thats the problem with relying on newspapers for this kind of information, CBCR has been in force since 2016, all this is making that information public, the respective tax authorities already have it.

Hence my argument on what happens when the media also have access to the same information

PropQueries

I think we’ve hit a new ridiculous pricing category on what developers want to charge councils for social housing units. According to the SBP:

“Louth County Council could pay €362,000 each for two-bed social housing units at a new apartment complex in Drogheda.”

Link to SBP article here: https://www.businesspost.ie/houses/louth-county-council-could-pay-eur362k-for-two-bed-social-housing-units-634f8a03

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

Hence my argument on what happens when the media also have access to the same information

Very little different in my opinion. This has been blown up on here meanwhile we have been working in this environment for the past 4 years .

Yurt2

PropQueries wrote: »

I think we’ve hit a new ridiculous pricing category on what developers want to charge councils for social housing units. According to the SBP:

“Louth County Council could pay €362,000 each for two-bed social housing units at a new apartment complex in Drogheda.”

Link to SBP article here: https://www.businesspost.ie/houses/louth-county-council-could-pay-eur362k-for-two-bed-social-housing-units-634f8a03

Are couples/individuals seriously going to bite on 362k two-bed apartments in Drogheda? Or is this another case of REITS buying off-plans, units sitting empty, and then slowly being leased to local authorities at over-the-odds long-term leases.

Ush1

Yurt! wrote: »

Are couples/individuals seriously going to bite on 362k two-bed apartments in Drogheda? Or is this another case of REITS buying off-plans, units sitting empty, and then slowly being leased to local authorities at over-the-odds long-term leases.

The price could be totally different for the non social units. Builders know the government has deep pockets.

PropQueries

According to RTÉ, Leo Varadkar has said:

“Mr Varadkar also cautioned that the transition to remote working could "hollow out" our major cities, which could face competition from other locations from which workers could choose to work remotely from anywhere.

Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway will be competing with Barcelona, Liverpool, Paris and Lisbon in the battle for talent. And talent can remote work from almost anywhere, so our cities need to be vibrant places where talent wants to live”

I like the way he kept out any city in Eastern Europe. If he did, that would bring up the high cost of living comparisons IMO and if, as Leo said, these workers can live anywhere, why would they choose Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford or Galway?

Link to article on RTÉ here: https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0318/1204784-living-wage-varadkar/

Yurt2

Ush1 wrote: »

The price could be totally different for the non social units. Builders know the government has deep pockets.

More than likely, these are going straight into the hands of REITs in-bulk for them to sit on. My question was rhetorical, if a couple / individual has 362k to spend, they're not about to spend it on a two bed unit in Drogheda.

Hubertj

Yurt! wrote: »

More than likely, these are going straight into the hands of REITs in-bulk for them to sit on. My question was rhetorical, if a couple / individual has 362k to spend, they're not about to spend it on a two bed unit in Drogheda.

Maybe you would if you really really really really really really really wanted to live in drogheda. And had more money than sense

Yurt2

Hubertj wrote: »

Maybe you would if you really really really really really really really wanted to live in drogheda. And had more money than sense

It's a niche market I agree.