What should you do when arrested!

Claw Hammer

Henryq. wrote: »

Lol ...wouldn't wouldn't prove anything if you didn't know how fast you were driving

It would prove you were driving a particular vehicle at a particular time in a particular place. That admission could be sufficient to link you to the scene of a crime.

Peregrinus

Lenar3556 wrote: »

To clarify - No one has, to my knowledge, ever been convicted of careless driving simply because they were unaware of the speed they were travelling at.

There is no requirement in road traffic legislation for a driver to, at all times be aware of the speed he or she is travelling at.

Certainly it’s good driving practice to maintain great awareness when driving, and your speed of travel is certainly included in that. But your comments in relation to a lack of awareness of ones speed amounting to guilt in a careless driving charge is very much incorrect.

I didn't say that it amounted to guilt, and I agree that on its own it would not support a conviction for careless driving. I said that it would be evidence pointing to careless driving; not that, on its own, it would be sufficient evidence to secure a conviction.

The offence under RTA s. 51 is driving a vehicle in a public place without due care and attention. The offence is commited when the defendant's driving falls below the standard of a competent and careful driver. This certainly includes a general awareness of how fast you are going; how else can you know whether you are complying with the speed limit? But in practice your want of care and attention is unlikely to give rise to a prosecution - or even a fixed penalty notice - unless it manifests itself in driving that is likely to cause concern to other drivers - drifting across lanes, driving too close, overtaking on the itside, undipped lights, that kind of thing. And the fact that the guard has stopped you and asked you if you know what speed you were doing is a pretty strong indicator that your driving has been of a nature to attract attention in some way.

But even that would be unusual; careless driving is normally only prosecuted where your driving has caused not merely concern, but an accident, or at least a near-miss.

But if, because of your lack of awareness of your speed, you have drifted up to a speed that is excessive, you're going to be charged with the speeding offence, not the careless driving offence. For that offence your awareness of what speed you were travelling at is irrelevant.

triona1

Shield wrote:

DO: Cooperate physically and comply with all instructions as soon as you're informed you're under arrest. If you're told to put your hands behind your back, do it. If you're told to get into the car, do it. The single worst thing you can do is resist arrest.

Also don't struggle or say they are hurting you because then it hurts more and then you get hurt more and then told it was because you were resisting 🙄 can't win.

Go post in another bunch of threads and shrug off this one I guess. Maybe you've got some sort of arrested attention.

Mark25

arccosh wrote: »

get a solicitor and say nothing to them in the mean time...

you'll hear "it's only some queries, why do you need a solicitor if you're not guilty of anything".... that's bull...

there are some fantastic gardai out there, but there are others who know the law very well, will judge how much you know and bend the law as far as they can go knowing this info.... you may have been told you are being questioned on a specific incident, but that doesn't mean they won't ask about tangental information...

people who are advising you against a solicitor have luckily never dealt with these type of guards, and you don't know what type you will get.....

if nothing else, at least go down with a solicitors number to hand... if you want to go it alone, at least you can stop answering questions and call in the solicitor..
that's you're legal right and don't let them insinuate otherwise....

I know things have changed in the last few years since I was in the sityation but do many people actually have a solicitor sittint in with them when they are being questioned?

I think this can happen now. Before you gotta see the solicitor before going in to the interview ir talk on the phone between interviews.

Think for most its better to have a solicitir wuth you if you can Guards can be very chatty and friendly , take you out for a smoke etc. But they are still trying to get you to say something that might not be wgat you should be saying.

magicbastarder

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can't help but feel there's some scare mongering going on in here.

Anecdote warning. About ten years ago, I rang the emergency services about a crash we'd stopped at on a motorway. Despite initial appearances, thankfully no one had been seriously injured. We were talked to by the Garda present and assured him that we'd seen nothing untoward prior to the crash (we didn't actually witness the crash itself, we arrived about 20 or 30s after it happened but the motorist in question would probably have passed us immediately beforehand) but a few months later were asked to attend our local station to give an official statement. The Garda we'd talked to - who, as it turned out was a superintendent - had blatantly lied in his report and had explicitly claimed we'd told him we'd seen the motorist in question driving dangerously, We had been clear with him at the scene that we had not. The Garda who actually took our statements admitted to us that he'd clearly been trying to do the driver and our statements would have cinched the case for him. Till we clearly refuted what he'd reported.

In short, I will not believe that all gardai have an unwavering loyalty to truth and justice. If a Garda wants to do you, they will try, and you don't want to depend on faith that you stand a good enough chance that you've got one of the 80 or 90% who *are* decent.
And the above is just a small sample of stories I've heard of wayward gardai.

