Discovery 3x11 - "Su'Kal" ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

corkie

Discovery 3x11 - "Su'Kal" ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }


Directed by Norma Bailey


IMDb Link: - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12047908/

Memory-alpha epsiode breakdown: - https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Su%27Kal_(episode)



Star Trek: Discovery | "Su'Kal" (S3, E11) Recap | The Ready Room <<< US VPN Required

^^^ Above links probably contain spoiler information.

Sad Professor wrote: »

Folks, in relation to spoilers, you don't have to use spoiler tags in the episode threads. If someone hasn't seen the episode yet then they shouldn't be reading the thread, period. When it airs on Netflix doesn't matter. I would suggest that whoever starts the thread put a spoiler warning in the title. I'll add one to this now.

Warning: This thread will contain spoilers for the episode. Spoiler tags will not be used, so if you don't want to be spoiled read no further.

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{ ** Spoilers Below ** }

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Goodshape

10 minutes of emotional farewells for an away mission.

What is this show.

Edit::

The rest of it was decent enough.

Good planet stuff.
Doug Jones is a gift, although I wasn't really buying Saru's lack of professionalism here. Poor writing.
The villains in these Star Treks have a tendency to pantomime and I don't like it. Also I just couldn't be bothered with "the chain".
Tilly should have stayed on the lower decks.

liamtech

Goodshape wrote: »

10 minutes of emotional farewells for an away mission.

What is this show.

yep - and the story is ludicrous - Im not even gonna go into it

This season is dreadful - Literally the worst season of trek since ENT s2

Few if any redeeming qualities

ilovesmybrick

Goodshape wrote: »

10 minutes of emotional farewells for an away mission.

What is this show.

It was ludicrous. But you knew it was going to be an important emotional plot point later in the show because there was extra whispering.

Turns out leaving an Ensign in charge can lead to bad times. Who knew.

I have to say, the season started off okay, with some interesting premises, but as it has progressed it has just been disappointing. I think that Discovery is, at least to me, the weakest of the trek series by a country mile. Even my partner (who isn't into Trek and will generally go along with a show) is finding it an utterly stupid season.

PirateShampoo

I love to hate this show, it's so desperate to be cutting edge, woke and and full of emotional connections it sacrifices story telling, character development and Lore.

Burn Baby? Is this the best they could come up with?

Session 4 will be Cptn Burnham.

Ensgin Captain Tilly dialogue was awful and forced with Orion bird.

And the most sinful of all, Teleporting threw shields.

ilovesmybrick

Also, a quick one that just popped into my head, what's with the tentacles in Star Trek this year?Finale of Picard, finale of Lower Decks, and now this episode?

Though I'll give Lower Decks a pass since it was supposed to be the last Trek show out this year so they may have been ripping the piss.

Slydice

Whew! What a cliffhanger! For sure I thought the episode was going to be about the monster being the actual kid or something. I didn't think they'd let the chain get discovery. Wrecking Starfleet makes the sound of a time jump & fix seem more likely to me.

duffman13

Why the hell didn't they just jump away further and then jump back to the nebula at the predetermined time.

How can they transport through Shields? In which case why not just transport a bomb rather than firing Torpedoes

The Kelpian kid caused the burn, what a let down!

flazio

Did you hear the one about a Bajoran, a Trill and a human walk into a holosuite?

FutureGuy

What a huge letdown. But that was to be expected.

Banana Republic 1

Another bag of vomit, awful writing. Burnham gaslighted Saru into killing him self and there was a major editing balls up with Tilly s hair. If your ones ship can jump just like that why couldn’t the rest of starfleet be upgraded.

GreeBo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWHqLJHss9U

alchemist33

I actually enjoyed it, and I've mostly been critical here. There was actual tension and non-Burnhams got to do stuff. Tilly's repartee with the green goblin was entertaining, but would have worked better if Tilly had shown thus before and not become a new character.

I, too, wondered why they didn't spore drive far far away and them spore back when shields were fixed.

As for the cause of the Burn, er, wha? They're going to have to explain that one a bit better.

