2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

Villa05

fliball123 wrote:

I dont think increasing the supply is as easy as you think and who are you to tell a person who owns a property what to do with it? if people want to live, rent or airBnb the hell out of their property that is their business.

I'm not telling them, as far as I am aware sole airbnb of a residential property is illegal

Timing belt

Marius34 wrote: »

If Couple cancelling their 30K weddings and 10K honeymoon, they might be now in position to buy.
If single/couple on 100K were not able to save 10% deposit, now they might have.
If single/couple was increasing saving very slowly, they might do it much faster now.

There are so many different scenarios, that additional savings can make them from non-potential buyer to potential buyer, in a year, without change in their job/wage.

yes but you need to remember that according to HDL only couples on a combined income over 200k would benefit and be able to buy which would imply that we are looking at top end properties with a value 800k (200k x3.5 +100k deposit) and not the FTB's market where the majority of people would be looking after saving money from not going to gigs, holidays and all the other items that HDL thinks people will waste their savings on.

Villa05

fliball123 wrote:

Also heard a few stats on Newstalk there we had an extra 10k people nett hired by multinationals last year so all the talk of them making masses redundant are unfounded and our saving rates up to November or last year ballooned up to 124k Billion in personal savings account and 72 billion in business savings accounts. Thats a lot of savings.

I don't hear concerns of multinationals making masses redundant. I do hear valid concerns to the valuations of those companies and the risk that might pose for the future
Also with regard to your claim that there is no affordability issue, why does Google (a company that pays the highest average salary in the country) feel the need to buy residential property for its staff

Villa05

fliball123 wrote:

Then on the same program a very sad discussion and interviews with 100s living on the street in inner city Dublin in around the gaiety theater who wont go into hostels as its full of drugs and prefer to stay on the street in this horrible freezing weather. So should the government stop snapping up property and just let these people die ?? 2 died over xmas in the cold in Dublin. This is where the government are in a catch 22 situation

I'm glad that this forum has brought out your caring side and the socialist within you.
I'm sure you will admit that the first warnings of a housing crisis were nearly a decade ago. Would it be difficult in that time to have a dedicated shelter for people who do not consume drugs in our capital city

fliball123

Villa05 wrote: »

I don't hear concerns of multinationals making masses redundant. I do hear valid concerns to the valuations of those companies and the risk that might pose for the future
Also with regard to your claim that there is no affordability issue, why does Google (a company that pays the highest average salary in the country) feel the need to buy residential property for its staff

Well if you looked through some of the commentary on here before xmas people were arguing that MNC where letting people go by the truck load...

As for google a few reasons
One they can afford it.
Two they still own the property and if property can withstand corona for a year it must be fairly solid investment. Where else do they put their money
Three its a way to incentive people to come here from other countries we have not got enough tech experts to fill the jobs available in some of these companies

Google buying property is not really an argument for property being affordable. I have given you the average on both AIW and Property price and as I said most expert groups with regard to property agree that property is not overpriced here. Unfortunately the idea that if you want to live in an area that a lot of other people want to live in as in Dublin along the coast or leafy Foxrock. You have to pay a premium to do so. I also told you this is not unique to Ireland Look at America, Australia, England, France and look at places in here like Sydney, Manhattan, London and Paris..There is a premium needed to be paid to live in a desirable area. Your not making any headway with your argument with google bought some property

Mic 1972

All properties i have viewed and bid so far went for significantly higher than asking price, the last one i viewed had an asking price of 230K, it went for 272K.
none of them were under priced for the area, they were priced at the current sale price for similar properties.
I think we are witnessing the start of another leg up in price increases

Knex*

Mic 1972 wrote: »

All properties i have viewed and bid so far went for significantly higher than asking price, the last one i viewed had an asking price of 230K, it went for 272K.
none of them were under priced for the area, they were priced at the current sale price for similar properties.
I think we are witnessing the start of another leg up in price increases

Put a bid in for a turn key house in Dublin with an asking price of 485 before Christmas. Judging by similar properties over the past two years, I would have had a value of about 480 on it.

3 other bidders in the process and it was up over 510 before I dropped out.

Supply is drastically down though. 3033 houses in all of Dublin up on My Home. Back on the 7th of October this was 4457, which was already lower than you'd expect in a normal year.

Anything that looks remotely decent is gonna snap up more attention than it would in normal times. It'll be a while before that can change and people feel comfortable putting their homes online again.

CorkRed93

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-ignored-repeated-warnings-that-75m-housing-scheme-would-increase-prices-1.4451837?mode=amp
A surprise to nobody

Villa05

fliball123 wrote:

I have given you the average on both AIW and Property price and as I said most expert groups with regard to property agree that property is not overpriced here. Unfortunately the idea that if you want to live in an area that a lot of other people want to live in as in Dublin along the coast or leafy Foxrock.

You gave me the figures for a couple on average salary. However household income statistics would suggest that only the top 30% of households earn that income or greater. Basic statistics tell us this in that the average is skewed by high earners who may wish to live in leafy suburbs near the coast and good luck to them

You then gave the average price for a house in the whole country while admitting that affordability issues are confined to cities and surronds

A cities wealth is derived from the people who work there. It is not unreasonable for people who create the wealth in a city to be able to live in that city at an affordable rate. If they can't it can be deemed unaffordable.

