18 months for Carragaline stabbing

V8 Interceptor

fantaiscool wrote: »

He has probably been born and raised in Ireland. Therefore he is Irish.

If you were born and raised in China would that make you Chinese?

Damien360

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I'm convinced that eventually, a solicitor will take a case against the state over the lax sentences and bail conditions in this country. Its just ridiculous how many crimes are committed by people on bail or temporary release or remission.
.

A solicitor? No chance. A more likely scenario is an aggrieved family member deciding their own form of justice on either the judiciary or those involved in the case. Not for one moment condoning it but it will be similar to the Verocia Guerin moment when the state finally got the kick in the ass required to wake up and deal with things properly.

yerwanthere123

weldoninhio wrote: »

Being born and raised in Ireland to foreign parents, and living here to the age of 100, doesn’t make you Irish.

It absolutely does, what the hell are you even talking about?

I'm as disgusted by the 'sentence' the offender was given in this horrific case as much as any reasonable person, but don't let the thread descend into this kind of nonsense.

fantaiscool

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

If you were born and raised in China would that make you Chinese?

Yes, no doubt I'd consider myself Chinese as would almost anyone else in that situation as they'd have lived Chinese their entire lives.

Consider the scenario whereby your parents sit you down tomorrow and tell you they are actually English but moved to Ireland as children. Would you consider yourself English?

weldoninhio

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

It absolutely does, what the hell are you even talking about?

I'm as disgusted by the 'sentence' the offender was given in this horrific case as much as any reasonable person, but don't let the thread descend into this kind of nonsense.

This kind of nonsense?? Perhaps look up 27th Amendment to the constitution. You do not automatically become Irish because you are born and raised here. Another spoofer who thinks their version of reality overrides the actual law.

yerwanthere123

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

It absolutely does, what the hell are you even talking about?

I'm as disgusted by the 'sentence' the offender was given in this horrific case as much as any reasonable person, but don't let the thread descend into this kind of nonsense.

Being born in Ireland does not make you automatically Irish.
That's the law

Topgear on Dave

fantaiscool wrote: »

He has probably been born and raised in Ireland. Therefore he is Irish.

Pre 2004 I think this is correct.

"27th amendment of the constitution act 2004"

If this wee scut is 18 or 19 now he is very much "one of ours".

V8 Interceptor

fantaiscool wrote: »

Yes, no doubt I'd consider myself Chinese.

Would the native Chinese?

Hamachi

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

It absolutely does, what the hell are you even talking about? :

If you’re going to get all indignant, at least arm yourself with a rudimentary understanding of the law.

fantaiscool

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Would the native Chinese?

Nice snipping of the other part of my post where you got checkmated

Have the decency to respond to posts in full before you get a response. Good lad.

V8 Interceptor

Well I was asking about China and you diverged. Can you just answer the question I asked please Sir?

Sweetemotion

fantaiscool wrote: »

Consider the scenario whereby your parents sit you down tomorrow and tell you they are actually English but moved to Ireland as children. Would you consider yourself English?

I'll be pretty sure, that the parents would consider them English, even if you thought they were Irish.

Why are African Americans called African Americans, surely they are just Americans.

V8 Interceptor

This topic is a minefield because there's ethnic and there's citizen. There's also the oft neglected fact that a lot of people from immigrant stock don't consider themselves fully Irish themselves. They'd say they're Polish-Irish, Nigerian-Irish etc. Hell we have a load of nutters in the north east of the Country who've been here 400 years and still say they ain't Irish.

Generally speaking when immigration is low, people who come here fully integrate and are as Irish as the next person. We all probably know at least one person we knew growing up pre mass immigration who fit this bill. But when you have an avalanche of immigration you tend to get communities of immigrants sticking together, not fully integrating and believing themselves to be kind of extracts who were just reared here. Every group that emigrates to a place in large numbers set up a kind of mini homeland in their new Country. The Irish were masters at it.

As I said in another thread everything boils down to numbers at the end of the day. Its only by keeping numbers down that you preserve the native culture etc.

fantaiscool

weldoninhio wrote: »

This kind of nonsense?? Perhaps look up 27th Amendment to the constitution. You do not automatically become Irish because you are born and raised here. Another spoofer who thinks their version of reality overrides the actual law.

Following on from your logic and strictly following the law, which you seem to cite as the ultimate authority, if it was found that this lad was born in Ireland, then it would have been at a time when he achieved birthright Irish status in full accordance with the law. Currently he would be Irish under the law, if you are aware of how the law works.

weldoninhio

fantaiscool wrote: »

Following on from your logic and strictly following the law, which you seem to cite as the ultimate authority, if it was found that this lad was born in Ireland, then it would have been at a time when he achieved birthright Irish status in full accordance with the law. Currently he would be Irish under the law, if you are aware of how the law works.

That may be so, depending on his date of birth, but currently there is no birthright citizenship. You stated earlier that being born and raised here would make him Irish, that is no longer the case.

fantaiscool

weldoninhio wrote: »

That may be so, depending on his date of birth, but currently there is no birthright citizenship. You stated earlier that being born and raised here would make him Irish, that is no longer the case.

