Discovery 3x11 - "Su'Kal" ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

bilbot79

AllForIt wrote: »

I think that was the best episode of the series so far and rather good, and I find myself in shock saying that. Or maybe the least worst episode ever. No, I did actually enjoy that episode maybe just because it kept my attention all the way though which would be a first for S3.

I thought both Tilly's scene during the stand off and Burnham's interaction with the Kelpien was rather good. Or maybe I have just lowered my standards. I think that's the first time they've gone on an away mission that it has grabbed my attention in the way Star Trek of old used to. Apart from the early scene with Tilly and Burnham it's the first time Burnham wasn't really annoying.

This series is so frustrating. The odd time I like it but most of the time I don't.

No. No.

Burnham was annoying. She was.

kowloon

Dogg Munde wrote: »

Neither is first officer. :pac:

Ensign then, which makes feck all sense having her in charge of the ship when there are more experienced crew left, right and centre.
But who knows who any of them are because this series is doing a terrible job of introducing other members of the crew. The first season of any other Trek show would have all the regulars seem like regulars and not extras.

GreeBo

kowloon wrote: »

Ensign then, which makes feck all sense having her in charge of the ship when there are more experienced crew left, right and centre.
But who knows who any of them are because this series is doing a terrible job of introducing other members of the crew. The first season of any other Trek show would have all the regulars seem like regulars and not extras.

Maybe Saru doesn't know their names either and it was just easier and less socially awkward to pick Tilly?

liamtech

i dont wanna become the stereotypical 'Angry Fan', who just continually posts vile opinions on it

That said, again im still kinda stunned by how bad this season is

There is NO re-watchability in most episodes (finding starfleet i did rewatch but thats it)
There is no real engaging plot
There are no characters who i care about, beyond an acknowledgement that Doug Jones is cool

The Plot is so contrived. Even if i had done the usual thing, and come up with theories on the burn, look where it ends up?

And why is this kid still alive? Im as decent/enlightened a trekkie as you will find

But 'Kid' gets upset/stressed, and using special (McGuffin) abilities, destroys large chunks of galactic civilization? And they are worried about him? Very simple solution here folks - The needs of the many, etc etc - Sukal look at that!!! What? SNAP

End

Rawr

It's a bit of a mix, but the episode had some pretty good Trek elements, and for what was essentially a holodeck episode, they did a very good job. I wonder what set they borrowed this dream-sequence from? I say this because they hadn't bothered showing the interior of the Kelpian ship and I was curious to see the interior of a Starfleet / Federation vessel of the time...but we got nothing. I wonder if they got creative with the resources they had and made this nightmare holo-program out of stuff available at the studio, since I still feel that they overloaded the budget. Might also explain why we actually get Saru's actor without his makeup.

Seeing him without makeup also makes me fear that this is indeed Saru's end. The actor might have wanted at least one episode with his actual face, and they have already set up the precedent of crew members leaving when they encounter their own race. They toned down Michael in this one too, which helped at lot...but if she becomes Captain...I'm done. She's not Starfleet material, she's not captain material and if the producers think that passionate "loud-whispering" speeches at people is the same as captaining a starship, then I'll be unable to watch. Saru was an anchor that kept me watching, cast him off and you lose me as well.

FO Tilly is *alright* but I was disappointed with her banter with Oisyraa. Instead of owning the Conn and shooting Oisyraa down, she started back-talking her taunts and trying to throw them back at her. Didn't really feel like a good moment of Captaincy. Should have also withdrawn Discovery as soon as they knew a Chain vessel was approaching. Very stupid move which I don't understand beyond Tilly being crap at the job.

