Change from 22 swift to 22 hornet.

Pat McGroin

Hey all.

I'm thinking of changing my 22 swift for a 22 hornet.
Main reasons are ammo cost and looking for a smaller lighter rifle that I can shoot without a moderator.
Most of my ground gives me shots under 150m so from research, the Hornet should be plenty of gun.

Any advice either way?

Not interested in a 223 btw.

minktrapper

Being using a 22WMR for the last few years. I was contemplating going up to a hornet. At the moment I can't justify getting the hornet as most shots are around the 100yd or less. What would be a good investment might be a thermal monocular. As Fox's would probably come closer to you without detecting you.

Box of 50 WMR €20 approximately. Box of 50 hornet €50 approximately.

Cass

If ammo savings is your goal the Hornet will give you that.

The round is no where near as flat shooting as the swift so it may take a little time to get used to shooting the Hornet. With the swift out to 200 yards you just point and shoot with a zero of 100 yards as the drop from the 100 yard zero to 200 will be an inch or so. With the Hornet and depending on the bullet choice it could be as much as 6+ inches. It'll [the hornet] also be more prone to drift in the wind than the Swift.

The last thing i'll say is shot placement will be more critical. The Hornet will carry about a third of the impact energy of the Swfit.

minktrapper

.17 Hornet so.

Cass

Other than impact energy the 17 Hornet would be very close to the Swift in terms of flat shooting and wind bucking properties. The Swift would obviously beat the 17 Hornet for handling the wind, but the difference is not huge or more importantly its not as big as the difference between the 17 hornet to the 22 hornet.

The ammo for the 17 is about 15 to 20% more expensive than the 22 hornet, but not as expensive as the swift (which is twice the cost of the 22 hornet and about 35% more than the 17 hornet). So the choice is really down to ammo availability and cost of running, but yeah the 17 would be a better round.

tudderone

Ammo costs ? Has to be the .223 surely ? Ideal fox calibre.

Zxthinger

How many rounds are you using a year?
They might be 2.5x the cost of hornet but it's terminal ballistics is far superior to any hornet or and 17 cal rounds.

17 cals come with cleaning headaches. Hornets come with limits.
The cheapest solution would be to consider a 22wmr as a cheap second rifle and use it appropriately when conditions permit.

The wmr with taking running foxes at 150 yards with boiler rooms shots. The swift will do the same to 500.
The swift is a cool round for day-light hunting when you can shoot as far as you can see. The 22wmr is sufficient for clearing most moderately sized fields..

Uinseann_16

From a .22 Hornet owner , buy a .223 and if you really have a problem with the .223 , buy a .222 ;-)

Pat McGroin

Thanks for all the feedback.

Straight advice from experience lads,it's much appreciated.

I'm going back to the drawing board on this one. For all the moaning I do about cost of rounds, weight etc, it's some round on the foxes and is extremely forgiving if your aim is slightly off!!

I've had 22wmr and 223 before this and neither could compare to the swift for sheer knockdown power.

A second rifle might be a way to go, maybe a 17 hmr for the closer ranges or a few mags and greycrows every now and then. (the swift fairly chews them up)

Cheers .

Pat

tudderone

The .22-250 might be cheaper to feed ? Its a far more commonly used round both here and abroad. The swift and .22-250 are ballistic twins really.

Perazzi

A 204 is the way to go they shoot well and definitely a good fox round ad i well know

Hunter456

considering ammo costs i'd be looking into a 223 cheap to feed and deadly accurate.

Zxthinger

243 is what you need.. high ballistic coefficients buck the wind and deliver massive terminal energy

CharlieHaghy

tudderone wrote: »

The .22-250 might be cheaper to feed ? Its a far more commonly used round both here and abroad. The swift and .22-250 are ballistic twins really.

Does the 22-250 qualify for deer?

tudderone

CharlieHaghy wrote: »

Does the 22-250 qualify for deer?

As far as i know.

CharlieHaghy

Thanks I see the swift qualities using 60 grain bullets. Never knew 60 grain bullets existed for them.

Hotshot123

CharlieHaghy wrote: »

Thanks I see the swift qualities using 60 grain bullets. Never knew 60 grain bullets existed for them.

Why not 223?
Just wondering,..its cheaper than a hornet to run and plenty of killing power on foxes. Loads of ammo available.
22 wmr is good and 17 hmr good but shot placement is soo important.
Hornet rounds are around but a dying round and at €1 a bullet at least I'd say 223 is only 60-70 cent each.
If you hit the fox with 223 anywhere he is down.
I had 223 and moved to 22250 as I can shoot deer with it.
Killing power and distance is increased but cost of ammo goes to €1.50 a bullet

CharlieHaghy

223 is excellent don’t get me wrong. I was simply looking at the deer license form and it said a 22 calibre suffices. Can a 223 with suitable grain bullet satisfy the deer specs?

Hotshot123

CharlieHaghy wrote: »

223 is excellent don’t get me wrong. I was simply looking at the deer license form and it said a 22 calibre suffices. Can a 223 with suitable grain bullet satisfy the deer specs?

22250 is minimum with npws but the guards have clamped down to minimum 243 for deer. Your substitute can be only be done for what you were using the 220 for as in vermin control or deer stalking.
I've gone through it all, maybe your super can adjust this but I deal with them on a regular.
It's at there discretion really.

Uinseann_16

CharlieHaghy wrote: »

223 is excellent don’t get me wrong. I was simply looking at the deer license form and it said a 22 calibre suffices. Can a 223 with suitable grain bullet satisfy the deer specs?

