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What should you do when arrested!

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    #122
    80j2lc5y7u6qs9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 957 ✭✭✭80j2lc5y7u6qs9


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Of course they care. I can think of one recent murder trial where the defendant was hung on his own words whilst being interviewed.

    If he has said nothing he would've never even stood trial. They had nothing on him.
    often the case. You should never make any comment to a garda.Think of it like wall.Once one brick is removed then another. then it's a hole you could walk through.Pretty soon the gates to the city are open


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    #123
    baalad
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭baalad


    BuzzMcdonnell wrote: »
    Ya have given a fairly different version of this story in your other thread.

    No i haven't ? I may not have mentioned every detail so some are mentioned here and not in my other thread perhaps but describing it as "a very different story" is a bit over the top.


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    #124
    JJayoo
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    If you are innocent and refuse to talk to the cops until a solicitor shows up they will assume.you are guilty.

    I would have no problem talking to them.aslong as the conversation was recorded and I had access to the full conversation if I needed it


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    #125
    An Ri rua
    Registered Users Posts: 4,493 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Henrik Agreeable Smoothness wrote: »
    often the case. You should never make any comment to a garda.Think of it like wall.Once one brick is removed then another. then it's a hole you could walk through.Pretty soon the gates to the city are open

    Good advice Ned. Fair dinkum.


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    #126
    baalad
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭baalad


    Just for the record. If you refuse to talk but you also do not request to speak to a solicitor. What happens? Is it a case of they eventually just let you go and then you wait for a court date??

    I cannot imagine them holding you and just letting you walk out the door after 3 or how ever many hours of refusing to talk!


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    #127
    BuzzMcdonnell
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭BuzzMcdonnell


    baalad wrote: »
    Just for the record. If you refuse to talk but you also do not request to speak to a solicitor. What happens? Is it a case of they eventually just let you go and then you wait for a court date??

    I cannot imagine them holding you and just letting you walk out the door after 3 or how ever many hours of refusing to talk!

    The amount of time you can be detained for is limited based on what you were arrested for, ranging from something like 6 hours to 7 days for drug trafficking offences I believe but am open to correction.


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    #128
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,342 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    baalad wrote: »
    Just for the record. If you refuse to talk but you also do not request to speak to a solicitor. What happens? Is it a case of they eventually just let you go and then you wait for a court date??

    I cannot imagine them holding you and just letting you walk out the door after 3 or how ever many hours of refusing to talk!
    At some point they either have to charge you and bring you before a court, or release you. And they'll only charge you if they have evidence on which they can charge you.

    They interview you in the hope that this will yield evidence, which may be the evidence on which they will charge you. By answering their questions you may give them evidence which may support a charge against you. By not answering their questions, you give them no evidence. So, if you want to avoid being charged, not answering their questions is always the best strategy.

    Unless . . .

    Unless (a) you are actually guilty, but (b) they don't know it yet. If they are interviewing you because they are looking for evidence against someone else who they suspect, but you act all guilty and start sweating and clam up, this may suggest to them that you have more to hide than they previously imagined. And they may then start looking for evidence that points to you. And, while your silence is not that evidence, if you are in fact guilty when they look for evidence of that guilt elsewhere they may find it.

    But that's a pretty remote TV-drama kind of combination of circumstances. In real life it's not going to arise that often.


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    #129
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,307 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    JJayoo wrote: »
    If you are innocent and refuse to talk to the cops until a solicitor shows up they will assume.you are guilty.

    I would have no problem talking to them.aslong as the conversation was recorded and I had access to the full conversation if I needed it

    Let them assume away, but only a eejit would give them your own words to build a case against you.

    Their assumptions aren't worth a jot unless they have evidence and/or statements to back then up.


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    #130
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,925 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Just as a matter of interest, would someone who doesn’t qualify for FLA have immediate access to a solicitor? Who decides who this and the cost? And honestly if one is generally law abiding and with reasonable income I suppose you have to pay yourself..

