COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Hmmzis

Looks like a 2nd dose for convalescents is rather pointless (at least in case of mRNA vaccines):

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.07.21251311v1.full.pdf+html

As seen in other papers, massive jump after 1st dose, but no reaction to the 2nd dose. More data needed, but it could be a way to do dose sparing: ab+ test = 1 dose, ab- test = 2 doses.

Sweet.Science

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Based on what exactly?

Based on variants . You'd have to naive to think one wont be along soon that evades all the vaccines to date

Hmmzis

mikelike wrote: »

In layman terms Hmmzis?

2nd dose not so good? One dose only ideal?

If you had Covid a single dose gives a spectacular response and the 2nd dose doesn't do anything.

Azatadine

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Based on variants . You'd have to naive to think one wont be along soon that evades all the vaccines to date

Is it not the case that the variants can't change that much or the spike will no longer be optimal? So, I'm sure scientists can figure out some of the likely variants that will be a challenge in future and plan accordingly.

timsey tiger

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

That J&J news sounds terrible. So they are basically being manufactured in the EU and then shipped to the USA to be filled?

But sure once they get to the USA they won't leave because the USA will not export any vaccines.

Every single day get worse and worse for the EU...what a sh*t show.

Sounds like it's shaping up to be a repeat of the AZ sh1t show.

seamus

The EU can get ahead of the issue this time. They have a US administration that is far more open to reasonable discussion, so it should be possible to hammer out specific protections to ensure these J&J shipments make their way back out of the US.

Repairing foreign relations is one of the big ticket items on Biden's platform, and this is a perfect opportunity to reverse the isolationism of his predecessor.

Sky King

timsey tiger wrote: »

Sounds like it's shaping up to be a repeat of the AZ sh1t show.

I'd have thought J&J were a more reputable outfit.

josip

Can the EU vaccine export controls introduced after the AZ debacle be brought to bear in this situation?
If not, can the EU introduce new controls that would at least prevent the vaccines being shipped to the US for fill?
That would bring then bring the US/J&J to the negotiating table where some deal could be reached.
Basic schoolyard stuff, but "if we can't have them, you're not getting them" can still be effective.

ixoy

There's not even an issue yet. There's just a potential problem with some (how much?) portion and whether that would become a problem is unknown.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

The EU can get ahead of the issue this time. They have a US administration that is far more open to reasonable discussion, so it should be possible to hammer out specific protections to ensure these J&J shipments make their way back out of the US.

Repairing foreign relations is one of the big ticket items on Biden's platform, and this is a perfect opportunity to reverse the isolationism of his predecessor.

The EU could just insist that vaccine intended for Europe shipped to the US for fill and finish is a different part number to that filed with the FDA. This could not then be distributed in the US as it would be a different part number. FDA approve that part number - no shipments to the US of any part number

Irish Stones

Hmmzis wrote: »

If you had Covid a single dose gives a spectacular response and the 2nd dose doesn't do anything.

If this is true, why are they giving two doses even to people who recovered from Covid?
Wasn't it better to save a dose for another patient?

landofthetree

timsey tiger wrote: »

Sounds like it's shaping up to be a repeat of the AZ sh1t show.

Thus far, only the contract with the German company Curevac has been made public. It says that the producer will make "reasonable best efforts" to deliver the agreed upon number of doses within the negotiated time frame. Pascal Soriot, the head of AstraZeneca, is now claiming the same thing. The Curevac contract also says that the producer must inform purchasers as quickly as possible of possible delays, explain the causes for those delays and present a revised timeline for delivery. That, though, is all.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spiegel.de/international/europe/europe-s-vaccine-disaster-commission-president-ursula-von-der-leyen-seeking-to-duck-responsibility-a-1197547d-6219-4438-9d69-b76e64701802-amp

Looks like all the contracts are the same so we will have the same problems again.

landofthetree

seamus wrote: »

The EU can get ahead of the issue this time. They have a US administration that is far more open to reasonable discussion, so it should be possible to hammer out specific protections to ensure these J&J shipments make their way back out of the US.

Repairing foreign relations is one of the big ticket items on Biden's platform, and this is a perfect opportunity to reverse the isolationism of his predecessor.

For empty hollow statements about friendship maybe.

But if it actually means something its America first. Biden supports Trumps policy on banning vaccine exports. He also has no interest in free trade with the EU.