No its most certainly not legal to shoot deer with a .223 or .22 hornet
.22 caliber and 1,700ft/lb
Just have a look through the forum im sure the lads are tired of awnsering ovrr and over again
AKA the 22-250 is the minimum a.220 swift is technically legal but the ammunition is simply not available in this country
Youd be as cheap to shoot a .243 tbh

tudderone

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

No its most certainly not legal to shoot deer with a .223 or .22 hornet
.22 caliber and 1,700ft/lb
Just have a look through the forum im sure the lads are tired of awnsering ovrr and over again
AKA the 22-250 is the minimum a.220 swift is technically legal but the ammunition is simply not available in this country
Youd be as cheap to shoot a .243 tbh

I was shooting Prvi 100 grain soft points in my .243 recently and it is perfectly acceptable for deer. Its not expensive at 18.50 euros or so for 20. I would imagine its no more noisy then the .220 swift or .22-250, twice the bullet weight which should buck the wind a bit better, and you can get ammo anywhere.

The only .22 centrefire i would be bothered with is the .223. Other than that get a .243, 6.5 or .308.

Uinseann_16

tudderone wrote: »

I was shooting Prvi 100 grain soft points in my .243 recently and it is perfectly acceptable for deer. Its not expensive at 18.50 euros or so for 20. I would imagine its no more noisy then the .220 swift or .22-250, twice the bullet weight which should buck the wind a bit better, and you can get ammo anywhere.

The only .22 centrefire i would be bothered with is the .223. Other than that get a .243, 6.5 or .308.

box of 20 S&B hornet ammo is 20+ euro for a box of 20 so itd be cheaper than a hornet for shooting foxes

Cass

Did ya make any progress on your thinking about this?

Pat McGroin

I looked into trading my swift but I was getting ridiculously low offers for it so I'm going to stick with it. It really bothered me that a lot of dealers considered it worthless due to the calibre. The gun is in perfect Nick and is shooting well so that really got my back up!
I know the rounds are expensive but its really only for fox shooting and Ill gladly part with my 2 euro per shot for a fox!
I'll probably keep an eye out for a nice 17 hmr setup and that can fill in when I don't need the full horsepower of the Swift.
I removed the bipod from it and went back to using the quad sticks and that has improved things on the weight issue.

Fair play to everyone that threw a bit of advice my way.

Cass

Pat McGroin wrote: »

I looked into trading my swift but I was getting ridiculously low offers for it so I'm going to stick with it..

My mate had the same problem and ended up doing the same thing. Offered him pennies for a €800 set up because its an "unwanted" caliber.

He kept it and bought himself a hmr.

tudderone

Trouble is it might be worth 800 notes to you, but it could sit on a dealers shelf for years if no one wants to buy it. Several dealers i have talked to won't take in rifles in certain calibres, as they simply cannot shift them on. You could have it rebarrelled to a different calibre ?

Cass

He bought it, only a few years beforehand, from the same dealer. That was the "insult" in the offer.

tudderone

Cass wrote: »

He bought it, only a few years beforehand, from the same dealer. That was the "insult" in the offer.

The dealer probably thought he'd keep it and he'd never see it again. I thought the swift had fallen out of favour here a long time ago. Everyone had one about 20 years ago when the guards wouldn't licence the .223's. It was hornet or swift.

Cass

To be fair i advised him against it for the sole reason of resale, but even i was shocked at the trade in price.

Cerveza

What is the price of a 223 bullet and grain? Correct me if Im wrong but a swift is 40-55 grain and approx €2.

Cass

Yup. Over double the price of most 223.

Cerveza

Say a tikka 223 what’s the largest grain bullet?

Cass

Doesn't matter the brand of rifle. 223 goes from 40gr up to 90gr.

Average is 50-55gr and the price ranges from €14 per 20 to €49 per 50. The more expensive is about €31 per 20 which at €1.50 or so is not too bad and its usually top shelf stuff.

Cerveza

Thanks cass, why do some prefer the swift if one can get a 90 grain in a 223? Correct me if I’m wrong but a 223 is a 22 bullet?

Cerveza

As in prefer swift for knocking power.

Cass

Cerveza wrote: »

Thanks cass, why do some prefer the swift if one can get a 90 grain in a 223? Correct me if I’m wrong but a 223 is a 22 bullet?

Because a 90gr in 223 is a very "odd" bullet. Its usually a 90gr VLD target round, has to be loaded for (cannot be bought as "live" ammo) and requires a rifle with a twist rate of 1:7 or faster so would make it as hard to sell on as a Swift.

Cerveza wrote: »

As in prefer swift for knocking power.

Essentially, yes.

The Swift has almost double the propellant capacity of the 223 meaning you can propel the bullet up to 4,000fps with the Swfit whereas the 223 in an average round would have a speed of 3300fps and of course the Swift bullet is slightly larger in terms of mass and so produces more kinetic energy, hence knock down power.

Feisar

tudderone wrote: »

The dealer probably thought he'd keep it and he'd never see it again. I thought the swift had fallen out of favour here a long time ago. Everyone had one about 20 years ago when the guards wouldn't licence the .223's. It was hornet or swift.

Don't forget the 5.6x57 RWS!

Zxthinger

I love my old swift. But it's a tramp to feed.. Ammo is down to 55gr Horndy.

I got mine because I could hunt deer too..and it's still a 22 suited to foxes and it falls free of the nonsense related to have large calibre rifles held on deer hunting permits.
If I had have chosen the 22-250 I'd have had a much better selection of ammo. But I'd also have been left wondering what the swift was like..lol

If I'd have want economic shooting then i might have chosen the 223. An if I was on a real budget then I might have considered the 22mag..

The swift is class but hard to feed and has no choice of ammo.
Owning one in a while might be seen a a viable reason to require reloading if reloading ever become available..

regards Zxthinger