So gardai investigating RTCs are dodgy now?
Of course they were taking statements, your statement being an important one obviously.
Seems like someone doing their job to me.

ohnonotgmail

bubblypop wrote: »

So gardai investigating RTCs are dodgy now?
Of course they were taking statements, your statement being an important one obviously.
Seems like someone doing their job to me.

a superintendent lying in their report about a statement given at scene is just them doing their job?

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

a superintendent lying in their report about a statement given at scene is just them doing their job?

The superintendent didn't make a report, he may have mentioned something to that guard about speaking to witnesses, maybe he got different witnesses mixed up. But there's not too many guards going out of their way to prosecute people for RTCs, particularly superintendents. Very strange he was even there, probably just happened to be passing.

ohnonotgmail

bubblypop wrote: »

The superintendent didn't make a report, he may have mentioned something to that guard about speaking to witnesses, maybe he got different witnesses mixed up. But there's not too many guards going out of their way to prosecute people for RTCs, particularly superintendents. Very strange he was even there, probably just happened to be passing.

how do you know the super didn't make a report? the post quite explicitly say they did. you're just making stuff trying to defend the guards because you were a member.

hullaballoo

magicbastarder wrote: »

The Garda we'd talked to - who, as it turned out was a superintendent - had blatantly lied in his report and had explicitly claimed we'd told him we'd seen the motorist in question driving dangerously, We had been clear with him at the scene that we had not.

bubblypop wrote: »

The superintendent didn't make a report, he may have mentioned something to that guard about speaking to witnesses, maybe he got different witnesses mixed up.

One of you is making new facts up to suit your position. And it's not magicbastarder.

I see this as blatant trolling tbh. Any more and I will treat it as such.

magicbastarder

to clarify - when my wife and i went to make the statement several months later (we'd been asked to nominate our local station), the garda who was taking the statement from each of us - and who kept us apart between her making it, and me going in to make mine - told me explicitly that it was in the case notes that he'd been sent, that we had informed the attending garda at the scene that we had confirmed we'd seen the motorist driving dangerously prior to the incident. both of us - independently - refused that version of events while making the statement; and the garda we were dealing with said to us 'the super was probably trying to build a case against the guy and hoped you'd corroborate what he had in his notes'.

i would have to guess that that sort of shenanigans does actually 'work' from time to time.
anyway, it's just an anecdote, but it was just eye opening to me that the only time i've been in a garda station (not including passport stamps or the like) highlighted a garda with an agenda trying to invent evidence.

FWIW - as i mentioned we didn't actually witness the incident - i reckon the motorist aquaplaned. it was one of those days where it'd rain torrents for a few minutes every 15 or 20 minutes. that's why i was clear to the super at the scene - i was minding my speed as a result and said that if someone *had* come past at excessive speed or otherwise, i'd probably have copped it. but i'd seen nothing like that to catch my attention.

hullaballoo

hullaballoo wrote: »

One of you is making new facts up to suit your position. And it's not magicbastarder.

I see this as blatant trolling tbh. Any more and I will treat it as such.

What does this mean?
Treat it is trolling? How or why?

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how do you know the super didn't make a report? the post quite explicitly say they did. you're just making stuff trying to defend the guards because you were a member.

Maybe someone else is making stuff up?

hullaballoo

bubblypop wrote: »

Maybe someone else is making stuff up?

Moderator: Do not post in this thread again.

Stephen Gawking

All those people posting saying 'if you've nothing to hide' etc etc, i sincerely hope you never get a bad garda because you are going to sleepwalk your way into trouble. I won't go into detail but i have had very bad experiences with had gardai. I'm not 'known' to the garda in any way shape or form.

I was just unlucky, i had 2 gards several years ago trying to put something on me because i was just unlucky enough to be near where something happened & i was naive enough to believe they're all good. As a result the next 18 months of my life where mad a living hell. When i got a solicitor involved it stopped.

Now if i were to be arrested (i haven't) i wouldn't say a word without a solicitor present. Remember, police officers are trained not to trust you. My late father in law was a garda his whole life, he always told me if i were ever to be arrested that i should say absolutely nothing & get a solicitor. Between the stories he told me & what my solicitor told me people being railroaded into serious charges is rampant.

scudzilla

Always always ALWAYS call a solicitor and don't say a word until he gets there.