PhiloCypher

Didn't expect to like this one as much as I did, I actually really liked the concept of a desperate mother, knowing she was going to die, constructing holo programs to take care and educate her son when she's gone . Its pure star trek , as is the immature super powered teen trope(see TOS Charlie X) . As an explanation of the burn, it just about works for me. All the dilithium in the federation/quadrant/galaxy exploding was such a bonkers concept to begin with, it was never gonna be able to be satisfactorily explained through scientific means. Pulling the trigger on the chekovs gun of an omnipotent being whether its Charlie X, Q or in this case and immature super telekinetic Kelpian finally doing something with galactic implications actually worked for me. What didn't, was Michael's complete lack of self awareness in chastising Saru over a lack of objectivity after the **** shes pulled .

Banana Republic 1

Whilst I agree it wasn’t as bad as the last two but that’s no praise at all. The have stooped to a new low with the Burnham story though. having her gaslight Saru to keep her in the story is really pathetic.

TheValeyard

Right so,

I thought the Holo thing was straight out of Hell from Hellraiser. Looked cool though.

Why are those Guards wearing helmets? Starfleet Operatives?

Bet ya they wont jump to the right location. Something to do with two ships joined together or be part of some trap.

Got to be more to the Burn than simply one dude having a meltdown. Could be a Charlie Evans or Gary Mitchell thing going on.

Poor Tilly, just hour on the job and lost control of the ship.

So, it's going to be Michael saving the world again aint it?

Banana Republic 1

They also stole the set of the David Bowie film labyrinth and the aliens from the Tom cruise film live die repeat.

~Rebel~

Happy Christmas folks!

As for the episode... I'm gonna watch out the end of the season, but alas I'm finished with Discovery beyond that. Every time they have a decent conceptual idea, they seem to think of how to execute it in the most overwrought teen-drama way possible.

It's firmly transitioned into YA Star Trek Fanfic.

Yeah. I'm done. I got through to where Burnham says you deserve the chair to Tilly and I thought it must have been on half an hour it was dragging so much, but was less than 10 minutes. A sure sign enough was enough.

I have even read through the other posts, as spoilers can't ruin this it its so bad. I'll eventually finish this episode, probably in 10 minute bites which I hope is achievable. It's soap opera quality, bad soap opera quality. As much as I've seen of the episode so far I really dislike how Burnham is undermining Saru. She's a horrible, unlikeable character.

Did anyone get a message from Netflix asking if they were enjoying Discovery? I didnt answer but if it comes up again it's getting a 'No'. I want this cancelled.

Oh, happy Christmas Trekkies.

liamtech

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah. I'm done. I got through to where Burnham says you deserve the chair to Tilly and I thought it must have been on half an hour it was dragging so much, but was less than 10 minutes. A sure sign enough was enough.

I have even read through the other posts, as spoilers can't ruin this it its so bad. I'll eventually finish this episode, probably in 10 minute bites which I hope is achievable. It's soap opera quality, bad soap opera quality. As much as I've seen of the episode so far I really dislike how Burnham is undermining Saru. She's a horrible, unlikeable character.

Did anyone get a message from Netflix asking if they were enjoying Discovery? I didnt answer but if it comes up again it's getting a 'No'. I want this cancelled.

Oh, happy Christmas Trekkies.

It is just so hard to watch this season -

FOR COMPARISON
Season 1 - Lorca Carrying it in the early episodes - Novelty of Trek FINALLY being back played its part. Getting to know the universe of this show, coupled with the spore drive. Some complaints but i enjoyed it. Loved the Mirror Arc - Ending was very weak but overall a good season, which i rewatched quite a bit during the run and at least once since then

Season 2 - Pike was fantastic. Story seemed weak but i was interested. Some really good Segways into Section 31, and Georgiou. Some real high points with the Cage Sequel being the most notable. Weaker ending again but not bad - Season 2 had higher peaks than Season 1, for me anyway. I didnt rate it as good as S1 but it was enjoyable mostly

Season 3 - Shockingly bad writing. A contrived story that i have had a serious problem connecting with. Episodes are dragging so much, that i do find myself barely paying attention at some points. High point was finding starfleet, and David Cronenbergs character, with me hoping that it would be the focul point for the burn. Utter let down, with pointless Segway into the mirror universe. The Overall Burn Arc doesnt interest me at all. And i find the contrived nature of the predicament (Orions are dangerous, few ships, WHERE THE HELL IS EVERYONE ELSE, ) to be painful. The writing is abysmal

