Another full lockdown looming? - mod warning in OP

notwhoyouthink

faceman wrote: »

You’re not in the position many are in and can’t possibly understand the mental toll it has taken on so many people. At what point does the mental well-being of a person supersede locking down a disease that didn’t reach plague levels during vaccine trials?



Summer 2020 called and says hi


No study in Ireland or abroad has shown that non essential retail contributes to the spread of the virus. While a full lockdown wa a justified in March when we knew very little, we now have a lot of data to hand to tells a different story. I for one do not want decisions being made in the absence of evidence



That’s fine if you live in a country like the US or a self sufficient country with limited need for international trade and travel.

We know now from numerous studies that air travel is less risk than other sectors and travel bans does not eliminate risk. It delays spread by a few weeks and increase the risk of community transmission as people become more secretive with their movements.

Additionally, Ireland is a small island that is part of a union. Not everyone lives and works in the same country. People have life, love and work commitments in other countries. WHO and ECDC have guidelines and recommendations for international travel. Check out “reopen EU” if you haven’t already.

Even the EU and WHO have commented on the U.K. travel ban which as we have seen and as expected, has not stopped the spread of the new strain.

The travel argument is a dead one at this stage.



We went hard and severe from March to June. Look at us now.

That level of public support will never be recreated. People are no longer afraid, far beyond jaded and realising that the vast vast majority of people who do catch won’t suffer any major impact. Not saying that they’re right, I’m pointing out a hard reality.

1. As I stated at the outset I have great sympathy for these people; it is a horrendous situation for them and their families. I have less sympathy for some sector employers, however, who have taken advantage of the public over many years.

2. The mental toll is no limited to workers displaced by the pandemic. Have you considered people in nursing homes or in hospitals starved of relationships and visits? Is it okay that we keep the tills ringing, but lock the vulnerbale up? Would that be okay?

3. The disease is viral, meaning it multiples rapidly. How many cases did we have 10 days ago? How many today? How many next week? So your policy would be to let it reach higher levels before we do something? How do you anticipate our healthcare system would cope? Who gets a ventillator and who doesn't?

notwhoyouthink

faceman wrote: »

Fook this guy and his team

So basically why publish data on outbreaks if the contact tracing only goes back 48 hours? He basically saying the report, prepared by his team, isn’t worth a crap. Competency issue #1

Furthermore, this means they have no evidence in Ireland that schools are in fact safe. Competency issue #2

We are now 10 months in to this. Other countries are carrying out more in-depth contact tracing. Are we still using 48 hours as the benchmark? Competency issue #3

Maybe they’ll use the excuse that international evidence tells us the risks. This statement renders their report a failure. Schools are *only* considered safe in environments where class size is reduced. Spain have one of the best records with schools. They reduced average class size to the low teens. Ireland has not. #competency issue #4

NPHET’s predictions have not always come to light. In fact their predictions for growth have been wrong since the start. In addition they aren’t being fully transparent with the data. Where is the data separated to show cases acquired in hospitals? Where is the data to show hospital occupation versus last year? Where is the hospital data to show people who were already in hospital prior to acquiring covid? In short, we have a data transparency issue. Competency issue #5

NPHET is headed up by someone who was at the centre of the biggest government and health scandal this century. In addition, the unfortunate circumstances in his personal life had removed him from his position for some time. There’s a massive question mark over his credibility and ability to carry out his role. #Competency issue #6

No alternate suggestions to hard lockdowns are being examined or proposed. #Competency issue #7

Two questions for you?

1. Are you a medical doctor?

2. If yes, have you received specialist training in public health?

If your anyswer to either question is NO, then you have no credibility to question the credibility of public health EXPERTS

You lack the knowledge, experience, and expertise to question credibility. And I think your post is irresponsible.

notwhoyouthink

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1342871268790571010

weldoninhio

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

1. As I stated at the outset I have great sympathy for these people; it is a horrendous situation for them and their families. I have less sympathy for some sector employers, however, who have taken advantage of the public over many years.

2. The mental toll is no limited to workers displaced by the pandemic. Have you considered people in nursing homes or in hospitals starved of relationships and visits? Is it okay that we keep the tills ringing, but lock the vulnerbale up? Would that be okay?