    Access to traffic/ criminal law proceedings should be free for everyone, but it’s not, is it. But seems to be.


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    #131
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Henrik Agreeable Smoothness wrote: »
    You are never just chatting with a garda.

    I can unequivocally say that statement is incorrect. Because I was one, for 9 years, and the vast majority of talking to civilians and prisoners I did was just that, idle chat. If I arrested someone for interview, it's because I already had evidence pointing towards them, or they were the second party in an incident. Until you're given the caution, nothing you say can be used in evidence. After that, yes. I'd be more wary of the Gardai that seem quite interested in what you were arrested for, rather than what you get up do when not robbing/assaulting/etc. So your statement is wrong. Sometimes, you are just chatting with a Garda, not every Garda gives a flying feck why you're in the station.
    magicbastarder wrote: »
    and interesting to see that video circulating on social media of gardai who were obviously responding to a report of anti-social behaviour on the DART. there's going to be (or certainly should be!) questions asked about that, one of the people arrested is abruptly and violently hauled off the carriage with no warning, and was not acting threatening immediately before he was grabbed.

    What's interesting is that you don't see what happened for the Gardai to be there in the first place. Reports I heard was that they were throwing bottles. Was the Garda a bit rough? Meh, I didn't see anything too bad if I'm honest, I've seen a lot worse. You don't know who these people are (or sometimes you do) and you don't know what they might have on them. I speak from experience, that you want that to happen quickly so you can ensure the least amount of damage to 1: yourself, then 2: other people.

    Lots of ex Gardai on here also by the sounds of things, people seem to have an intimate knowledge of how Gardai think without actually being one themselves. Just basing it on hearsay and conjecture, backed up by personal negative experiences. Again, as a ex Garda with 9 years experience, we would have rarely wanted to talk to innocent people...


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    #132
    80j2lc5y7u6qs9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 957 ✭✭✭80j2lc5y7u6qs9


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    I can unequivocally say that statement is incorrect. Because I was one, for 9 years, and the vast majority of talking to civilians and prisoners I did was just that, idle chat. If I arrested someone for interview, it's because I already had evidence pointing towards them, or they were the second party in an incident. Until you're given the caution, nothing you say can be used in evidence. After that, yes. I'd be more wary of the Gardai that seem quite interested in what you were arrested for, rather than what you get up do when not robbing/assaulting/etc. So your statement is wrong. Sometimes, you are just chatting with a Garda, not every Garda gives a flying feck why you're in the station.
    I disagree. I won't ever be chatting to a Garda anyway.you cannot unequivocallyunequivocally say that that unless ypu know every Garda and situation.
    not home on phone so hope it displays.hard to see.


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    #133
    Stephen Gawking
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭Stephen Gawking


    Why is it every single garda i know advises their children not to say anything if arrested but will tell everyone elses kids that 'sure its only a chat,' 'we can just clear things up,' etc


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    #134
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Stephen Gawking wrote: »
    Why is it every single garda i know advises their children not to say anything if arrested but will tell everyone elses kids that 'sure its only a chat,' 'we can just clear things up,' etc

    you are agreeing with what potential-monke said. if you are arrested you will be cautioned. then would be a good time to shut up. If you have not been arrested then you don't have an issue. It is possible to have a reasonable conversation with a guard.


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    #135
    Stephen Gawking
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭Stephen Gawking


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you are agreeing with what potential-monke said. if you are arrested you will be cautioned. then would be a good time to shut up. If you have not been arrested then you don't have an issue. It is possible to have a reasonable conversation with a guard.

    I sincerely hope no one here ends up in the wrong end of an interview room because all of the people who think that because they've nothing to hide & decide they don't need a solicitor COULD very well be in for a very rude awakening. The right to silence & the right against self incrimination are there for the protection of us all, not just the guilty.