The ending cliffhanger does make me want to watch how this plays out. The "Ship under seige" plot is something we sometimes get in Trek and it's often good. I wonder how Discovery will do it....and can they manage it without Michael using her God-Mode cheat?

liamtech

liamtech wrote: »

And they are worried about him? Very simple solution here folks - The needs of the many, etc etc - Sukal look at that!!! What? SNAP

End

Unfortunately not. There'd be a scene where they all cried. They'd then do a toast thing where they would reminisce about him and mourn his passing, although they only knew him for an hour. The writers never miss this opportunity. It's their go to



'So, we done?'
'Er, we're 3 minutes short'
'Who's died this episode?' All writers look to each other and in unison...
'MOURNING SCENE!'

Rawr

Deleted User wrote: »

Unfortunately not. There'd be a scene where they all cried. They'd then do a toast thing where they would reminisce about him and mourn his passing, although they only knew him for an hour. The writers never miss this opportunity. It's their go to



'So, we done?'
'Er, we're 3 minutes short'
'Who's died this episode?' All writers look to each other and in unison...
'MOURNING SCENE!'

Saru: (Toasting) I remember when I first met Sukal...

Tilly: Sir....that was like....6 hours ago....

Saru: ....and that's why I remember....

Johnny Storm

bilbot79 wrote: »

... Kathryn Janeway was a great leader.

ah, here

liamtech

bilbot79 wrote: »

Kathryn Janeway was a great leader.

Johnny Storm wrote: »

ah, here

Say what you want about Janeway, she would have sorted this by now

Arrives in 31st century, straight to earth
Earth Leader: We are no longer in the federation
[25 minutes later]
Earth Leader: We pledge ourselves to Janway (grunt from behind), i mean, the Federation

Arrives at Starfleet Command
Admiral: We have no way to verify your story, so we cannot discuss classified Material
Janeway: Can i speak to you alone for a moment
[15 minutes later Admiral reappears bruised battered and concust]
Admiral: Id like to announce that i have handed over command of the Galaxy, i mean, starfleet, to Supreme Chancellor and Fleet Admiral Janway

Encounters the Orions
Orion Leader: Pah, Starfleet are no match for us!
Orion Lackey: Commander theres an incoming private communication for you, from Starfleet
[10 minutes later]
Orion Leader: Ok guys iv been thinking of a change of Scenery, lets head to the Andromeda Galaxy, Maximum Slipstream
Orion Lackey:But commander what about..
Orion Leader: MAXIMUM SPEED PUT AS MUCH DISTANCE AS YOU CAN BETWEEN US AND THIS GALAXY, NOW, BEFORE SHE GETS HERE

duffman13

Saru destroyed as a character in one episode is pretty impressive, its been coming though. I thought captains no longer go on away missions after the TOS. The admiral allowing the ensign to be in command of the single most valuable piece of tech in the galaxy is phenomenal work.

You'd wonder why starfleet didn't actually just put a senior officer on board anyway given how valuable the ship is

silverharp

youtube threw this up for me to see a few days ago, my god the contrast is something else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMKtKNZw4Bo

seamus

bilbot79 wrote: »

They are clearly setting Saru up to fail and be usurped by Burnham. This is no way to treat a Star Trek Captain and the writers should be shot

Micheal Burnham is a terrible character and I may be forced to stop watching when she overtakes Saru

Aw, man, don't be right.

Su'kal won't be able to leave the planet without dying, so Saru will stay behind to help him and teach him to be a Kelpian.

Meanwhile Osira will devastate Starfleet, destroy HQ and a number of ships before the Disco crew outwit her and destroy her with the help of the Vulcan fleet.

The Admiral dead, Saru staying behind and Starfleet in disarray, Burnham will take over as Captain and de facto leader of Starfleet with Tilly as XO, and they will retreat to regroup and rebuild the Federation using Vulcan as their base.

Please don't be right...