3. The disease is viral, meaning it multiples rapidly. How many cases did we have 10 days ago? How many today? How many next week? So your policy would be to let it reach higher levels before we do something? How do you anticipate our healthcare system would cope? Who gets a ventillator and who doesn't?

2. A vaccine has been created. Impose harsh lockdown on those who are at risk until vaccinated. Might sound harsh, but let’s not forget that the vaccine and the ridiculous restrictions all have to be paid for. The payment will come from taxes. Pubs contribute €4.5bn in taxes yearly.

3. Cases mean nothing. We could have 1000 cases today, if only 5 need hospitalisation it’s a tiny issue. Hospitalisations and ICU numbers should be metrics used. Both have been stable since “wave 2”.

Sonic the Shaghog

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Staff will say they won’t tell people to put one on but then will lament their workplace being closed.

Except the bloody trouble is if said staff say anything to a non mask wearer their boss turns on them after a complaint is made as they are afraid of upsetting anyone that might leave a few quid at the counter, I've seen it normal grocery shops too

faceman

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

1. As I stated at the outset I have great sympathy for these people; it is a horrendous situation for them and their families. I have less sympathy for some sector employers, however, who have taken advantage of the public over many years.

2. The mental toll is no limited to workers displaced by the pandemic. Have you considered people in nursing homes or in hospitals starved of relationships and visits? Is it okay that we keep the tills ringing, but lock the vulnerbale up? Would that be okay?

3. The disease is viral, meaning it multiples rapidly. How many cases did we have 10 days ago? How many today? How many next week? So your policy would be to let it reach higher levels before we do something? How do you anticipate our healthcare system would cope? Who gets a ventillator and who doesn't?

You’re making a lot of assumptions about me just because you have a different perspective to me....

B.A._Baracus

GT89 wrote: »

Maybe if businesses starting opening and people disobeyed the government restrictions we could all live normally

Disobeying restrictions and guidelines is why we have over a thousand cases today.

faceman

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

Two questions for you?

1. Are you a medical doctor?

2. If yes, have you received specialist training in public health?

If your anyswer to either question is NO, then you have no credibility to question the credibility of public health EXPERTS

You lack the knowledge, experience, and expertise to question credibility. And I think your post is irresponsible.

Would you say that to people like Vicky Phelan or Patricia Carrick?

You’re setting out a very dangerous position with what you’re saying

end of the road

VeVeX wrote: »

Your thoughts would be absolutely valid if Covid19 was Ebola.

why ebola?
is it because ebola spreads highly and quickly and kills lots of people?
so does covid 19 if not controlled.

faceman

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Disobeying restrictions and guidelines is why we have over a thousand cases today.

How do you know that? Our contact tracing efforts only go back 48 hours

end of the road

corcaigh07 wrote: »

Nothing to stop you taking your own precautions

no, but it's pointless if he is the only one doing it or only a minority do it.
thankfully we are not in that situation hence we haven't become a basket case.

notwhoyouthink

faceman wrote: »

Would you say that to people like Vicky Phelan or Patricia Carrick?

You’re setting out a very dangerous position with what you’re saying

Dangerous, how?

B.A._Baracus

faceman wrote: »

How do you know that? Our contact tracing efforts only go back 48 hours

Because I have something between my ears.
If people did what they were told to (social distance, wear mask, wash hands, isolate etc) Corona cases would not be as high.

It's quite simply really.

weldoninhio

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

Dangerous, how?

The leader is great, the leader is good.

Nana, nana, nana, nana Leader!!

faceman

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

Dangerous, how?

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth”
- Albert Einstein

faceman

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Because I have something between my ears.
If people did what they were told to (social distance, wear mask, wash hands, isolate etc) Corona cases would not be as high.

It's quite simply really.

Spain called and said “hold my beer”

GT89

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except those of us who are classed as high or very high risk, who instead of being able to live normally, would be put at a much greater risk of contracting Covid by the level of community transmission that would cause.

So, you either have a very narrow view of "all living normally", or you are only considering young people in good health and with no underlying conditions.

If you're high risk, have an irrational fear of catching the virus or both then you can stay home and let the rest of us live our lives normally. Why is it that difficult?