With regard to other cities much bigger than Dublin being unaffordable, that would give credence to the concerns that we are in a significant asset price bubble and if people on high salaries are paying greater amounts on accomodation the scope for inflation to take hold is much reduced and this appears to be the basis for for the high valuations of assets be it stocks or property

fliball123

Villa05 wrote: »

You gave me the figures for a couple on average salary. However household income statistics would suggest that only the top 30% of households earn that income or greater. Basic statistics tell us this in that the average is skewed by high earners who may wish to live in leafy suburbs near the coast and good luck to them

You then gave the average price for a house in the whole country while admitting that affordability issues are confined to cities and surronds

A cities wealth is derived from the people who work there. It is not unreasonable for people who create the wealth in a city to be able to live in that city at an affordable rate. If they can't it can be deemed unaffordable.

With regard to other cities much bigger than Dublin being unaffordable, that would give credence to the concerns that we are in a significant asset price bubble and if people on high salaries are paying greater amounts on accomodation the scope for inflation to take hold is much reduced and this appears to be the basis for for the high valuations of assets be it stocks or property

I have also told you that WFH is changing that dynamic ..Billy the computer programmer no longer has to live in D4 or D2 to work in Grand Canal Dock. Billy can now buy somewhere in Cavan or Monaghan or up in a mountain somewhere in Donegal as he is working from home and quite possible will never have to go back into an office. So the country average price is an apt value to use. The average house price is 270k and currently over half of the available stock for sale on myhome is coming in under or on the 275k that.

OK so lets switch away form the AIW and change it to the median wage if you dont like average. So basically the middle point when you take all employees in. The median wage is currently about 31k a year. So lets to the maths again based on a couple on the median wage. This means a couple would be able to buy a house at about 240k. Currently about half the properties available on my home are coming at 250k and under bracket. So the data actually proves the point that there are properties out there that people can afford but you still dont get the idea that you have to pay a premium to live in certain areas.


https://extra.ie/2019/11/21/news/irish-news/cso-average-weekly-wage

Smouse156

CorkRed93 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-ignored-repeated-warnings-that-75m-housing-scheme-would-increase-prices-1.4451837?mode=amp
A surprise to nobody

Scumbags!

Hubertj

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/council-construction-considerably-more-expensive-than-private-development-report-1.4451602

Interesting insights from the council and the difficulties and challenges of building public housing. I thought some claimed it could be built much easier and cheaper by the council.

fliball123

Hubertj wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/council-construction-considerably-more-expensive-than-private-development-report-1.4451602

Interesting insights from the council and the difficulties and challenges of building public housing. I thought some claimed it could be built much easier and cheaper by the council.

How could it once the public sector are involved it means an extra layer of bureaucracy and expense.

AdamD

fliball123 wrote: »

I have also told you that WFH is changing that dynamic ..Billy the computer programmer no longer has to live in D4 or D2 to work in Grand Canal Dock. Billy can now buy somewhere in Cavan or Monaghan or up in a mountain somewhere in Donegal as he is working from home and quite possible will never have to go back into an office. So the country average price is an apt value to use. The average house price is 270k and currently over half of the available stock for sale on myhome is coming in under or on the 275k that.

OK so lets switch away form the AIW and change it to the median wage if you dont like average. So basically the middle point when you take all employees in. The median wage is currently about 31k a year. So lets to the maths again based on a couple on the median wage. This means a couple would be able to buy a house at about 240k. Currently about half the properties available on my home are coming at 250k and under bracket. So the data actually proves the point that there are properties out there that people can afford but you still dont get the idea that you have to pay a premium to live in certain areas.


https://extra.ie/2019/11/21/news/irish-news/cso-average-weekly-wage

Except most Billy the programmers have zero interest in living in Cavan

fliball123

AdamD wrote: »

Except most Billy the programmers have zero interest in living in Cavan

Possibly but then Billy like every other Tom, Dick and Harry has to pay a premium if they want to live in an area that is desirable. That unfortunately is the way the property market works all over the globe. Ireland is not an exception. Would I love to have a gaff over looking the sea in Howth. Hell yeah can I afford it: NO. Does that mean I cant afford property in Ireland: NO

Mic 1972

AdamD wrote: »

Except most Billy the programmers have zero interest in living in Cavan

maybe not Cavan, but i'm now renting rooms in D15 to people who work from home for Amazon and Google. It's a lot more convenient for them to rent in D15 than D2

fliball123

Mic 1972 wrote: »

maybe not Cavan, but i'm now renting rooms in D15 to people who work from home for Amazon and Google. It's a lot more convenient for them to rent in D15 than D2

Probably a bit more expensive than Cavan do

PommieBast

Knex* wrote: »

Anything that looks remotely decent is gonna snap up more attention than it would in normal times. It'll be a while before that can change and people feel comfortable putting their homes online again.