PhiloCypher

Rawr wrote: »

It's a bit of a mix, but the episode had some pretty good Trek elements, and for what was essentially a holodeck episode, they did a very good job. I wonder what set they borrowed this dream-sequence from? I say this because they hadn't bothered showing the interior of the Kelpian ship and I was curious to see the interior of a Starfleet / Federation vessel of the time...but we got nothing. I wonder if they got creative with the resources they had and made this nightmare holo-program out of stuff available at the studio, since I still feel that they overloaded the budget. Might also explain why we actually get Saru's actor without his makeup.

Seeing him without makeup also makes me fear that this is indeed Saru's end. The actor might have wanted at least one episode with his actual face, and they have already set up the precedent of crew members leaving when they encounter their own race. They toned down Michael in this one too, which helped at lot...but if she becomes Captain...I'm done. She's not Starfleet material, she's not captain material and if the producers think that passionate "loud-whispering" speeches at people is the same as captaining a starship, then I'll be unable to watch. Saru was an anchor that kept me watching, cast him off and you lose me as well.

FO Tilly is *alright* but I was disappointed with her banter with Oisyraa. Instead of owning the Conn and shooting Oisyraa down, she started back-talking her taunts and trying to throw them back at her. Didn't really feel like a good moment of Captaincy. Should have also withdrawn Discovery as soon as they knew a Chain vessel was approaching. Very stupid move which I don't understand beyond Tilly being crap at the job.

The ending cliffhanger does make me want to watch how this plays out. The "Ship under seige" plot is something we sometimes get in Trek and it's often good. I wonder how Discovery will do it....and can they manage it without Michael using her God-Mode cheat?

Aside from the over emphasis on Burnham at the expense of every other character, My biggest beef with this season is that they've done nothing to establish the status quo for the Alpha/Beta Quadrant other then establish 3 of the 4 founding members of the federation are no longer members. All we needed was a 2 minute place setting scene where the Admiral brings them and us up to speed on the state of play of the main players in the Quadrant. Instead he sends them out blind to blunder into first contacts(for them) with no idea of the galactic context.

Now in theory I can understand that after such a big reset as sending them so far into the future ,they might be tempted to shroud the new status quo in mystery. Give the show a New Frontier feel not seen since TOS, where we didn't know whats around the corner, and in the hands of better writers it could work. But in practice its incredibly frustrating, as through necessity to keep us in the dark ,they must keep the characters in the dark to let them discover as they go.

Banana Republic 1

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Aside from the over emphasis on Burnham at the expense of every other character, My biggest beef with this season is that they've done nothing to establish the status quo for the Alpha/Beta Quadrant other then establish 3 of the 4 founding members of the federation are no longer members. All we needed was a 2 minute place setting scene where the Admiral brings them and us up to speed on the state of play of the main players in the Quadrant. Instead he sends them out blind to blunder into first contacts(for them) with no idea of the galactic context.

Now in theory I can understand that after such a big reset as sending them so far into the future ,they might be tempted to shroud the new status quo in mystery. Give the show a New Frontier feel not seen since TOS, where we didn't know whats around the corner, and in the hands of better writers it could work. But in practice its incredibly frustrating, as through necessity to keep us in the dark ,they must keep the characters in the dark to let them discover as they go.

You’re giving the writers credit for deliberately steering the plot. The reality is however their just inept.

It should be fun when they go back to Ni'Var to tell them the reason The Burn happened, and the entire galaxy was brought to its knees, was because a Kelpien baby got sad and scared.

bilbot79

seamus wrote: »

Aw, man, don't be right.

Su'kal won't be able to leave the planet without dying, so Saru will stay behind to help him and teach him to be a Kelpian.

Meanwhile Osira will devastate Starfleet, destroy HQ and a number of ships before the Disco crew outwit her and destroy her with the help of the Vulcan fleet.

The Admiral dead, Saru staying behind and Starfleet in disarray, Burnham will take over as Captain and de facto leader of Starfleet with Tilly as XO, and they will retreat to regroup and rebuild the Federation using Vulcan as their base.

Please don't be right...

