What should you do when arrested!

Henryq.

Just wondered

Should you ask for and wait for a solicitor irregardless?

Or should you talk openly to the gardai?

Assuming you're innocent of any wrongdoing

Vikings

Henryq. wrote: »

Just wondered

Should you ask for and wait for a solicitor regardless?

Or should you talk openly to the gardai?

Assuming you're innocent of any wrongdoing

You're not obliged to say anything, you'll be told that immediately.

Depending on the circumstances, wait for solicitor.

Depends what you're arrested for

Henryq.

Vikings wrote: »

You're not obliged to say anything, you'll be told that immediately.

Depending on the circumstances, wait for solicitor.

I'm literally wondering if you're innocent should you wait for a solicitor before saying anything

Credit Checker Moose

Yes, you should wait.

Talking to the police unguarded never ends well.

kirving

Yes, you should always wait.

A simple question like, do you know how fast you were driving?

Yes - admitting you were speeding.
No - admitting you weren't paying attention.


Or more complicated. A crime was committed nearby. What did you leave your house?

You looked at your watch and remembered you left at 9am when you went for a jog.

But your neighbors security camera had a glitch and it said 8am, and a kid who skipped the first class in school, swore blind they left the house at 8am and saw you.

Now it looks like you're lying.

Samuel T. Cogley

Innocent or not, if you've been arrested there must have been grounds. Speak to a solicitor before continuing. No Comment until you have as much information as you can get from the interviewing Gardaí and then speak to a solicitor again.

Henryq.

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Yes, you should always wait.

A simple question like, do you know how fast you were driving?

Yes - admitting you were speeding.
No - admitting you weren't paying attention.


Or more complicated. A crime was committed nearby. What did you leave your house?

You looked at your watch and remembered you left at 9am when you went for a jog.

But your neighbors security camera had a glitch and it said 8am, and a kid who skipped the first class in school, swore blind they left the house at 8am and saw you.

Now it looks like you're lying.

Lol ...wouldn't wouldn't prove anything if you didn't know how fast you were driving

KevRossi

If it's for anything serious say nothing. Ask to speak to your solicitor. Stay polite but firm.

Years ago I was 'asked to accompany' two Gardai to the station to 'clear something up'. It was mistaken identity, I was in Germany when the incident happened and I had no connection to the people involved, my description; hair colour, hair length, height and weight matched someone. I was co-operative, helped them as much as possible and was about to be charged with something that would have given me 3-5 years in prison. I was called a liar and was told I had no proof when I asked them to check the port records (I arrived by car from Holyhead).

After 8 hours of this, I eventually decided to stay quiet and refused to give a statement or speak to them. Eventually got a solicitor. I was out the door after 45 minutes. Never heard a word from them again.

Peregrinus

Henryq. wrote: »

Lol ...wouldn't wouldn't prove anything if you didn't know how fast you were driving

It would be evidence of careless driving, since you should always know how fast you are going.

Plenty of innocent people have talked themselves into trouble by trying to be helpful.

Tell them you want to speak to your solicitor and don't say another word, not even idle chit-chat.

Can't help but feel there's some scare mongering going on in here.

If you're a black fella, living in To Kill A Mockingbird, it's probably best to wait for legal advice. If you're living in Ireland, however, the Gardai know most of the local criminals and you're not likely to get any issue from them. Most Gardai aren't setting out to 'pin' something on you. They just want to rule you out so they can get on with their jobs, as most of the time they know who they're looking for anyway.

Dave_The_Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Most Gardai aren't setting out to 'pin' something on you.

Unless they're in a bad mood. Much like anyone else, they'll be a c*nt in that situation and will f*ck with you as much as they can, which is a lot.

Strumms

The vast majority of us know sweet fûck all about the law so it’s prudent to stay silent until you are being represented by and in the company of a person who does know the law and can advise you.

If the Gardai/police arrest you, it’s because they believe you did something and will do their level best to prove that... say nothing..

SchrodingersCat

"Why you shouldn't talk to police"

https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

un5byh7sqpd2x0

First thing I’d do is to open a thread on boards to get 57 different opinions on what I should do.

Wanderer78

Henryq. wrote:

Assuming you're innocent of any wrongdoing

If you're innocent, role with it, I found the whole experience very interesting

Darc19

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

Yes, you should wait.

