Would you track your child's online activity?

riffmongous

Has anyone who secretly monitored ever have the kids find out? What was the reaction?

biko

OP is an example of friends without kids that have opinions on how to raise kids.
Unless you have kids it's almost impossible to image what it's like to be a parent.



And yes I have. Also we use OpenDNS FamilyShield to filter the worst from the net.

pah

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have no kids myself but parents monitoring what a 17 year old is doing online is bizarre behaviour so I'll reserve judgement until I do

FYP

Valresnick

_Brian wrote: »

Youngest is 12.

We have her phone unlock code and regularly check history, texts and other communication.

It’s the deal of her having the phone and getting credit.

Yeah normal, I have no idea why people are opposed to this approach. Oh hold on wait I do, they’ve no kids or they have kids and they just couldn’t give a flying shyte....

Sardonicat

Stihl waters wrote: »

Yes, that's exactly the same thing

No, parents monitor children's online activity to prevent them from bring exposed to material unsuitable for a minor and to protect them from adult predators. A wife monitoring her husband is just invading his privacy.

One eyed Jack

biko wrote: »

OP is an example of friends without kids that have opinions on how to raise kids.
Unless you have kids it's almost impossible to image what it's like to be a parent.

Ahh it’s not really. I’m guessing one of the many reasons people want to have children of their own in the first place is because they imagine what it’s like to be a parent. The differences between expectations and outcomes aren’t all that exponentially different that it would be even almost impossible to imagine what it would be like for anyone to be a parent to their own children.

The OP really isn’t any different as an example of people who have opinions on how other people raise their own children. The parents in the OP’s example opened themselves up to that judgement when they tell the OP about how they raise their children. Without knowing the full context of how that conversation went, I wouldn’t be too quick to judge the parents for laughing about their 17 year olds porn habits. Constantly monitoring their children like that though must be mentally exhausting, apart from any ethical or moral concerns about the parents behaviour and attitudes towards their own children or what their children are learning from their parents behaviours and attitudes.

pah

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ahh it’s not really. I’m guessing one of the many reasons people want to have children of their own in the first place is because they imagine what it’s like to be a parent. The differences between expectations and outcomes aren’t all that exponentially different that it would be even almost impossible to imagine what it would be like for anyone to be a parent to their own children.

The OP really isn’t any different as an example of people who have opinions on how other people raise their own children. The parents in the OP’s example opened themselves up to that judgement when they tell the OP about how they raise their children. Without knowing the full context of how that conversation went, I wouldn’t be too quick to judge the parents for laughing about their 17 year olds porn habits. Constantly monitoring their children like that though must be mentally exhausting, apart from any ethical or moral concerns about the parents behaviour and attitudes towards their own children or what their children are learning from their parents behaviours and attitudes.

So..... No kids of your own then?

GarIT

The things that are difficult to monitor are the worst too. Kik and Snapchat are lethal.

"Exploring yourself" or "BDSM intro" chat rooms for 13-17 year olds where accounts are anonymous and there is no age verification makes me sick.

I haven't found any software that can monitor the automatically deleting messages in Snapchat or Kik.

Strumms

danslevent wrote: »

Thank you all for your replies.

I agree, 17 ia definitely too old for that...I just find it a massive invasion od privacy. Also, it's really unfair on their friends. All their personal messages to these children are being read.

I agree. To be honest... if I’m a parent of one of this kids friends and I found out I’d be having a word, a none to quiet a word with the parents who installed this..
I’m not happy about communications which my kid sends to a friend being intercepted and read by a third party, parent or otherwise... as a parent you are not going to sit with your ear to the door and listen to a conversation between Sean and David, what makes you think it’s ok to snoop on electronic private messages?

Genuine question... is it even actually legal in Ireland to do this? just had a very quick google search and nothing conclusive either way....but whatever about legal, it’s sure ain’t ethical...

Stihl waters

Sardonicat wrote: »

No, parents monitor children's online activity to prevent them from bring exposed to material unsuitable for a minor and to protect them from adult predators. A wife monitoring her husband is just invading his privacy.

That's what I meant

Atlantic Dawn

If I had a child and found out their online conversations to a friend were being monitored by that childs parents I would find that very disturbing.