About 20yrs ago i split up with my ex, the mother of my 3 kids, started seeing my now wife, she had small shop in the town we lived in, now my ex was constantly coming into her shop causing trouble, constantly making threatening calls and texts so we went o the cops and got a restraining order out on her, she didn't bother her arse with that and the calls/texts continued. One particular evening my new GF was so upset about some calls that i went round there, took her phone off her, snapped the sim and gave her the phone back.
She kicked off of course and the cops came pretty quick, they knew me quite well as i was Head Doorman at our only nightclub, told me (and my GF) all was fine and to pop into station next day for a word. (N

Went into station, said we were being arrested for Assault, Criminal Damage, she said that i had broken her arm (how that happened i do not know) and that i had been kicking and punching her for 5mins (not a mark on her)

We were released on unconditional bail and asked to report back to station in 8wks, this time we went with a solicitor, all charges dropped.

i will never go into a cop shop again without counsel

FrostyJack

What if you don't have a solicitor or ever use one? Can you ring someone to get you one or do they just provide you with one?

scudzilla

FrostyJack wrote: »

What if you don't have a solicitor or ever use one? Can you ring someone to get you one or do they just provide you with one?

They can supply a duty solicitor or use your phone call to a trusted family member and instruct them to get you one.

Its always handy knowing the name of a decent solicitor so should you ever get pulled in you know who to call

Stephen Gawking

As my Father in law said to me 'do not trust the gards in those circumstances, they are trained to not trust you.' I have known several people who made that mistake & sleep walked their way into serious charges. Gardai in this country are a cabal, they willing labelled Maurice McCabe a paedophile. Only for he recorded certain conversations they'd have gotten away with it. If they'll do that to one of their own then what chance do ordinary citizens have?

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

Stephen Gawking wrote: »

As my Father in law said to me 'do not trust the gards in those circumstances, they are trained to not trust you.' I have known several people who made that mistake & sleep walked their way into serious charges. Gardai in this country are a cabal, they willing labelled Maurice McCabe a paedophile. Only for he recorded certain conversations they'd have gotten away with it. If they'll do that to one of their own then what chance do ordinary citizens have?

Don't trust them in any circmstance. stay silent ask for lawyer

Potential-Monke

People might be slightly over-reacting here. I'm not taking away from peoples personal experiences, but you never hear the good stories. In my 9 years, I've had to take thousands of statements, including from witnesses and people who i've asked to attend the station. There's one simple rule to follow: A Garda can ask you anything, but can only demand certain things. Chatting with a Garda cannot be used as evidence, only once you have been cautioned can anything you say be used as evidence. So feel free to talk openly with the Garda, but as soon as you hear the declaration (read out at the start of giving a statement as a witness) or if you're arrested and cautioned, then don't talk, as only that evidence can be used in court, not the idle chit chat. Remember that once arrested and cautioned, there is no longer such a thing as idle chit chat, even if they take you for a smoke and start up a casual conversation, don't get involved.

As someone mentioned above, the general populace really don't know their rights, so if you're in any way worried, just don't talk and look for a solicitor. If you don't have one, and you're arrested, the station has a list of the local solicitors and they will ring and request attendance on your behalf, which most solicitors will do at the drop of a hat, lovely money for them. Most Gardai are trained in basic interview techniques, but I'd be more wary if the detectives/plain clothes members start interviewing, as they're usually better trained to a higher level and have learned techniques to get the truth.

And again, I know there are bad apples out there, but they are still highly in the minority in a force of ~13k.

Grab All Association

https://fb.watch/1FyNUnMKiH/

USA, but a lot of what he’s saying could be applied here.

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

Potential-Monke wrote: »

People might be slightly over-reacting here. I'm not taking away from peoples personal experiences, but you never hear the good stories. In my 9 years, I've had to take thousands of statements, including from witnesses and people who i've asked to attend the station. There's one simple rule to follow: A Garda can ask you anything, but can only demand certain things. Chatting with a Garda cannot be used as evidence, only once you have been cautioned can anything you say be used as evidence. So feel free to talk openly with the Garda, but as soon as you hear the declaration (read out at the start of giving a statement as a witness) or if you're arrested and cautioned, then don't talk, as only that evidence can be used in court, not the idle chit chat. Remember that once arrested and cautioned, there is no longer such a thing as idle chit chat, even if they take you for a smoke and start up a casual conversation, don't get involved.

As someone mentioned above, the general populace really don't know their rights, so if you're in any way worried, just don't talk and look for a solicitor. If you don't have one, and you're arrested, the station has a list of the local solicitors and they will ring and request attendance on your behalf, which most solicitors will do at the drop of a hat, lovely money for them. Most Gardai are trained in basic interview techniques, but I'd be more wary if the detectives/plain clothes members start interviewing, as they're usually better trained to a higher level and have learned techniques to get the truth.

And again, I know there are bad apples out there, but they are still highly in the minority in a force of ~13k.