You claimed he wasn't one of "our lads". When challenged you cited the law as your metric. It was then shown to you that under the law he is seen as fully Irish, if indeed born here since he was given that status lawfully at the time and retains it under the current law and will continue to have that status until death.

yerwanthere123

weldoninhio wrote: »

This kind of nonsense?? Perhaps look up 27th Amendment to the constitution. You do not automatically become Irish because you are born and raised here. Another spoofer who thinks their version of reality overrides the actual law.

bubblypop wrote: »

Being born in Ireland does not make you automatically Irish.
That's the law

Hamachi wrote: »

If you’re going to get all indignant, at least arm yourself with a rudimentary understanding of the law.

Thanks for explaining the law to me, the law which took effect January 2005. People born before this date are birthright citizens, the person in question is 18. Can you remind me what year he was born then so, and how that might affect his citizenship?

Surreptitious

Who cares? He was attacked ruthlessly when he was helpless and got fck all justice for it.

fantaiscool

fantaiscool wrote: »

You claimed he wasn't one of "our lads". When challenged you cited the law as your metric. It was then shown to you that under the law he is seen as fully Irish, if indeed born here since he was given that status lawfully at the time and retains it under the current law and will continue to have that status until death.

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Thanks for explaining the law to me, the law which took effect January 2005. People born before this date are birthright citizens, the person in question is 18. Can you remind me what year he was born then so, and how that might affect his citizenship?

To quote Homer Simpson

“Kids.. kids.. you’re BOTH wrong!”

Please don’t state things and not provide evidence, I googled this and immediately proved you both wrong (or at least - half right).

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html

CitizensInformation wrote:

If you were born in Ireland on or after 1 January 2005 and neither of your parents were Irish or UK citizens, your entitlement to Irish citizenship by birth depends on your parents’ residence status and history.

One of your parents must have:

Lived in Ireland or Northern Ireland for 3 out of the 4 years before you were born or
Have the right to live in Ireland or Northern Ireland without any restriction on their period of residence
Only reckonable residence is counted towards the 3 out of 4 years needed. This does not include periods spent in Ireland on a student visa or while waiting for a decision on an international protection application.

So the conclusion? It depends. Neither of you are fully correct nor fully incorrect.

fantaiscool

Deleted User wrote: »

To quote Homer Simpson

“Kids.. kids.. you’re BOTH wrong!”

Please don’t state things and not provide evidence, I googled this and immediately proved you both wrong (or at least - half right).

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html



So the conclusion? It depends. Neither of you are fully correct nor fully incorrect.

You've completely misunderstood my point but at the same time proved it.

These lads are basically saying that a pedantic technicality of law is going to determine whether or not these they will actually redact their views and totally accept this lad or other lads like him as one of "our lads".

fantaiscool

fantaiscool wrote: »

You've completely misunderstood my point but at the same time proved it.

These lads are basically saying that a pedantic technicality of law is going to determine whether or not these they will actually redact their views and totally accept this lad or other lads like him as one of "our lads".

Oh! sorry if I did, it’s late :pac:

Yeah im not really sure some of these folks have a full grasp on reality. If someone’s born in Ireland or spends a great deal of their life here, rare would you find someone who’ll consider them “not Irish”.

My cousin is adopted from Vietnam, they’re as Irish as bacon and cabbage.

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh! sorry if I did, it’s late :pac:

Yeah im not really sure some of these folks have a full grasp on reality. If someone’s born in Ireland or spends a great deal of their life here, rare would you find someone who’ll consider them “not Irish”.

My cousin is adopted from Vietnam, they’re as Irish as bacon and cabbage.

Adoptions have different rules.

Thelonious Monk

I don't know where people get the time to care about this foreigner scaremongering. Life is too short, for all your worries of Ireland turning into Nigeria or Islamabad, you'll be well gone by then anyway. Societies have always been dynamic and changed for better or worse.
There's a person in this thread who I'm pretty sure has a cushy civil service job where he can't get sacked and will get a nice pension and he spends all day on boards giving out about foreigners and people on welfare. Can't get my head around that. You have it f*cking easy mate.
We have it good in this country compared to most of the world. People are just people, I've seen it lots of times in the news Irish people getting up to no good in Australia and elsewhere.
I had a relative beaten to death by 2 Irish teenagers, it doesn't make it any easier that they weren't foreign. And they didn't even do any time, not even after reoffending since.

CtevenSrowder

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh! sorry if I did, it’s late :pac:

Yeah im not really sure some of these folks have a full grasp on reality. If someone’s born in Ireland or spends a great deal of their life here, rare would you find someone who’ll consider them “not Irish”.

My cousin is adopted from Vietnam, they’re as Irish as bacon and cabbage.

I think people are confusing ethnically Irish with maybe culturally Irish/Irish by Law (which I've done in the past, where's Sand!)

Daragh1980

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I had a relative beaten to death by 2 Irish teenagers, it doesn't make it any easier that they weren't foreign. And they didn't even do any time, not even after reoffending since.

Were those teenagers from posh /well-off backgrounds?

Thelonious Monk

Daragh1980 wrote: »

Were those teenagers from posh /well-off backgrounds?

Nope.