My biggest complaint about the Dublin property market is not so much the prices but the shockingly poor quality of the stock you get for it.

fliball123

PommieBast wrote: »

My biggest complaint about the Dublin property market is not so much the prices but the shockingly poor quality of the stock you get for it.

Its not just Dublin there is a drought of available properties all over the country. Myhome as of today now has less than 13k Properties available for sale and to put that in perspective this time last year we had over 23k Properties available for sale on myhome and people wonder why property prices are not falling?

Villa05

AdamD wrote:

Except most Billy the programmers have zero interest in living in Cavan

Billy the programmer will be alright, he most likely will have a place in Dublin
It's Nuala nurse or Mike mechanic or Sammy shopkeeper. If they have to commute 4 hours a day to complete their work. There work suffers, the people of the city suffer , their children suffer, the environment suffers, business suffer. The country suffers

All needless and avoidable

6541

Following thread a long time now. It is clear to everyone that the property is overpriced, scarce as hen's teeth and shocking quality.
It's so bad now that something is going to have to give.

fliball123

Villa05 wrote: »

Billy the programmer will be alright, he most likely will have a place in Dublin
It's Nuala nurse or Mike mechanic or Sammy shopkeeper. If they have to commute 4 hours a day to complete their work. There work suffers, the people of the city suffer , their children suffer, the environment suffers, business suffer. The country suffers

All needless and avoidable

As has been the case for a couple of generations. It still does not mean that Nuala, Mike or Sammy cannot afford a house in Ireland.

Its up to each individual to make their own choices in life and if these people choose those professions they should have looked at the salary and at the locations where the work would be as well as what strain it will put on their lifestyle. I don't see why anyone should feel entitled to live where they want. If you dont like where you live but cannot afford something in a more suitable area for yourself then retrain or upskill and get a job that puts more money in your pocket and gives you more options socially.

fliball123

6541 wrote: »

Following thread a long time now. It is clear to everyone that the property is overpriced, scarce as hen's teeth and shocking quality.
It's so bad now that something is going to have to give.

bleedin hell how is it overpriced?

Hubertj

Villa05 wrote: »

Billy the programmer will be alright, he most likely will have a place in Dublin
It's Nuala nurse or Mike mechanic or Sammy shopkeeper. If they have to commute 4 hours a day to complete their work. There work suffers, the people of the city suffer , their children suffer, the environment suffers, business suffer. The country suffers

All needless and avoidable

Any comment on the article I linked?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/council-construction-considerably-more-expensive-than-private-development-report-1.4451602

You seem to think there is a simple solution. Looks far from it based on comments from people who know a lot more about it than you or I.

Affordability and availability are an issue but there is no simple or quick fix.

optogirl

fliball123 wrote: »

bleedin hell how is it overpriced?

because a third of a million can't by you a decent family home in Dublin

Villa05

Hubertj wrote:

Any comment on the article I linked?

I did but it's not posted, maybe the mods can explain. Hint Check out the track record of the person that compiled that report

fliball123

optogirl wrote: »

because a third of a million can't by you a decent family home in Dublin

If everyone could afford to live in Dublin prices would go up .. lots of other areas in the country for people to buy in

optogirl

fliball123 wrote: »

If everyone could afford to live in Dublin prices would go up .. lots of other areas in the country for people to buy in

not as easy as that. We are from Dublin, work in Dublin, kids go to school in Dublin. Eldest has Aspergers & the school are fantastic & both kids are very, very happy there. In our 9 years of parenthood we have never needed childcare & never wanted for a babysitter because we have them on tap. We can easily commute to work without car. If we move to Leitrim to a 5 bedroom house we now have to factor in commutes, 2 cars, move schools, after school care etc etc. Our outgoings would be crippling. We've resolved to continue to rent in Dublin as we just keep getting outbid on every house. Ultimately our quality of life is more important than owning a house. Still a pain in the proverbial though.

fliball123

optogirl wrote: »

not as easy as that. We are from Dublin, work in Dublin, kids go to school in Dublin. Eldest has Aspergers & the school are fantastic & both kids are very, very happy there. In our 9 years of parenthood we have never needed childcare & never wanted for a babysitter because we have them on tap. We can easily commute to work without car. If we move to Leitrim to a 5 bedroom house we now have to factor in commutes, 2 cars, move schools, after school care etc etc. Our outgoings would be crippling. We've resolved to continue to rent in Dublin as we just keep getting outbid on every house. Ultimately our quality of life is more important than owning a house. Still a pain in the proverbial though.

Sorry about your situation but thats how it is at the moment there a lot of people who pre covid had to commute in from surround areas in Leinster to Dublin due to a lack of decent supply. There are houses up for sale in Areas like Finglas, Tallaght etc but some people will not live there. You have to weigh it all up and make sure its a good fit for yourself

PommieBast

6541 wrote: »

Following thread a long time now. It is clear to everyone that the property is overpriced, scarce as hen's teeth and shocking quality.
It's so bad now that something is going to have to give.

For me that "something" is whether I will remain in Ireland post-Covid. Pretty much going to be rebuilding my life once its all over, so everything is on the table..