You are never just chatting with a garda. If they are any way good they will use chatting time to find things they then ask about after caution. Also it gets people used to talking to the garda especially if they garda uses the persons connection to hobbies/interests to make an emotional connection.


The detective /plain clothes cannot use any techniques on someone who won't engage with them and their techniques. You don't have to be detective to be aware of these techniques. What interview techniques are the garda trained in?

The problem with bad apples is the others will back them ot of loyalty or peer pressure

smellyoldboot

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can't help but feel there's some scare mongering going on in here.

If you're a black fella, living in To Kill A Mockingbird, it's probably best to wait for legal advice. If you're living in Ireland, however, the Gardai know most of the local criminals and you're not likely to get any issue from them. Most Gardai aren't setting out to 'pin' something on you. They just want to rule you out so they can get on with their jobs, as most of the time they know who they're looking for anyway.

Unfortunately like most people who lose any passion for their daily jobs, a lot of gardai (as with any police force) become lazy and disinterested and an easy quick result is a good result. Hence the bullying/forceful and endlessly accusatory questions hoping to put you on the spot and land you in trouble.

I sympathize that some of the yokes they would deal on a daily basis ARE habitual liars but they do seem to keep the general tone up with anyone they're dealing with. Usually a very young guard fresh out of training or an old one looking toward retirement is grand. Watch out for the mid career-this didn't go how I planned it- types though.

magicbastarder

Potential-Monke wrote: »

And again, I know there are bad apples out there, but they are still highly in the minority in a force of ~13k.

and interesting to see that video circulating on social media of gardai who were obviously responding to a report of anti-social behaviour on the DART. there's going to be (or certainly should be!) questions asked about that, one of the people arrested is abruptly and violently hauled off the carriage with no warning, and was not acting threatening immediately before he was grabbed.

smellyoldboot

bubblypop wrote: »

So gardai investigating RTCs are dodgy now?
Of course they were taking statements, your statement being an important one obviously.
Seems like someone doing their job to me.

I personally know of a Garda involved in a serious sexual assault allegation, was back in the 80s when you daren't pursue such matters through official channels. Anyway his "punishment" was to get shunted into the traffic corps for the rest of his career, this halting any hopes of further progression. Apparently this was standard enough practice for dealing with the bad eggs. May no longer be the case but prob best advised to trust the traffic corps less than any.

magicbastarder

a garda i know works with a chap whose surname is carr.

can you imagine being arrested by garda carr.

Feisar

Deleted User wrote: »

Can't help but feel there's some scare mongering going on in here.

If you're a black fella, living in To Kill A Mockingbird, it's probably best to wait for legal advice. If you're living in Ireland, however, the Gardai know most of the local criminals and you're not likely to get any issue from them. Most Gardai aren't setting out to 'pin' something on you. They just want to rule you out so they can get on with their jobs, as most of the time they know who they're looking for anyway.

When you are a hammer everything starts to look like a nail. My Dad was in the job, this advice was say SFA, pick a dot on the wall and stare at it if they get shirty and make contact with him, another lad or a solicitor. Contrariety to general belief there is no cloak of protection being a members son, quite often there will be cúnts that'd love to do you just because.
I avoid them like a plague.

Dunfyy

Garda interviews can have “far-reaching ramifications”, which could include a suspect making a confession and being subsequently denied a trial.

“In the absence of a lawyer, a detained suspect is in a vulnerable and disempowered position, not understanding the significance of the interview, not knowing what will matter at a later point, not fully understanding all of the rights which apply,
Dr Conway said solicitors have disclosed that they “lack confidence” in this new role and often refuse to do it. There are an estimated 20,000 people detained in Ireland every year and only 2,600 had consultations with solicitors, The Supreme Court have upheld as valid, a decision made by a District Court Judge to throw out a prosecution for drunk driving (in a case where the Accused was charged with failing or refusing to provide a breath specimen at a Garda Station) on the grounds that when the Accused at the breath machine in the Garda Station asked to speak to a solicitor the Garda mistakenly thought they were prevented from giving in to the request and halting the breath specimen procedure (the State also sought to argue that given the demand facing the driver there was very little advice the solicitor could have given other than provide the sample).

The Supreme Court have endorsed the reasoning and law as stated in the Garda Custody Regulation of 1984 namely that an Accused can as of right speak with a solicitor at any time in the course of their detention.

In case of McCrea, this meant that the denial of access to legal advice in the Garda Station meant that the refusal to give a breath sample made after he asked for a solicitor was ruled out of evidence and the case against Mr. McCrea collapsed.A person under suspicion from the Gardai ,or any Government organisation with prosecutorial powers should never allow themselves be questioned without having taken specialist criminal defence legal advice.