Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

cson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167067#Comment_122167067

David Hawkshaw got plenty of chances this season and he's not up to it in any position at Connacht's level nevermind Leinster so you can forget that.

Leinster have an enviable structure the way the private schools with all their wealth are able to shape players into being pro ready for a team that's as advanced as Leinster. The benefit of that is Leinster end up with far more central contracts that the other provinces with the ability to spend the money saved on the likes or Jordie Barrett for instance.

However stockpiling that talent is, I would argue, ultimately going to hold back some players who won't get the minutes to develop and that will hurt the national team when we've all our eggs in one basket (currently a Hugo Keenan shaped FB basket as one example). Sending the likes of Prendergast on loan or otherwise is exactly what the IRFU should be directing Leinster to do.

Besides, I bet he's stoked to be able to play alongside big brother next season.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167003#Comment_122167003

Of Course there is a huge temptation of having him staying after the first year if he was going well,

BUT that isn't the deal… I am like you, this deal has to be a Win - Win on both sides for it to continue.. If we somehow kept Sam then Leinster wouldn't send any more in the future, I wanted Frawley to be sent here for 2 years about 5 years ago, that didn't happen and if it did, Leinster could be fielding a different 10 on Saturday.

It has to be Win - Win or Leo gets it in the neck from Leinster fans (which is fair enough).

I will say that in a years time if Leinster has a glut of out halves better quality than Sam(which I think unlikely) and Sam is going to be 4th choice, then we would see if there is another win win…

CuriousCucumber

I think the hype around Prendergast is slightly over the top.

He had a good U-20 6 Nations 15 months ago, and then some moments with Leinster.

He hasn't pushed on this season, like people had hoped, but remember that he is still young.

I wouldn't be too excited if he signed permanently, nevermind on a loan

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167141#Comment_122167141

Don't see what you have against Carty…

He is a better passer of the ball at 10, he tackles well…

His main weakness is off the tee…

This season JJ is 86% off the tee and Jack is 68%… That is one kick missed for every 5.5 kicks taken… That is a considerable difference but is it worth it, if your backline is not moving.

BTW last season JJ was 78%, Jack was 70%…

BTW If the Stats are right Cathal Forde is on a 100% for his career in Connacht. 4 kicks form 4…. Am I right in thinking that..

Saying that Carty wage is high, because he is an out half… To replace him will cost…

Personally, I think the out halves are getting blamed for coaching issues… Easy to blame the 10 because they throw a pass that looks bad but the player isn't in the right place… JJ had issues with this too..

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122167067#Comment_122167067

I agree with you that something is not right with the coaching this year or what they are trying is not getting communicated properly…

I hoping after a year and over the summer they get that sorted… That is the wish…

Mr Tickle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170050#Comment_122170050

John Cooney and Jack Carty would actually be a very good pairing

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169949#Comment_122169949

His upside is good but yea there are definite flaws currently.

SqueakyKneecap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170050#Comment_122170050

Nobody is blaming Carty or JJ for coaching issues. Every single regular on here knows how bad Wilkins, Sexton, Tucker, Fardy & Mul have been overall as a coaching ticket. Connacht have already found what will hopefully be our first choice scrumhalf for next season and the reason OH is so talked about is because Carty isn't the main to be first choice OH next season. Looking to sign somebody like Prendergast even on loan is telling in that it could've easily been Carty with West as deputy for 24/25 if they backed that combo. It might seem harsh to yourself but this is professional sport. Nobody believes signing a Prendergast on loan means there won't be plenty more knock-ons from restarts next season but it might solve a couple of key issues like goal-kicking and static OH's.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169894#Comment_122169894

Yeah in hindsight, Frawley playing more games 5 years ago would probably have been great for him. Instead he's been shuffled around, played relatively few minutes and fewer minutes in important games (granted he was injured for a good portion too) and never found a primary position.

Connacht would give those players far more responsibility in bigger games which would properly test themto see how good they are. But there has to be trust that the loaning team will get the player back if they want them.