Your timeline is very plausible but would still involve assassinating Saru's character to make the audience happy to leave him behind. Muck.

Can you imagine how much whispering there will be in your version? Please don't be right!

bilbot79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It should be fun when they go back to Ni'Var to tell them the reason The Burn happened, and the entire galaxy was brought to its knees, was because a Kelpien baby got sad and scared.

Yes it seems crazy so I scoured the internet to see where they got the inspiration for Su'Kal

jackboy

silverharp wrote: »

youtube threw this up for me to see a few days ago, my god the contrast is something else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMKtKNZw4Bo

Characters with a bit of steel and resilience, just how you would imagine those trusted and suited to long term space flight. Compared to the emotional wrecks running Discovery.

Smacruairi

I hated pretty much everything about that episode.

1. The destruction of Saru - has always shown steely determination, now becomes a quivering nostalgic wreck at a hologram.

2. Culber volunteering to also stay on the planet, as a medical officer surely there would have been more back and forth.

3. Michael said she was unhappy with Saru as captain. Then magically finds a way to find him unsuitable for the role while on the planet. What did Tilly say about protection?

4. Orion girl is a C list villain, only actually succeeding because you don't have an adult in charge. Would sisko, Picard etc get into an insult match in that manner? Jane way would have made her feel tiny.

5. The gray character is clearly nonsense. The writers wanted a trans character. I actually thought the trill idea was genius for the "they" idea. But now they're stuck trying to figure out how to deal with them, and it actually isolates the character more. They're actually othering the character more.

6. Book and Michael giving the nod of approval after every order - why does anyone need your approval?

7. Michael needs to piss off, stat. Everyone knows why.

Also why spend a fortune on that gorgeous cg effect of those floating platforms.. When the script is shot. That was a real microcosm there - style over substance.

bilbot79

Smacruairi wrote: »

I hated pretty much everything about that episode.

1. The destruction of Saru - has always shown steely determination, now becomes a quivering nostalgic wreck at a hologram.

2. Culber volunteering to also stay on the planet, as a medical officer surely there would have been more back and forth.

3. Michael said she was unhappy with Saru as captain. Then magically finds a way to find him unsuitable for the role while on the planet. What did Tilly say about protection?

4. Orion girl is a C list villain, only actually succeeding because you don't have an adult in charge. Would sisko, Picard etc get into an insult match in that manner? Jane way would have made her feel tiny.

5. The gray character is clearly nonsense. The writers wanted a trans character. I actually thought the trill idea was genius for the "they" idea. But now they're stuck trying to figure out how to deal with them, and it actually isolates the character more. They're actually othering the character more.

6. Book and Michael giving the nod of approval after every order - why does anyone need your approval?

7. Michael needs to piss off, stat. Everyone knows why.

Also why spend a fortune on that gorgeous cg effect of those floating platforms.. When the script is shot. That was a real microcosm there - style over substance.

Agree with all of the above. To add to point 6 I always get taken out of the zone by SMGs bad acting whenever herself and Book interact. She immediately stops whispering and starts talking, dare I say it....black. Which would be fine if it weren't completely out of character.

I find that a lot with her. You'll see her acting as 3 to 4 different people per episode and not as one person with 3-4 different interactions

Banana Republic 1

Smacruairi wrote: »

I hated pretty much everything about that episode.

1. The destruction of Saru - has always shown steely determination, now becomes a quivering nostalgic wreck at a hologram.

2. Culber volunteering to also stay on the planet, as a medical officer surely there would have been more back and forth.

3. Michael said she was unhappy with Saru as captain. Then magically finds a way to find him unsuitable for the role while on the planet. What did Tilly say about protection?

4. Orion girl is a C list villain, only actually succeeding because you don't have an adult in charge. Would sisko, Picard etc get into an insult match in that manner? Jane way would have made her feel tiny.