GarIT

Strumms wrote: »

as a parent you are not going to sit with your ear to the door and listen to a conversation between Sean and David, what makes you think it’s ok to snoop on electronic private messages?

My mother certainly did. Regularly drove past where I said I would be to see if I was there too.

Not saying that it's right but people do.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Might have been asked already, but: do the kids know?

I would monitor a 13 year old but not a 17 year old, and maybe just browser activity and messages to people not in their address book. I would also make sid kid aware of the fact that his activity is being tracked (although not nessecarily viewed).

17 year old is practically an adult - even if you find something suspicious (although not illegal), what are you going to do?

One eyed Jack

pah wrote: »

So..... No kids of your own then?

Surely the fact that different people raise their children according to their own standards is enough to inform you that there isn’t one single objective standard of raising children? If that wasn’t enough, I don’t think the fact that I’m a parent is going to be of much use to you one way or the other. You don’t appear to be too interested in other peoples opinions that don’t agree with your own so you probably missed it earlier in the thread when I said -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s simply the case that some people are of the belief that they should respect their children’s privacy. I get where they’re coming from and I do the same myself, to a degree, as I always have done.

Those people who say anyone who doesn’t have children don’t know what it’s like to be a parent, are looking at it from the wrong angle. Unless one grew up without any authority figures in their lives to learn from, they will have parents or authority figures whom they will have learned from. Neither extreme of either the helicopter parent, or the absentee parent is particularly healthy for children’s development into adulthood.

Most people will be somewhere in the middle ground when it comes to raising children, and having been children once themselves and having experience of being children and of different styles of parenting to my own, I wouldn’t immediately discount someone’s opinions on raising children solely on the basis that I imagine because they don’t have children of their own they can’t know what they’re talking about.

One eyed Jack

Strumms wrote: »

I agree. To be honest... if I’m a parent of one of this kids friends and I found out I’d be having a word, a none to quiet a word with the parents who installed this..
I’m not happy about communications which my kid sends to a friend being intercepted and read by a third party, parent or otherwise... as a parent you are not going to sit with your ear to the door and listen to a conversation between Sean and David, what makes you think it’s ok to snoop on electronic private messages?

Genuine question... is it even actually legal in Ireland to do this? just had a very quick google search and nothing conclusive either way....but whatever about legal, it’s sure ain’t ethical...

It’s perfectly lawful for parents to monitor their children’s activities online and offline. They’re not monitoring your child’s activities, so your having a word with them for monitoring their own children’s activities isn’t likely to come to anything.

As for parents sitting with their ears to the door, I don’t know too many who go to that sort of effort, I prefer an open door policy myself that I don’t need to go listening outside the door or any of the rest of that nonsense. I wouldn’t be averse to monitoring my own child’s activities if I ever thought it were necessary, and if another parent came to have a word with me about monitoring their children’s communications with my child, I’d have no problem pointing out to them that I have every right to monitor my own children’s activities and who they are in communication with and who communicates with them, same right as any parent has, and whether or not they choose to exercise that right is entirely their own business.

Atlantic Dawn

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Under 12 possibly, if they are monitoring over that age the parents must have mental health issues, they should have stuck to having a dog or cat to control.

Dogs and cats generally are not the subject of online grooming an pedophiles, quite unlike kids and teenagers.

Cyber bullying is another one.

If you’re not monitoring your kids online activity you’re a moron.

ByTheSea2019

I only think this is ok if you tell them it's being done as a condition of having the phone. A bit like a sign saying CCTV operates in this area.

pickarooney

normally what happens is children growing up in any neighbourhood, village or town are known among the community because neighbours and families and members of that community are all known to each other, so they keep an eye out for each other and each other’s children

How common is this really? Growing up in a (small) city, hardly anyone in the neighborhood knows who anyone else is, who my kids are, where they live etc.

We have limits on our kids phones, in number of hours per day, what apps are allowed, what time they shut off at etc. They're fully aware of the rules and limitations and any attempt to get around them are met with immediate confiscation and a conversation about why it's happening.

We would never spy on their private conversations but there is a rule that if we have any reason to suspect bullying, harassment, grooming or the likes they have to show us their last few days of chat/message logs. Facebook, Instagram and all that **** are off limits.