Understanding that the central complaints of the show are present in all three seasons (the universe revolves around Michael Burnham, Tilly is annoying, etc), i am at a crossroads with this show. I dont want to see it cancelled, yet. I actually get rather sad thinking of the long gap between this and Enterprise. But im becoming indifferent. This season has been so poor, IMHO. I wouldnt be surprised if having renewed for season 4, they renew for a fifth FINAL season. And i would struggle to be disappointed as such. My only fear is that it takes the franchise with it. I want more picard, bring on Strange New worlds, give us some more Post-TNG Era trek. If we get these, im happy to see discovery end

CastorTroy

Didn't understand the point of changing the appearances. Said they changed their appearances so as to not scare the child, even though they are all from races that were known. And changing Saru to human and the humans to something else.
And if I remember correctly, didn't the crew usually dress for the holodeck before entering. Seems in the future they make it seem like they've rewritten the dna and removed any physical items they might have, which are then restored to normal upon leaving. Yet Radiation poisoning symptoms still show up.

As critical as I was of Tilly, I don't think she did much different than another captain might've done. Apart from the smile

AllForIt

I think that was the best episode of the series so far and rather good, and I find myself in shock saying that. Or maybe the least worst episode ever. No, I did actually enjoy that episode maybe just because it kept my attention all the way though which would be a first for S3.

I thought both Tilly's scene during the stand off and Burnham's interaction with the Kelpien was rather good. Or maybe I have just lowered my standards. I think that's the first time they've gone on an away mission that it has grabbed my attention in the way Star Trek of old used to. Apart from the early scene with Tilly and Burnham it's the first time Burnham wasn't really annoying.

This series is so frustrating. The odd time I like it but most of the time I don't.

kowloon

Watched that episode back to back with the latest episode of The Expanse. Trek didn't come out of that competition well despite the effects budget.

Goodshape

kowloon wrote: »

Watched that episode back to back with the latest episode of The Expanse. Trek didn't come out of that competition well despite the effects budget.

Pretty much same. I caught up on the four new episodes of The Expanse over the past couple of days.

The difference in quality is sad, quite frankly.

TheValeyard

Goodshape wrote: »

Pretty much same. I caught up on the four new episodes of The Expanse over the past couple of days.

The difference in quality is sad, quite frankly.

Yeah, but you need to remember that the Expanse, while brilliant, is coming from some very successful series of books. The story is already set in stone, clear objectives, character arcs, etc. Its great Sci fi and glorious. The Discovery Team kinda making up a whole new saga in some backroom slurping on overpriced coffee.

Joe Don Dante

WTF was that?? Inception In Space. this show has gone to s**te rapidly

somuj

A kelpian with the phoenix power. Robot Professor X. will have to mind meld with it.

Banana Republic 1

Joe Don Dante wrote: »

WTF was that?? Inception In Space. this show has gone to s**te rapidly

Inception had a coherent plot.

It was a bad episode of Jerry springer.

CastorTroy

Remember we got a new speaking member of the bridge crew. May find out her name in the next couple seasons

somuj

SouthWesterly wrote: »

It was a bad episode of Jerry springer.

Reminded me of wearing a christmas jumper

Dave0301

Painting Saru as an ineffectual captain that might make compromised emotional decisions getting lectured by...Michael Burnham.

Right.

Actually thought this episode had hints of what potential this show has but I just don't care about the characters which is a result of the writing.

silverharp

i got one good unexpected laugh out of it, was watching the episode with my wife, I was wondering why Saru hadnt said in the last episode he knew the woman was pregnant, my wife said "because they hadnt thought of it yet"

Goodshape

silverharp wrote: »

i got one good unexpected laugh out of it, was watching the episode with my wife, I was wondering why Saru hadnt said in the last episode he knew the woman was pregnant, my wife said "because they hadnt thought of it yet"

Ah, yes, but what you haven't yet realised about Kelpians is that <plot-contrivance> and <mcguffin>.

AMKC

Ye well that was a mess. So many things wrong with. Did Discovery not raise its shields or were Osyras troops able to beam through them I wonder. The part on the planet I found boring. This whole episode really was a load of rubbish. Oh look Micheal and Book are going to somehow save the day in the next episode or two now then Tilly will be demoted and Micheal will become Captain. The explanation for the burn was rubbish. I really did get it hard to watch that full episode it was very tedious.

seamus

Again, bones of a good episode ruined by poor writing.

Burnham lecturing on objectivity? GTFO. Surely there was someone else who could have been picked for that.

Kelpian feotus randomly mutating to suit the environment? Gonna need more woo and mcguffins to accept that one.