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    #136
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Stephen Gawking wrote: »
    I sincerely hope no one here ends up in the wrong end of an interview room because all of the people who think that because they've nothing to hide & decide they don't need a solicitor COULD very well be in for a very rude awakening. The right to silence & the right against self incrimination are there for the protection of us all, not just the guilty.

    no disagreement with any of that. if you are in an interview room you will be under caution so a good time to shut us as I already said.


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    #137
    80j2lc5y7u6qs9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 957 ✭✭✭80j2lc5y7u6qs9


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you are agreeing with what potential-monke said. if you are arrested you will be cautioned. then would be a good time to shut up. If you have not been arrested then you don't have an issue. It is possible to have a reasonable conversation with a guard.
    they won't ask anything about or relating to what they learned in their 'chat'?


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    #138
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Henrik Agreeable Smoothness wrote: »
    they won't ask anything about or relating to what they learned in their 'chat'

    they can ask what they like but cannot introduce it as evidence against you.


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    #139
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Can't help but feel there's some scare mongering going on in here.

    If you're a black fella, living in To Kill A Mockingbird, it's probably best to wait for legal advice. If you're living in Ireland, however, the Gardai know most of the local criminals and you're not likely to get any issue from them. Most Gardai aren't setting out to 'pin' something on you. They just want to rule you out so they can get on with their jobs, as most of the time they know who they're looking for anyway.

    Can't really begin to explain how naive this view is. You could literally talk yourself into being arrested by the guards if they're questioning you on something.

    The guards are not all knowing and all seeing either, they're regular people with a job to do and results to get. They also have their own personal views and biasis. The law is an ass as the saying goes.

    If you're being questioned by the guards consider yourself a suspect and wait for your solicitor. If completely innocent you still gain nothing from speaking without a solicitor present.


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    #140
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,797 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Plenty of innocent people have talked themselves into trouble by trying to be helpful.

    Tell them you want to speak to your solicitor and don't say another word, not even idle chit-chat.

    This i would wait not because I am suspicious of the garda but because you may say something in your stress that may be wrong and end you up in a mess. I have not been arrested but had to give a statement after been knocked down and that is even stressful. While the solicitor was not with me I got advice on how to answer


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    #141
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Can I just point out the obvious here. This is all if you've been arrested - which they will only do with cause. There is a world of difference between being asked for a Statement of Witness and an interview under caution.

    The one caveat being if it really was you... :pac:


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    #142
    Stephen Gawking
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭Stephen Gawking


    'The right to remain innocent' by James Duane, written albeit with the US criminal justice system in mind but some of the stories he talks about are just unbelievable. Perfect examples of why people benefit from speaking to a solicitor.


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    #143
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,947 ✭✭✭kirving


    I've had little to no dealing with the Gardai, and those that I have had have been mostly positive.

    However, I've seen Gardai lie in court on three separate occasions. Twice while I was on a jury - and I had professional knowledge on the subject. Unnecessary lies to try and strengthen the case, but the defence solicitor tore them apart.

    The final time, I was waiting outside a court which I was visiting to get an idea of the process (before jury duty) and got chatting to a guy. He told me his brother was a Garda and that his case would be struck out.

    Sure enough, of the list of cases brought by that Garda, his was the only one struck out by request of the prosecuting Garda, while others got up to €350 fines for the same offence.

    Based on the above, I would be very reluctant to say anything without a solicitor.


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    #144
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Henrik Agreeable Smoothness wrote: »
    I disagree. I won't ever be chatting to a Garda anyway.you cannot unequivocallyunequivocally say that that unless ypu know every Garda and situation.
    not home on phone so hope it displays.hard to see.

    I knew me as a Garda, and I never cared unless it was my own personal investigation, in which case I wouldn't start idle chit chat because I'd want to have it over and done with. The idle chit chat usually comes if you're brought for a smoke or you're chatting with the Member In Charge while waiting. So I can unequibocally say that not every Garda is always trying to get you, because I was a Garda and I wasn't. My statement is true, not every Garda is trying to catch people. Not all, just not every, which is what you were claiming.