Talking to the police unguarded never ends well.

I 100% agree with that.

In an arrest situation, many gardai are not to be trusted. They have already reached a predetermined decision and will use questions to get the answers they want.

Far too many gardai think it's a game, but thankfully the current commissioner is starting to make changes and incompetent gardai are being found out.

So keep quiet until a solicitor has arrived

Wanderer78

Darc19 wrote:

So keep quiet until a solicitor has arrived

I never got a solicitor involved, but I didn't have to either, but I guess it's situational, I've been arrested once, and questioned once, they certainly like bending the rules to suit themselves alright, my phone was searched on one occasion, was told by an ex cop that that's illegal

Lenar3556

Peregrinus wrote: »

It would be evidence of careless driving, since you should always know how fast you are going.

Not sure I would agree with that.

Peregrinus

Lenar3556 wrote: »

Not sure I would agree with that.

The guards and the courts may not care greatly whether you agree with that.

Rules of the Road, page 111 wrote:

As a driver, you must always be aware of your speed and judge the appropriate speed for your vehicle, taking into account:

- driving conditions;

- other users of the road;

- current weather conditions;

- all possible hazards; and

- speed limits.

Wanderer78

Peregrinus wrote: »

The guards and the courts may not care greatly whether you agree with that.

unfortunately the legal system lives in the world of whats called 'dichotomous thinking', i.e. black and white, when reality is in fact infinitely coloured

TheBoyConor

Darc19 wrote: »

I 100% agree with that.

In an arrest situation, many gardai are not to be trusted. They have already reached a predetermined decision and will use questions to get the answers they want.

Far too many gardai think it's a game, but thankfully the current commissioner is starting to make changes and incompetent gardai are being found out.

So keep quiet until a solicitor has arrived

The Garda Commissioner is a notorious former RUC thug. In light of that I would be more cautious than ever in what I'd say to a Guard.
The current commissioner was installed in this position for one reason - to co-ordinate more effective cross border suppression of republicans.

Mod
Boards,ie does not agree with this post

Lenar3556

Peregrinus wrote: »

The guards and the courts may not care greatly whether you agree with that.

To clarify - No one has, to my knowledge, ever been convicted of careless driving simply because they were unaware of the speed they were travelling at.

There is no requirement in road traffic legislation for a driver to, at all times be aware of the speed he or she is travelling at.

Certainly it’s good driving practice to maintain great awareness when driving, and your speed of travel is certainly included in that. But your comments in relation to a lack of awareness of ones speed amounting to guilt in a careless driving charge is very much incorrect.

arccosh

get a solicitor and say nothing to them in the mean time...

you'll hear "it's only some queries, why do you need a solicitor if you're not guilty of anything".... that's bull...

there are some fantastic gardai out there, but there are others who know the law very well, will judge how much you know and bend the law as far as they can go knowing this info.... you may have been told you are being questioned on a specific incident, but that doesn't mean they won't ask about tangental information...

people who are advising you against a solicitor have luckily never dealt with these type of guards, and you don't know what type you will get.....

if nothing else, at least go down with a solicitors number to hand... if you want to go it alone, at least you can stop answering questions and call in the solicitor..
that's you're legal right and don't let them insinuate otherwise....

silverharp

A question more for first interaction, there is a whole genre of Youtube videos called "auditing" , basically they go around filming in public spaces and invariable they will attract the attention of the police. The question is, is Irish law the same as the UK? are you under no obligation to talk to the Guards or give any details if not actually arrested? The guy videoing to move things on will invariable ask "am I being detained or am I free to go?" , is that similar to here? What I find amusing is the British police seem to abuse the fact that the public dont know their rights so seem to have no shame in intimidating people unnecessarily when no actual crime has occurred.

CelticRambler

Deleted User wrote: »

Can't help but feel there's some scare mongering going on in here.

If you're a black fella, living in To Kill A Mockingbird, it's probably best to wait for legal advice. If you're living in Ireland, however, the Gardai know most of the local criminals and you're not likely to get any issue from them. Most Gardai aren't setting out to 'pin' something on you. They just want to rule you out so they can get on with their jobs, as most of the time they know who they're looking for anyway.

You can be arrested for many reasons other than being the local drug lord, serial killer or mafia mastermind; and it's fair to say that if any Garda has got as far as arresting you, then you're definitely in the frame for having something pinned on you, whether you're innocent or guilty.