Risteard81

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

Third, it has to be stressed this is a once-in-a-lifetime event.

It really isn't though. New diseases come about all the time.

If we are going to impose totalitarian restrictions every time that happens then we will never be free from totalitarian restrictions. The fact is that they are not justified, were never justified and cannot ever be justified.

This is why I demand that those responsible for them be prosecuted to the extremities of the law and beyond. They are the enemy of the Irish People and all of the Peoples of the world.

GT89

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Disobeying restrictions and guidelines is why we have over a thousand cases today.

Stop testing and you wouldn't have over a thousand cases

Risteard81

faceman wrote: »

While a full lockdown wa a justified in March when we knew very little

It was never justified and could not ever be justified.

pjohnson

Risteard81 wrote: »

It was never justified and could not ever be justified.

Well not for those ignoring any idea of reality.

peasant

I've posted this less than a week ago on the main covid thread, the scientist's publication is from the 18th..since then two new and potentially pretty scary variants have been discovered ...it's about time we eradicate this virus from Europe properly:


Prominent (eminent) European scientists are calling for a pan-european co-ordinated response:


Calling for Pan-European commitment for rapid and sustained reduction in SARS-CoV-2 infections

Across Europe, the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic is causing excess deaths, placing a burden on societies and health systems, and harming the economy. Yet, European governments still have to develop a common vision to guide the management of the pandemic. Overwhelming evidence shows that not only public health, but also society and the economy benefit greatly from low COVID-19 case numbers. Vaccines will help control the virus, but not until late 2021. If we do not act now, further waves of infection are to be expected, with consequential further damage to health, society, jobs and businesses. Given open borders within Europe, a single country alone cannot keep the number of COVID-19 cases low; thus joint action and common goals among countries are essential. We, therefore, call for a strong, coordinated European response and clearly defined medium- and long-term goals.

https://www.containcovid-pan.eu/

Good call, IMO and about time.

Enough of those localised piecemeal attempts. Few months of the same restrictions everywhere, then vaccinate and get it over with.

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

If you're high risk, have an irrational fear of catching the virus or both then you can stay home and let the rest of us live our lives normally. Why is it that difficult?

Seriously, do you actually need to ask why it is that difficult?

Because even though someone may be high risk, there is still a need to interact outside their homes.

Not everyone has the type of work that can be done from home, (or employers that will allow it). They may have kids they need to take to school, or elderly parents they need to take care of. Then there are basic needs like shopping for groceries (not everywhere can get deliveries). That's just for starters.

Its not as simple as locking up the vulnerable at home behind closed doors, and if you truly believe it is, then you really haven't thought this through.

B.A._Baracus

faceman wrote: »

Spain called and said “hold my beer”

Meaning?
You asked a stupid question and got an answer.

B.A._Baracus

GT89 wrote: »

Stop testing and you wouldn't have over a thousand cases

Stop testing?

UDAWINNER

GT89 wrote: »

If you're high risk, have an irrational fear of catching the virus or both then you can stay home and let the rest of us live our lives normally. Why is it that difficult?

great response, thinking about yourself, I take it you've no one high risk close to you. Some think about others.

Risteard81

UDAWINNER wrote: »

great response, thinking about yourself, I take it you've no one high risk close to you. Some think about others.

How are you thinking about others demanding that everyone face unlawful restrictions on their lives? You are the most selfish type of person there is. It is utterly abhorrent.

Piehead

Schools need to stay closed until Easter at the earliest

UDAWINNER

notwhoyouthink wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1342871268790571010

hope all those breaking the guidelines are happy, you know those think that the virus won't effect them
As long as we have high case numbers, we'll be further in lockdown while some can fcuk back abroad like Spain or the UK and the whinge when theu're there how Ireland is in lockdown when some of them dimwits caused it.

weldoninhio

UDAWINNER wrote: »

hope all those breaking the guidelines are happy, you know those think that the virus won't effect them
As long as we have have high case numbers, we'll be further in lockdown whil some can fcuk back abroad like Spain or UK and the whinge when their ther how Ireland is in lockdown when some of them dimwits caused it.

We don’t have high case numbers though.