    Another point re saying something wrong while being interviewed; the entire interview is read out to you at the end, and you make a declaration that it is accurate and correct. If there was something in there that was taken out of context or misunderstood, that is the opportunity to clarify it.

    Again, as mentioned above, if you've been arrested then you're either a suspect or a potential suspect. Different to giving witness statements, but they all say the same, anything you say can be used as evidence (after the caution). Stay quiet if ye want, but it's the only opportunity to get your side across, and not saying anything could harm your defence later.


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    #145
    80j2lc5y7u6qs9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 957 ✭✭✭80j2lc5y7u6qs9


    [QUOTE=Potential-Monke;115704329]I knew me as a Garda, and I never cared unless it was my own personal investigation, in which case I wouldn't start idle chit chat because I'd want to have it over and done with. The idle chit chat usually comes if you're brought for a smoke or you're chatting with the Member In Charge while waiting. So I can unequibocally say that not every Garda is always trying to get you, because I was a Garda and I wasn't. My statement is true, not every Garda is trying to catch people. Not all, just not every, which is what you were claiming.

    Another point re saying something wrong while being interviewed; the entire interview is read out to you at the end, and you make a declaration that it is accurate and correct. If there was something in there that was taken out of context or misunderstood, that is the opportunity to clarify it.

    Again, as mentioned above, if you've been arrested then you're either a suspect or a potential suspect. Different to giving witness statements, but they all say the same, anything you say can be used as evidence (after the caution). Stay quiet if ye want, but it's the only opportunity to get your side across, and not saying anything could harm your defence later.[/QUOTE]
    Then you can't say it unequivocally. you know what

    unequivocally means? your personal investigation is not
    unequivocal


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    #146
    80j2lc5y7u6qs9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 957 ✭✭✭80j2lc5y7u6qs9


    Stephen Gawking wrote: »
    'The right to remain innocent' by James Duane, written albeit with the US criminal justice system in mind but some of the stories he talks about are just unbelievable. Perfect examples of why people benefit from speaking to a solicitor.
    it is interesting but is mostly case histories. Interesting in that all the cops tell their own children to never speak to a policeman but try to trick oters in it. And any thing you say which supports your innonence will be treated as hearsay and not admitted into evidence but if you incriminate yourself that can be entered in evidence in court


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    #147
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Henrik Agreeable Smoothness wrote: »
    it is interesting but is mostly case histories. Interesting in that all the cops tell their own children to never speak to a policeman but try to trick oters in it. And any thing you say which supports your innonence will be treated as hearsay and not admitted into evidence but if you incriminate yourself that can be entered in evidence in court

    you do realise that both sides in a court case are allowed to present evidence? so if there is evidence that supports your innocence your solicitor can introduce it as evidence.


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    #148
    80j2lc5y7u6qs9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 957 ✭✭✭80j2lc5y7u6qs9


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you do realise that both sides in a court case are allowed to present evidence? so if there is evidence that supports your innocence your solicitor can introduce it as evidence.
    Not anything you say to a cop in America according to that book. I was referring to that book.
    If what you say incriminates you it can be mentioned in court. If it shows you in an innocent light it is hearsay. That is specifically what you say to a cop in America. So he says do not say anything if in a police station


    On phone


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    #149
    Stephen Gawking
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭Stephen Gawking


    There seems to be an ingrained culture of undermining, circumventing or blatant disregard for the rights of citizens in this country by the gardai. Would love to know the true purpose behind this & if it impacted of peoples rights to access counsel;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_phone_recordings_scandal?wprov=sfla1


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    #150
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,205 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Richmond Ultra wrote: »
    You sign the custody record to acknowledge receipt of the sheets.

    The custody sheet will invariably have a statement showing that you were offered the sheets and told what they were, that you refused the sheets but were orally told your rights anyway.


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    #151
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,205 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you do realise that both sides in a court case are allowed to present evidence? so if there is evidence that supports your innocence your solicitor can introduce it as evidence.

    Only if the evidence is admissible.


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