Having taken a most interesting (expensive, time-wasting, ultimately pointless, but very educational) detour through the justice system several years ago, I would now always insist on having a solicitor present right from the start - especially if you're innocent.

Jim2007

Henryq. wrote: »

Just wondered

Should you ask for and wait for a solicitor irregardless?

Or should you talk openly to the gardai?

Assuming you're innocent of any wrongdoing

Over forty years ago, I attended a talk by Joe Christle (RIP) on what to do if you are being interviewed by special branch or "D INT / D J2"....


A couple of phrases stuck out:


- Don't open your f*&king mouth


- More people are up in the 'joy because they opened their mouth than because of what the did.


Of course those were different times, but still....

kirving

Lenar3556 wrote: »

To clarify - No one has, to my knowledge, ever been convicted of careless driving simply because they were unaware of the speed they were travelling at.

But they were probably convicted of speeding by casuall admitting it in a chat, despite the Guard not having any other evidence (not that they need it anyway).

Look, my point was to give an example where what seems like a simple Yes/No can be interpreted against you.

Shield

DO: Cooperate physically and comply with all instructions as soon as you're informed you're under arrest. If you're told to put your hands behind your back, do it. If you're told to get into the car, do it. The single worst thing you can do is resist arrest.

DON'T: Resist arrest.
DON'T: Try to talk your way out of being arrested
DON'T: Say stupid shit like "yiz cant coz yiv no hat on haaaa!"

Lenar3556

Kevin Irving wrote: »

But they were probably convicted of speeding by casuall admitting it in a chat, despite the Guard not having any other evidence (not that they need it anyway).

Look, my point was to give an example where what seems like a simple Yes/No can be interpreted against you.

Well that’s a different circumstance, and speeding is a less serious offence than careless driving.

In the case of speeding, the act provides that the uncorroborated evidence of one witness (incl. a garda) of opinion as to the speed a vehicle is travelling at is not an acceptable proof.

For example a Garda spots Kevin Irving flying by, stops him and asks him what speed he was doing. Kevin says he hasn’t a clue - that will immediately fail the evidential test for a speeding conviction.

Claw Hammer

Henryq. wrote: »

Lol ...wouldn't wouldn't prove anything if you didn't know how fast you were driving

It would prove you were driving a particular vehicle at a particular time in a particular place. That admission could be sufficient to link you to the scene of a crime.

Peregrinus

Lenar3556 wrote: »

To clarify - No one has, to my knowledge, ever been convicted of careless driving simply because they were unaware of the speed they were travelling at.

There is no requirement in road traffic legislation for a driver to, at all times be aware of the speed he or she is travelling at.

Certainly it’s good driving practice to maintain great awareness when driving, and your speed of travel is certainly included in that. But your comments in relation to a lack of awareness of ones speed amounting to guilt in a careless driving charge is very much incorrect.

I didn't say that it amounted to guilt, and I agree that on its own it would not support a conviction for careless driving. I said that it would be evidence pointing to careless driving; not that, on its own, it would be sufficient evidence to secure a conviction.

The offence under RTA s. 51 is driving a vehicle in a public place without due care and attention. The offence is commited when the defendant's driving falls below the standard of a competent and careful driver. This certainly includes a general awareness of how fast you are going; how else can you know whether you are complying with the speed limit? But in practice your want of care and attention is unlikely to give rise to a prosecution - or even a fixed penalty notice - unless it manifests itself in driving that is likely to cause concern to other drivers - drifting across lanes, driving too close, overtaking on the itside, undipped lights, that kind of thing. And the fact that the guard has stopped you and asked you if you know what speed you were doing is a pretty strong indicator that your driving has been of a nature to attract attention in some way.

But even that would be unusual; careless driving is normally only prosecuted where your driving has caused not merely concern, but an accident, or at least a near-miss.

But if, because of your lack of awareness of your speed, you have drifted up to a speed that is excessive, you're going to be charged with the speeding offence, not the careless driving offence. For that offence your awareness of what speed you were travelling at is irrelevant.

triona1

Shield wrote:

DO: Cooperate physically and comply with all instructions as soon as you're informed you're under arrest. If you're told to put your hands behind your back, do it. If you're told to get into the car, do it. The single worst thing you can do is resist arrest.