5. The gray character is clearly nonsense. The writers wanted a trans character. I actually thought the trill idea was genius for the "they" idea. But now they're stuck trying to figure out how to deal with them, and it actually isolates the character more. They're actually othering the character more.

6. Book and Michael giving the nod of approval after every order - why does anyone need your approval?

7. Michael needs to piss off, stat. Everyone knows why.

Also why spend a fortune on that gorgeous cg effect of those floating platforms.. When the script is shot. That was a real microcosm there - style over substance.

He could of just started blinking at the holograms.

Rawr

Smacruairi wrote: »

I hated pretty much everything about that episode.

5. The gray character is clearly nonsense. The writers wanted a trans character. I actually thought the trill idea was genius for the "they" idea. But now they're stuck trying to figure out how to deal with them, and it actually isolates the character more. They're actually othering the character more.

I've actually found myself fast-forwarding through these sections almost automatically now. It's usually up to 2-3 minutes of Greg and Adria just doating over each other with nothing actually happening in terms of character development or plot progression. It's just dead space in the middle of the episode that I kind of *know* I can skip over without penalty in the story.

I'm going to get stung one of these days when they throw a major plot-point into those scenes, but they are so boring I don't mind taking the risk.

flazio

Smacruairi wrote: »

4. Orion girl is a C list villain, only actually succeeding because you don't have an adult in charge. Would sisko, Picard etc get into an insult match in that manner? Jane way would have made her feel tiny.

The ironic thing about that is, the actor playing Osyraa, Janet Kidder. is actually 48, but is playing this role more like a spoilt brat teenager.

bilbot79

flazio wrote: »

The ironic thing about that is, the actor playing Osyraa, Janet Kidder. is actually 48, but is playing this role more like a spoilt brat teenager.

I thought she looked familiar. Shes Lois Lane's niece..

bilbot79

bilbot79 wrote: »

I thought she looked familiar. Shes Lois Lane's niece..

Bruce Banner is her dad.

flazio

Deleted User wrote: »

Bruce Banner is her dad.

I think this was a pathetic attempt at tongue in cheek. Her dad's name is John Kidder and has not had any acting roles as Bruce David Banner.

flazio

flazio wrote: »

I think this was a pathetic attempt at tongue in cheek.

Er, sorry?

flazio

Deleted User wrote: »

Er, sorry?

Fair enough, I'll give you a chance to defend yourself. Please provide a source that says John Kidder, the father of Osyraa actor Janet Kidder and the brother of the late Margot Kidder played Bruce Banner in any media as you have claimed.

flazio

flazio wrote: »

Fair enough, I'll give you a chance to defend yourself. Please provide a source that says John Kidder, the father of Osyraa actor Janet Kidder and the brother of the late Margot Kidder played Bruce Banner in any media as you have claimed.

Happy Christmas, flazio. And I checked, to be sure. It's still technically Christmas.

RebelButtMunch

flazio wrote: »

Fair enough, I'll give you a chance to defend yourself. Please provide a source that says John Kidder, the father of Osyraa actor Janet Kidder and the brother of the late Margot Kidder played Bruce Banner in any media as you have claimed.

Hulk

~Rebel~

flazio wrote: »

Fair enough, I'll give you a chance to defend yourself. Please provide a source that says John Kidder, the father of Osyraa actor Janet Kidder and the brother of the late Margot Kidder played Bruce Banner in any media as you have claimed.

The fuck?

Lois Lane (Margot Kidder) is her aunt - good little piece of trivia.
Bruce Banner’s her dad, Peter Parker’s her nephew, Diana Prince is her second cousin once removed. Jokes.

Your comments are nuts, and needlessly rude.

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

The fuck? It was clearly a joke.

Lois Lane (Margot Kidder) is her aunt - good little piece of trivia.
Bruce Banner’s her dad, Peter Parker’s her nephew, Diana Prince is her second cousin once removed.

Your comments above are both ridiculous, and needlessly rude.