For me the biggest danger is addiction to YouTube channels and minecraft

Strumms

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s perfectly lawful for parents to monitor their children’s activities online and offline. They’re not monitoring your child’s activities, so your having a word with them for monitoring their own children’s activities isn’t likely to come to anything.

As for parents sitting with their ears to the door, I don’t know too many who go to that sort of effort, I prefer an open door policy myself that I don’t need to go listening outside the door or any of the rest of that nonsense. I wouldn’t be averse to monitoring my own child’s activities if I ever thought it were necessary, and if another parent came to have a word with me about monitoring their children’s communications with my child, I’d have no problem pointing out to them that I have every right to monitor my own children’s activities and who they are in communication with and who communicates with them, same right as any parent has, and whether or not they choose to exercise that right is entirely their own business.

There isn’t the facility just to monitor your own child’s communications, there is the problem , because whomever is replying to them, their content is viewable too... that is not satisfactory. They have not given permission for their communications to be read by a third party...I’m betting their parents haven’t too.

One eyed Jack

pickarooney wrote: »

How common is this really? Growing up in a (small) city, hardly anyone in the neighborhood knows who anyone else is, who my kids are, where they live etc.

It’s still fairly common in my experience. I grew up in a small village, moved to a small town, then moved to a small city, and everyone in the neighbourhood knows who the “blow-ins” are

It’s still common enough that people get to know each other though being neighbours or being involved in community groups such as religious communities or sports or schools their children attend, or even though their custom in local businesses like shops where they would often be seen doing their shopping so their children when they’re hanging around shopping centres looking like they’re up to no good, the security guards and management will know who their parents are and will sometimes have a word if they think it’s necessary, or the parents themselves might say to security or management to send their children home if they see them on their own or hanging out with a particular crowd.

It’s even easier these days with constant mobile communication being a thing. I don’t need to set up any family settings or location reporting on my child’s mobile device because I can be fairly sure where he is to be found if I need to know where he is in any case. He knows it too :pac:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s perfectly lawful for parents to monitor their children’s activities online and offline. They’re not monitoring your child’s activities, so your having a word with them for monitoring their own children’s activities isn’t likely to come to anything.

It's a written private communication though. As far as I can tell, if the sender does not consent the message being viewed by a third party, said third party can not legally read it, unless they believe the child to be in direct harm.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2018/act/7/enacted/en/print.html
Section 32 seems to limit legal access to parents (have NOT read the full act though, so open to correction!)

(Also, a child is defined as being 16 or under, so the 17 year old definitely has a case)

One eyed Jack

Strumms wrote: »

There isn’t the facility just to monitor your own child’s communications, there is the problem , because whomever is replying to them, their content is viewable too... that is not satisfactory. They have not given permission for their communications to be read by a third party...I’m betting their parents haven’t too.

That IS monitoring their own children’s communications. They’re not monitoring anyone else’s communications. Of course the other parties communications with their children are viewable, and parents don’t need any other parties consent to view anyone’s communications with their own children. It’s something I’ve always made my own child aware of - that any communications he sends or anything he shares, he has no control over who else sees those communications. It’s unsurprisingly effective in making him think twice about how he communicates with other people and who he communicates with.

Car99

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Under 12 possibly, if they are monitoring over that age the parents must have mental health issues, they should have stuck to having a dog or cat to control.

Do you have kids? Do you think a 12 year old should have unregulated access to the internet and communication with other people of any age?

Strumms

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That IS monitoring their own children’s communications. They’re not monitoring anyone else’s communications. Of course the other parties communications with their children are viewable, and parents don’t need any other parties consent to view anyone’s communications with their own children. It’s something I’ve always made my own child aware of - that any communications he sends or anything he shares, he has no control over who else sees those communications. It’s unsurprisingly effective in making him think twice about how he communicates with other people and who he communicates with.

They are monitoring what is being sent by child A and child B. They can not obtain context of a conversation by looking up just one side of what’s said.

Most parents of child B I’m guessing wouldn’t be satisfied with that. I wouldn’t.

17 year old A could be speaking about their sister having a medical problem and worried about her, it’s meant for the eyes and mind of his friend, child B... all of a sudden a parent of child B is off gossiping outside the post office....

A private conversation is a private conversation.

One eyed Jack

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It's a written private communication though. As far as I can tell, if the sender does not consent the message being viewed by a third party, said third party can not legally read it, unless they believe the child to be in direct harm.