Also don't struggle or say they are hurting you because then it hurts more and then you get hurt more and then told it was because you were resisting 🙄 can't win.

Go post in another bunch of threads and shrug off this one I guess. Maybe you've got some sort of arrested attention.

Mark25

arccosh wrote: »

get a solicitor and say nothing to them in the mean time...

you'll hear "it's only some queries, why do you need a solicitor if you're not guilty of anything".... that's bull...

there are some fantastic gardai out there, but there are others who know the law very well, will judge how much you know and bend the law as far as they can go knowing this info.... you may have been told you are being questioned on a specific incident, but that doesn't mean they won't ask about tangental information...

people who are advising you against a solicitor have luckily never dealt with these type of guards, and you don't know what type you will get.....

if nothing else, at least go down with a solicitors number to hand... if you want to go it alone, at least you can stop answering questions and call in the solicitor..
that's you're legal right and don't let them insinuate otherwise....

I know things have changed in the last few years since I was in the sityation but do many people actually have a solicitor sittint in with them when they are being questioned?

I think this can happen now. Before you gotta see the solicitor before going in to the interview ir talk on the phone between interviews.

Think for most its better to have a solicitir wuth you if you can Guards can be very chatty and friendly , take you out for a smoke etc. But they are still trying to get you to say something that might not be wgat you should be saying.

magicbastarder

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can't help but feel there's some scare mongering going on in here.

Anecdote warning. About ten years ago, I rang the emergency services about a crash we'd stopped at on a motorway. Despite initial appearances, thankfully no one had been seriously injured. We were talked to by the Garda present and assured him that we'd seen nothing untoward prior to the crash (we didn't actually witness the crash itself, we arrived about 20 or 30s after it happened but the motorist in question would probably have passed us immediately beforehand) but a few months later were asked to attend our local station to give an official statement. The Garda we'd talked to - who, as it turned out was a superintendent - had blatantly lied in his report and had explicitly claimed we'd told him we'd seen the motorist in question driving dangerously, We had been clear with him at the scene that we had not. The Garda who actually took our statements admitted to us that he'd clearly been trying to do the driver and our statements would have cinched the case for him. Till we clearly refuted what he'd reported.

In short, I will not believe that all gardai have an unwavering loyalty to truth and justice. If a Garda wants to do you, they will try, and you don't want to depend on faith that you stand a good enough chance that you've got one of the 80 or 90% who *are* decent.
And the above is just a small sample of stories I've heard of wayward gardai.

So gardai investigating RTCs are dodgy now?
Of course they were taking statements, your statement being an important one obviously.
Seems like someone doing their job to me.

ohnonotgmail

bubblypop wrote: »

So gardai investigating RTCs are dodgy now?
Of course they were taking statements, your statement being an important one obviously.
Seems like someone doing their job to me.

a superintendent lying in their report about a statement given at scene is just them doing their job?

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

a superintendent lying in their report about a statement given at scene is just them doing their job?

The superintendent didn't make a report, he may have mentioned something to that guard about speaking to witnesses, maybe he got different witnesses mixed up. But there's not too many guards going out of their way to prosecute people for RTCs, particularly superintendents. Very strange he was even there, probably just happened to be passing.

ohnonotgmail

bubblypop wrote: »

The superintendent didn't make a report, he may have mentioned something to that guard about speaking to witnesses, maybe he got different witnesses mixed up. But there's not too many guards going out of their way to prosecute people for RTCs, particularly superintendents. Very strange he was even there, probably just happened to be passing.

how do you know the super didn't make a report? the post quite explicitly say they did. you're just making stuff trying to defend the guards because you were a member.

hullaballoo

magicbastarder wrote: »

The Garda we'd talked to - who, as it turned out was a superintendent - had blatantly lied in his report and had explicitly claimed we'd told him we'd seen the motorist in question driving dangerously, We had been clear with him at the scene that we had not.

bubblypop wrote: »

The superintendent didn't make a report, he may have mentioned something to that guard about speaking to witnesses, maybe he got different witnesses mixed up.

One of you is making new facts up to suit your position. And it's not magicbastarder.