Apparently Discovery's crew are too inept to consider cloaking when they're just sitting in the open. And in a time when everyone has personal transporters, each ship isn't equipped with some form of interference generator to stop people beaming in?

The exchange from Tilly does have precedence - in Season one when she pretended to be Captain Killy. So that's not bad writing.

Continuity took a holiday near the end. Tilly hair back off her face then next shot it's almost covering her eyes, back behind her head again for next shot. Not sure if they are too bothered about quality.

AutoTuning

It’s a bit all over the place but Tilly isn’t the first acting captain to lose a ship. They’ll get it back and I assume somehow make her look competent, but still like the new slapstick character. She’s certainly no Janeway and almost as annoying as Neelix.

Seriously, couldn’t they have left one of the many, many competent crew members in charge? Detmer? Reno?

Stovepipe

there was extra whispering.

You got it in one. If S M-G is the best they can get to play "Michael Burnham", then they need to go back to Central Casting and ask for someone with actual acting talent. The whispering habit is the kind of thing they knock out of you in 1st year drama classes.

CastorTroy

Michael saying Saru was unable to be subjective was as stupid as Abrams Kirk taking command of the Enterprise by saying Spock was too emotional.

At least Tilly, as number 1, was left in charge, unlike other ST series where all high ranking officers go on the away missions.

CastorTroy

Stovepipe wrote: »

there was extra whispering.

You got it in one. If S M-G is the best they can get to play "Michael Burnham", then they need to go back to Central Casting and ask for someone with actual acting talent. The whispering habit is the kind of thing they knock out of you in 1st year drama classes.

Warning. Bad joke/reference incoming.

Maybe she wants to rejoin Walking Dead as one of the Whisperers

At least Doug Jones got a break from the make up chair for a couple of eps. Early Christmas present for him.

flazio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

At least Doug Jones got a break from the make up chair for a couple of eps. Early Christmas present for him.

That's always been a Star Trek trope to find some way to give any regular who's usually caked under make up some way to appear human.

Mimon

Tough time being a Star Trek and Star Wars fan with Discovery and the three latest Star Wars Movies. Really disappointing writing.

CastorTroy

But then there's Lower Decks, Mandalorian and the final season of Clone Wars

Banana Republic 1

CastorTroy wrote: »

Michael saying Saru was unable to be subjective was as stupid as Abrams Kirk taking command of the Enterprise by saying Spock was too emotional.

At least Tilly, as number 1, was left in charge, unlike other ST series where all high ranking officers go on the away missions.

First officer... no 1 isn’t a rank ffs

GreeBo

So they can last at most 4 hours before dying of radiation poisoning, the shields that protect the ship will take 3 hours to restore and noone thinks that maybe they should wait before going exploring?


And hands up who will be surprised when we (Burnham!) Discover that suck'all can't leave the planet since he has become one with dilithium and needs the radiation to live?
I'm sure he will manage to have a nice dream that will fix all the other dilithium though.

Stovepipe

Number 1, came about from Naval operations, as the second in command of a Naval ship, ie, he or she is the First of the rest, as the Captain, by tradition in the RN, at least, is not a member of the wardroom because of his or her isolated position as the Captain (or Master) of the vessel and to this day, does not dine in the wardroom and technically,may not enter the wardroom except by invitation. In small ships, with no room for a seperate wardroom, the Captain will dine in the wardroom but he will have his own cabin. The Captain's day room or cabin is traditionally located close to the bridge. Also, as Star Trek tries to stick to tradition, the Captain is normally announced onto the bridge and visitors to the bridge normally ask permission to enter the bridge.

bilbot79

They are clearly setting Saru up to fail and be usurped by Burnham. This is no way to treat a Star Trek Captain and the writers should be shot

While this is all feminist and woke etc, there's absolutely no need to undermine Saru and make him weak. Star Trek has nothing to prove to feminism, Kathryn Janeway was a great leader.

Micheal Burnham is a terrible character and I may be forced to stop watching when she overtakes Saru

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

First officer... no 1 isn’t a rank ffs

Neither is first officer. :pac:

bilbot79

Stovepipe wrote: »

there was extra whispering.

You got it in one. If S M-G is the best they can get to play "Michael Burnham", then they need to go back to Central Casting and ask for someone with actual acting talent. The whispering habit is the kind of thing they knock out of you in 1st year drama classes.

She goes for the oscar every time!