Anyone is mistaken if they imagine they should have an expectation of privacy in relation to their communications with a child, notwithstanding the fact that a child in many jurisdictions could never legally be held responsible for upholding such an agreement.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2018/act/7/enacted/en/print.html
Section 32 seems to limit legal access to parents (have NOT read the full act though, so open to correction!)

(Also, a child is defined as being 16 or under, so the 17 year old definitely has a case)

The DPA wouldn’t apply in circumstances between parents and their children though, because their parents aren’t data controllers for one thing. But apart from any concerns about any privacy or safety aspects, who the DPA does apply to are data controllers who maintain personal data relating to children. You’ll experience the more insidious side of this if you’re a parent that has ever tried to get Facebook for example to close your children’s numerous alias accounts where they’re posting personal information about themselves that could be used to identify them or their location or even if they are being bullied on social media by their peers. If I were a parent in those circumstances and someone chided me for looking at who was communicating with my child or what they were communicating, I’d think that person should take some of their own advice and mind their own business.

As for the 17 year old in the opening post, even if they were in Ireland (I’m not sure they are, or whether the OP is, given they were on a Zoom call to friends abroad), they wouldn’t have a case against their parents for a breach of any imagined expectation of privacy.

One eyed Jack

Strumms wrote: »

They are monitoring what is being sent by child A and child B. They can not obtain context of a conversation by looking up just one side of what’s said.

Most parents of child B I’m guessing wouldn’t be satisfied with that. I wouldn’t.

17 year old A could be speaking about their sister having a medical problem and worried about her, it’s meant for the eyes and mind of his friend, child B... all of a sudden a parent of child B is off gossiping outside the post office....

A private conversation is a private conversation.

That’s simply a courtesy in most cases, it’s certainly not the case with parents monitoring their own children’s communications, regardless of whether the other person in communication with the child or children has given their consent for their communications to be seen or read by an unintended party.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Anyone is mistaken if they imagine they should have an expectation of privacy in relation to their communications with a child, notwithstanding the fact that a child in many jurisdictions could never legally be held responsible for upholding such an agreement.

I'm talking about consent. If I send you a message and you show it to someone else that's one thing. But if someone else reads it even without you knowing about it, then it's invasion of privacy. Expectation doesn't justify or legalise it.

If you leave you house unlocked and someone breaks into it, expectation of not being broken into is not going to legalise the break-in.

The DPA wouldn’t apply in circumstances between parents and their children though...

But this is NOT between a parent and and their children - that's my point. It's between a parent and someone else's child.

Re the 17 year old - they'd have to consent. If they say no, the parents can't legally interfere. It's a bad idea because the 17 year old can simply buy or borrow a second phone. Doesn't even have to be expensive.

Ubbquittious

No. I dont believe in spying on people. I believe the tendency to spy as in this sort of stuff and CCTV in schools is more harmful than whatever potential boogeyman they are trying to ward off with it. Its spawning a generation of children who are used to an Orwellian society.

Besides some day you won't be there to watch over them. Better to get them used to looking after themselves

GarIT

Ubbquittious wrote: »

No. I dont believe in spying on people. I believe the tendency to spy as in this sort of stuff and CCTV in schools is more harmful than whatever potential boogeyman they are trying to ward off with it. Its spawning a generation of children who are used to an Orwellian society.

Besides some day you won't be there to watch over them. Better to get them used to looking after themselves

I don't believe children as the same as "people" I wouldn't let them use alcohol either and alcohol is much safer than some parts of the internet too.

tscul32

15 and 13 year olds here. The deal when getting a phone was that at any time we could ask to look and it had to be handed over unlocked immediately. Tbh neither is that in to social media. One isn't much of a mixer so he's not bothered and the other is suspicious of putting too much on the internet, bit of a conspiracy theorist. We've drilled the dangers into them for years. They've always happily handed over the phone, never looked nervous.
Wouldn't go through it without letting them know though, and always told them I wouldn't dig unless I had a good reason. They accepted that.
Snooping "just because" is something I wouldn't feel right about. I even felt guilty opening the 8 year old's Santa letter to see what he'd asked for! Just in case I didn't approve and had to contact Santa myself.