You know the saying... when you have to explain a joke

AllForIt

jackboy wrote: »

Characters with a bit of steel and resilience, just how you would imagine those trusted and suited to long term space flight. Compared to the emotional wrecks running Discovery.

I think the 'emotional wreck' thing in disco is where the show has completely lost me. As I said before the idea that you'd have ppl who are emotionally weak signing up for active duty is just so absurd. And they did it as part of it's 'diversity' policy, so that weak people would feel 'represented'. How cringe is that.

jackboy

AllForIt wrote: »

I think the 'emotional wreck' thing in disco is where the show has completely lost me. As I said before the idea that you'd have ppl who are emotionally weak signing up for active duty is just so absurd. And they did it as part of it's 'diversity' policy, so that weak people would feel 'represented'. How cringe is that.

Even worse than that. They are representing the ‘diverse’ people as weak and unable to manage their emotions. I’m not sure how the diverse groups included in the show are not terribly insulted by the stereotypical representation.

AllForIt

AllForIt wrote: »

I think the 'emotional wreck' thing in disco is where the show has completely lost me. As I said before the idea that you'd have ppl who are emotionally weak signing up for active duty is just so absurd. And they did it as part of it's 'diversity' policy, so that weak people would feel 'represented'. How cringe is that.

'Yes Neil, that was quite a good speech as you stepped off, but I think we were missing a smidge of emotion. As you blast off from the moon can you give us a few hefty sobs?'

AllForIt

jackboy wrote: »

Even worse than that. They are representing the ‘diverse’ people as weak and unable to manage their emotions. I’m not sure how the diverse groups included in the show are not terribly insulted by the stereotypical representation.

Personally I am insulted.



edit: okay full disclosure, Colbert's gay accent embarrasses me. I don't talk with that kind of hissy accent that your more likely to come across from someone who lives socially on the downtown Manhattan's gay circuit. In any case regional accents of any variety aren't appropriate for a show like ST. Could you imagine if you had a proper farmer bogger accent on ST for the sake of diversity. It would just be laughable.

AllForIt

Deleted User wrote: »

'Yes Neil, that was quite a good speech as you stepped off, but I think we were missing a smidge of emotion. As you blast off from the moon can you give us a few hefty sobs?'

lol

One small weep for mankind

silverharp

In Space everyone can hear you cry

TheIrishGrover

Blah blah blah blah. Diversity is bad. Blah blah blah blah.

I thought the episode was actually OK. Without being great. Very derivative of many Trek episodes over the last few series.

It was good to see Doug Jones without his makeup and I actually liked Tilly's scenes. Effects were good. However the degrading Holodeck-type thing has been done to death in Sci-Fi in general.

I did like Burnham pretending to be a hologram. If only so her character could pretend to NOT be so miserable and earnest.

The kid and their boyfriend storyline better start paying off soon though. I like the kid as a character and thought they were a good addition but they need to something more with them other than have them pine over their boyfriend.

That Orion baddie is just....... just the worst. Someone called her C-list baddie? That's generous. Really REALLY one-note and uninteresting. God she is so bad and boring.

I don't think they destroyed Saru. You know he's going to have to do the right thing and kill the Kelpian eventually in order to stop another burn...... So, there ya go, Discovery fixed Warp Drive and restored The Federation in a 2-parter (Not even a cliff-hanger like I thought).

When they kill the Kelpian they will have all the dilithium they need and they will find a way to contact Star Fleet. There will be a bit of a battle interspersed with schennanigans onboard Discovery where Book and/or Tilly will die. They will figure out some way of freeing the ship.

Again, I really liked Season 1 & 2. My problem, as always, is their laser-focus on Burnham to the detriment of other, more interesting or engaging characters. There isn't a single character I actually dislike in the show. But after 3 seasons, apart from Stamets and the Doc, we have seen VERY little focus on them. Even Tilly. For all her career advancement, she still hero-worships Burnham and everything she has done/accomplished is because of her. Even her promotion: "I'm promoting you because you are not Burnham".
I said I like all the characters. I even like Burnham. It's just the amount of time she gets.