I see this as blatant trolling tbh. Any more and I will treat it as such.

magicbastarder

to clarify - when my wife and i went to make the statement several months later (we'd been asked to nominate our local station), the garda who was taking the statement from each of us - and who kept us apart between her making it, and me going in to make mine - told me explicitly that it was in the case notes that he'd been sent, that we had informed the attending garda at the scene that we had confirmed we'd seen the motorist driving dangerously prior to the incident. both of us - independently - refused that version of events while making the statement; and the garda we were dealing with said to us 'the super was probably trying to build a case against the guy and hoped you'd corroborate what he had in his notes'.

i would have to guess that that sort of shenanigans does actually 'work' from time to time.
anyway, it's just an anecdote, but it was just eye opening to me that the only time i've been in a garda station (not including passport stamps or the like) highlighted a garda with an agenda trying to invent evidence.

FWIW - as i mentioned we didn't actually witness the incident - i reckon the motorist aquaplaned. it was one of those days where it'd rain torrents for a few minutes every 15 or 20 minutes. that's why i was clear to the super at the scene - i was minding my speed as a result and said that if someone *had* come past at excessive speed or otherwise, i'd probably have copped it. but i'd seen nothing like that to catch my attention.

hullaballoo

hullaballoo wrote: »

One of you is making new facts up to suit your position. And it's not magicbastarder.

I see this as blatant trolling tbh. Any more and I will treat it as such.

What does this mean?
Treat it is trolling? How or why?

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how do you know the super didn't make a report? the post quite explicitly say they did. you're just making stuff trying to defend the guards because you were a member.

Maybe someone else is making stuff up?

hullaballoo

bubblypop wrote: »

Maybe someone else is making stuff up?

Moderator: Do not post in this thread again.

Stephen Gawking

All those people posting saying 'if you've nothing to hide' etc etc, i sincerely hope you never get a bad garda because you are going to sleepwalk your way into trouble. I won't go into detail but i have had very bad experiences with had gardai. I'm not 'known' to the garda in any way shape or form.

I was just unlucky, i had 2 gards several years ago trying to put something on me because i was just unlucky enough to be near where something happened & i was naive enough to believe they're all good. As a result the next 18 months of my life where mad a living hell. When i got a solicitor involved it stopped.

Now if i were to be arrested (i haven't) i wouldn't say a word without a solicitor present. Remember, police officers are trained not to trust you. My late father in law was a garda his whole life, he always told me if i were ever to be arrested that i should say absolutely nothing & get a solicitor. Between the stories he told me & what my solicitor told me people being railroaded into serious charges is rampant.

scudzilla

Always always ALWAYS call a solicitor and don't say a word until he gets there.

About 20yrs ago i split up with my ex, the mother of my 3 kids, started seeing my now wife, she had small shop in the town we lived in, now my ex was constantly coming into her shop causing trouble, constantly making threatening calls and texts so we went o the cops and got a restraining order out on her, she didn't bother her arse with that and the calls/texts continued. One particular evening my new GF was so upset about some calls that i went round there, took her phone off her, snapped the sim and gave her the phone back.
She kicked off of course and the cops came pretty quick, they knew me quite well as i was Head Doorman at our only nightclub, told me (and my GF) all was fine and to pop into station next day for a word. (N

Went into station, said we were being arrested for Assault, Criminal Damage, she said that i had broken her arm (how that happened i do not know) and that i had been kicking and punching her for 5mins (not a mark on her)

We were released on unconditional bail and asked to report back to station in 8wks, this time we went with a solicitor, all charges dropped.

i will never go into a cop shop again without counsel

FrostyJack

What if you don't have a solicitor or ever use one? Can you ring someone to get you one or do they just provide you with one?

scudzilla

FrostyJack wrote: »

What if you don't have a solicitor or ever use one? Can you ring someone to get you one or do they just provide you with one?

They can supply a duty solicitor or use your phone call to a trusted family member and instruct them to get you one.

Its always handy knowing the name of a decent solicitor so should you ever get pulled in you know who to call

Stephen Gawking

As my Father in law said to me 'do not trust the gards in those circumstances, they are trained to not trust you.' I have known several people who made that mistake & sleep walked their way into serious charges. Gardai in this country are a cabal, they willing labelled Maurice McCabe a paedophile. Only for he recorded certain conversations they'd have gotten away with it. If they'll do that to one of their own then what chance do ordinary citizens have?