It doesn't solve the problem of the difference in size of the player pool or the quality of the leinster school system, but it would probably help.

FACECUTTR

Munster confirm Farrell is signed on a 2 year deal.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166608#Comment_122166608

Sam is on 379 mins played this season… He wants to be on 1000+ min of URC or better to progress… ROG said his first ten games for Ireland were a blur….

Scarletts at home OR Stormers away with 3rd string are crap minutes…

The problem you have is that you would salt your feild rather than have it feed your neighbours… If Frawley was lent to Connacht 5 years ago for 2 years, you would be playing a different 10 on Saturday.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169949#Comment_122169949

There is a lot of nice attributes to his game… He far from the finished article but there is no doubt on his talent…

He is just starved on minutes…

Sam needs 1000+ min seasons for the next 3 years of high level rugby which he has to learn how to win and close out games.

With his level of talent and the mins Connacht have on offer I am excited for the guy, if he gets the right coaching…

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170129#Comment_122170129

They were a very good pairing but Marmion was just so good…

Marmion and Carty were a very exicting pairing and I think if it i Jack or Sam next year Devine is going to be serving it hopefully…

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170344#Comment_122170344

I find that OH take more risks if they know the team needs them more…

OH knows that their Maul have to be on the 5 meter line if they are to score with certian teams, so they take the risk on the penalty…

Can't break there line, chip over the top… It's risk… Good OH take them because someone needs to take Responsibility… Johnny and ROG were like that, I think that is where Ross really suffers…

When the Coaching team is a mess the guy directing the show looks like an idiot a lot of the time… Then their confidence is effected and Jack Carty is very much a confidence player.

I am with you on coaching, unless we get that right, it don't matter who is No. 10…

My real worry about this coaching tickety is how they seem to drop players… Bundee was dropped last year(by Wilkins), Farrell was then dropped, Cathal took his place and then dropped, Carty gone when leadership is needed… I think players might be keeping there mouths shut in case of the axe, this seems to have created a massive lack of leadership within the team… Maybe I am wrong, this is more of an opinion..

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171168#Comment_122171168

Devine will get the minutes next year so he'll get a chance to prove himself in Connacht's most import games. That's ideal. Well all know how good he looks by this time next year.

Prendergast will probably get similar minutes next year to this year, maybe a few more and maybe even a champions cup game or 2. It's not nearly enough.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171164#Comment_122171164

He’s not starved of minutes - he’s still just 20 years of age and he’s played 16 times for Leinster for 546 mins.

Compare that to any of his peers from recent Irish U20s teams and he’s way in front:

Brian Gleeson - (20) 11 games (181 mins) (injured this year)

Tony Butler - (22) 7 games (246 mins)

Harry West - (21) 0 games

Charlie Tector (22) - 9 games (106 mins).

Claiming he’s starved of minutes is nonsense.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170375#Comment_122170375

It has to be a win win situation for both sides, some will win a bit more than others at times but the trust has to be there…

Connacht are getting a little bit smarter by the way, look at Finn Treacy… Leinster Schools but straight to Connacht Academy… College in NUIG…

https://galwegians.ie/2024/02/finn-treacy-profile/

ElisaAtWar

I remember many many years ago saying Jack was dragging us to nothing. He continues to do so. And the first thing I understand about that comment is that such a negative comment needs an alternative. In every case I have tried to provide an alternative look. As compared to these Connacht jokers supposedly coaching our team

Evil_g

Thought you said you were leaving?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172470#Comment_122172470

He was feeling lonely as misery loves company

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171880#Comment_122171880

Truth is we have hired a lot of outhalves to replace Jack. There is a list…

McGinty was the only one who really disposed him of the 10 jersey up until this year and even then Jack had more game time for the whole season.

This was the first season in Ten years that Jack didn't have the most amount of mins at 10 for the season.