Edit:

AllForIt wrote: »

......... In any case regional accents of any variety aren't appropriate for a show like ST. Could you imagine if you had a proper farmer bogger accent on ST for the sake of diversity. It would just be laughable.

I actually love they way they handle accents on The Expanse. The Belter accents especially. They (Trek in general) could have done that more. Saru does have a slight intonation but that may be Jones himself as Saru does sound similar to Abe Sapien in Hellboy 2 (Not just the voice of course but his...... what.... vocal mannerisms?)

Johnny Storm

@TheIrishGrover ^
Well done for maintaining a positive attitude!
Hopefully the show will improve in future

Was it just the Dilitihum in active warp drive or dilitihum in general. If the former why the shortage and if the latter why didn't the tantrum child's planet go kaboom?

GSPfan

This had some elements I really liked. But it was wrapped up in a badly acted overly emotional mess. They are forcing these characters into stupid situations.

So the burn was the emotional reaction to the death of his mother wasn’t it? That’s why he doesn’t want to think back before being in the holodeck.

Amazing to think that one Kelpian was the cause of millions/billions of deaths. If time travel is possible then that kid should be killed at birth.

This show is all kinds of crap.

GSPfan

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

He could of just started blinking at the holograms.

This made me lol.

Blinking at holograms will be a point of ridicule for decades. Future Trek shows will reference it as a nod and a wink to how stupid it is. A future writer will have to explain it away somehow.

Lower Decks should be rubbing their hands together with the material they can get from this show.

Banana Republic 1

GSPfan wrote: »

This had some elements I really liked. But it was wrapped up in a badly acted overly emotional mess. They are forcing these characters into stupid situations.

So the burn was the emotional reaction to the death of his mother wasn’t it? That’s why he doesn’t want to think back before being in the holodeck.

Amazing to think that one Kelpian was the cause of millions/billions of deaths. If time travel is possible then that kid should be killed at birth.

This show is all kinds of crap.

Preventing something happening which you know will happen is mathematically impossible so say scientists from Australia, recently. I agree this show is dreadful.

Banana Republic 1

GSPfan wrote: »

This made me lol.

Blinking at holograms will be a point of ridicule for decades. Future Trek shows will reference it as a nod and a wink to how stupid it is. A future writer will have to explain it away somehow.

Lower Decks should be rubbing their hands together with the material they can get from this show.

The Orville will burn them bad.

GSPfan

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Preventing something happening which you know will happen is mathematically impossible so say scientists from Australia, recently. I agree this show is dreadful.

Well Australians are 11 hours into the future from my perspective so I’ll consider them more advanced than us.

AllForIt

jackboy wrote: »

Even worse than that. They are representing the ‘diverse’ people as weak and unable to manage their emotions. I’m not sure how the diverse groups included in the show are not terribly insulted by the stereotypical representation.

I meant to reply to this earlier. I think the idea is 'weak ppl are better, strong ppl are bad'. You get that in religion : "The meek shall inherit the earth". So in their eyes representing the diverse as week, to them, is intended as a good thing.

Rawr

The episode had some good moments, but it ended in a way that makes me fear that the finale will just be a re-hash of Season 2's ending.

In other words, a big flashy space battle where all of the friends they made over the season suddenly turn up to help save the day. Expect someone from United Earth to show up, Trill, Vulkan, Book's people and probably a few others I forgot.

....probably the Space Whales will come back to help...because story....

Then I wouldn't be surprised if they decide that "Discovery is a danger the the galaxy, we must....go forward *another* 1000 years....." or something along those lines.

The Deux Ex Machine-bots all over the ship was a silly idea. If the Orb Data was going to be helpful, why wait dangerously late to chip in?