Donald Trump was still US president, this outcome might have been more predictable — even palatable. But his successor Joe Biden, of whom the EU had such high expectations, is not lifting a finger to help either. He has signed an executive order upholding the ban on exporting vaccines decreed by Trump, and announced that 100 million Americans will be inoculated within his first 100 days in office. Business as usual: "America First."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/opinion-with-covid-vaccines-joe-biden-keeps-america-first-stance/a-56483371

DaSilva

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Based on variants . You'd have to naive to think one wont be along soon that evades all the vaccines to date

You'd have to be naive to think such a basic understanding is sufficient to make claims like "evades all vaccines to date".

If we reverted to being completely immunologically naive due to a single change in the virus (like E484K) we probably wouldn't have survived as a species.

Bubbaclaus

https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1359148809411043330?s=19

Is there any talk of Moderna supplies? Essentially working off Pfizer alone so far

Cork2021

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1359148809411043330?s=19

Moderna being stockpiled before mass vaccination next week?

Level 42

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1359148809411043330?s=19

that all jokeshop

hmmm

This is a really good interview with Dr Mike Ryan of the WHO. Really good.
https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/09/a-qa-with-whos-emergencies-chief-on-covid-19-why-hes-hopeful-and-when-normalcy-might-return/

Tackles a lot of the questions about when "normal" returns, what that looks like and how the vaccines help. Bear in mind also that the WHO are interested in the health of the entire world, particularly the poorest areas, so they always have a longer timeline in mind than we in the richer countries have - but even so I think it's an optimistic view compared to many we hear.

Not to make a political point, but it's clear in the interview that when he says no return to "normal" it at least partly means dealing with issues of social justice arising from the pandemic - I think the use of this language by many experts is confusing people who think they are referring to the continuation of social distancing, lockdowns etc.

brickster69

landofthetree wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spiegel.de/international/europe/europe-s-vaccine-disaster-commission-president-ursula-von-der-leyen-seeking-to-duck-responsibility-a-1197547d-6219-4438-9d69-b76e64701802-amp

Looks like all the contracts are the same so we will have the same problems again.

The US signed the agreement in August before the EU so maybe they have priority depends what that contract says.

The US production plant is having big problems with delays.

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/us-news/johnson-and-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-results-eclipsed-due-to-production-delays-report.html

ixoy

Level 42 wrote: »

that all jokeshop

We're well above average for the EU, including the likes of Germany. How on earth are we a "jokeshop"?

celt262

ixoy wrote: »

We're well above average for the EU, including the likes of Germany. How on earth are we a "jokeshop"?

Because Facebook say so...

Level 42

ixoy wrote: »

We're well above average for the EU, including the likes of Germany. How on earth are we a "jokeshop"?

not a valid comparison really because the whole eu is a jokeshop compared to the uk and israel

is_that_so

Level 42 wrote: »

not a valid comparison really because the whole eu is a jokeshop compared to the uk and israel

And this is a like for like comparison?

Van.Bosch

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The EU could just insist that vaccine intended for Europe shipped to the US for fill and finish is a different part number to that filed with the FDA. This could not then be distributed in the US as it would be a different part number. FDA approve that part number - no shipments to the US of any part number

Slap a massive punitative export tax on all pre filled vaccines, with a rebate on imported completed vaccines. If the company doesn’t bring them back they are left without the rebate.

cameramonkey

https://twitter.com/peterdonaghy/status/1359170623495372811/photo/1


image upload

Great progress being made north of the border. They seem to be doing in 2.5 days what it takes us to do a week.

Sconsey

cameramonkey wrote: »

https://twitter.com/peterdonaghy/status/1359170623495372811/photo/1


image upload

Great progress being made north of the border. They seem to be doing in 2.5 days what it takes us to do a week.

NEWSFLASH: Icelanders make up to three snowmen a week. Australians and Africans get nowhere near that.

cameramonkey

Sconsey wrote: »

NEWSFLASH: Icelanders make up to three snowmen a week. Australians and Africans get nowhere near that.

have you a problem with the data?

Sconsey

cameramonkey wrote: »

have you a problem with the data?

No I have a problem with the sperception that we are so slow compared to them...in fairness, when I read what you posted agian, it looks like you are not really having a go at our rate of vaccination. So if you were not complaining then I retract the newsflash.

is_that_so

cameramonkey wrote: »

have you a problem with the data?

The motivation in sharing the data is suspect!