Outhalves are expensive, there wages is considerably higher than other positions. Getting good ones are even more expensive. That is why JJ was picked so quickly, he was a bargain and he was IQ to boot. It was great deal and very unfortunate his injury…

As a shout out: I hear JJ is coaching Corinthians next season during recovery. Thanks JJ for giving back, your experience is much appreciated.

So next season (well the start of it ) will be Jack and Sam, I think this might be a nice dynamic and I think Jack can bring a lot to Sam's game to make him progress really fast. Jack is a very much heads up player who likes to run a line on a flat pass… Sam is the same way and they could very good for a back line if the coaching can swim with them.

Mr Tickle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171168#Comment_122171168

Yeah Marmion was great alright. I just mean in the last few years since kicking has become part of Cooney's game, the two would compliment each other nicely.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173342#Comment_122173342

Sam's passing game is a real strength of his - he has a lovely whipped pass, and has a really good ability to camouflage his intentions and sit down defenders on the gain line, think Connacht fans will very much enjoy watching this part of his game next season.

I'm mentioned it elsewhere - but I do have concerns on his defence. He makes his tackles for the most part, but never looks overly convincing, and misses plenty too. A lot of people attribute this to his pretty skinny frame, and hopefully this is all it is, but my concerns have been that I think he looks like a guy who shies away from contact a bit, and I don't think that's something you ever really lose if it is the case. Very much hope I'm wrong on this one.

Either way - he's a really bright talent.

CuriousCucumber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173342#Comment_122173342

AJ didn't dispose Carty.

Carty got injured and we played Shane O'Leary, AJ and Ronaldson all at different times, in his absence. AJ became the preferred option by the end of the season, but to say he disposed of Carty is wrong

Mr Tickle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173381#Comment_122173381

Yeah Jack and Ronaldson were both out injured by the end of the season. AJ was ahead of O'Leary and that's about it. He did seem to be on an upwards trajectory though. It's such a pity it worked out like that with him and Boshoff.

Shelflife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173342#Comment_122173342

I think we hired few if any dedicated outhalves.

We hired 12s who could play 10, 13s who could play 10 and 15s who could play 10.

Players who were listed as OH were played in the main as centres or FBs.

Boshoff was probably the last OH signed until JJ.

For me the problem was we signed back up to Jack, we never signed competition to Jack.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173380#Comment_122173380

Fair enough about his tackling… He is quite light for his frame still and understand if he not throwing in dominate tackles…

Let's rem ROG was for most part just a speed bump during his career…

I think Jack could contribute to that part of his game… There are tackles you should be making and rucks to get involved in and there are ones to give to others… Split second decisions which have to be part of your instinct..

As for passing, Jack likes the flat pass and loves a good no look pass as well.. I think that way they will really compliment each other… Just like the look of the dynamic, old warhorse and the young gun who have quite similar styles…

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173381#Comment_122173381

I have no problem being corrected… Can't rem it all that well for some reason…

So Jack has been our No.1 outhalf for 10 years almost without break… There was even concerns that the team played well when Jack played well and didn't when Jack played badly or wasn't there. There is a lot truth in that (as with most out halves).

Personally I would to see a rejuvenated Jack next season with Sam coming through, much like the days when Dan Parks and Jack were playing..

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173549#Comment_122173549

It was very hard to find someone of that high quality who would come to Connacht and try dispose the local lad who was playing pretty good…

Seriously thought Frawley should have been sent down (on loan) 5 years ago to try… It would have been a great for Connacht, Leinster and Ireland… Instead they used Frawley as utility player, if that happened I think Frawley would be 10 this weekend..

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173698#Comment_122173698

I thought it was ironic that ROJ became a defence coach after kicking coach with Racing Metro. But I must have overlooked the defensive organisational skills he had.

That's a bit like the 'unseen' donkey work a second row does, except even less visible to spectators.

I've no idea if Prendergast has that skill but I hope he can develop it because he certainly isn't a dominant tackler. But I don't really want my 10 to be a massive tackler. I want them to be competent but basically part of organising the defence so the best tacklers are in position to make the big hits.