Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333305#Comment_118333305

When RB asked him about the lapped cars he replied along the line of focusing on clearing the track. I doubt he was thinking about the tyre situation between Hamilton and Max. Hamiltons comment was very much implying Masi or whoever manipulated the situation against him.

They didn't, they did whatever they could to finish under green flag. End of.

Hijpo

Maybe Masi was trying to hand the title to Hamilton. He had to finish the race under green flags so left it until the last lap to pull the safety car, this was buying hamilton time knowing Max was on the softs. Then he let the cars in front of verstappen go to throw the RB camp off the scent but completely under estimated the pace and race craft Verstappen has.

By not red flagging the race he was giving Hamilton the best chance at winning by restricting verstappen to one chance to pass Hamilton and Hamilton couldn't handle the pressure and went wide.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118332984#Comment_118332984

He's refused to turn up to the awards ceremony.

He behaved very decently in the post race interview, but since then he's gone dark and has clearly supported what Toto's been doing or he wouldn't be doing it. Acting petulant and refusing to turn up to the ceremony clearly shows that.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333949#Comment_118333949

I don't know about that but it's certainly correct to say that the stewards were happy to hand the race and championship to Hamilton on lap one. Redbull I thought took that remarkably well. He was allowed rejoin way up the road compared to positions before the corner. It was a laughable decision.

SCOOP 64

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333949#Comment_118333949

i would have thought Verstappen on fresh tyres rather then pace and race craft was more of a help, if it was clear at the start what Masi intensions were and Hamilton also went in for fresh tyres, both on fresh with one lap, would have been a great finish and no arguments, all fair.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118334184#Comment_118334184

But they both wouldn't have had fresh tyres because Verstappen would have stayed out for track position. Well Hamilton nearly got back at him twice but verstappen positioned his car better than Hamilton at the end of the straight. Then again Hamiltons strategy could have been to get passed him again at the second straight but just didn't get there with Max smashing the overtake button.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333949#Comment_118333949

It's hard to know if you're being serious or not.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118334184#Comment_118334184

The race director cannot dictate to Merc if they should pit or not though

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118332147#Comment_118332147

And dont forget Susi !!!

Totos wife is piling in as well , claiming how virteous and noble the whole Merc team are, and how poor Lewis was robbed !!

She didnt mention their movable steering wheel , or their rear wing...... Maybe she forgot.....

Essien

I actually didn't mind Toto before all this, now he just seems like a whingey b0llox.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333015#Comment_118333015

Very hard to argue it wasn't manipulated. Contrived to clear the cars between max and Lewis and contrived to bring the safety car in a lap earlier than the rules state, specifically to get a lap of racing instead of finishing under the safety car.

It was definitely manipulated to have one lap of racing. If that was any other laps apart from the end of the race and end of the season, a different set of rules would have applied (all cars would have unlapped as usual and the safety car would have come in the lap after they unlapped themselves, as usual)

So is that the worst thing Lewis has done or is that the height if it?

riggerman

image(1).png

Dont be at yourself

There's an alternative timeline where the race finishes under the safety car and fans, media, drivers and teams are in uproar, asking why Masi didn't use his powers under the regulations to bring the safety car in and let them race. Horner and Max releasing statements about how the sport has been tarnished, and FIA committing to a review of regulations.

Basically, as soon as Latifi binned it, there were no good choices for Masi.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118335646#Comment_118335646

There was. There was a red flag, like in Baku under the lobbying of Red Bull.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118335738#Comment_118335738

Baku after 2 cars suffered huge tyre blowouts you mean and with Max's car debris all over the main straight? That was a 100% correct safety measure.

Contrast that we had Mercedes whinging and moaning about the red flag in Saudi the week before and Toto lobbying for no safety car when Gio pulled over in a dangerous spot on Sunday. Mercedes have shown they don't give a hoot about safety if it interferes with Sir.

flazio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118335213#Comment_118335213

The DAS system was actually quite clever and clever innovations should be encouraged not derided because of who thought it up.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118335738#Comment_118335738

Red flag in Baku was 100% the correct call after 2 tire failures without warning. It’s not like they were massively benefitting from it either.

It was a bad call by Masi as he was trying to get the best of all worlds. But Mercedes are going massively overboard with the robbed angle.

Susie Wolff complaining that one persons decision single handedly it decided the championship and Wolff saying Hamilton is so disillusioned that he might not come back is pure nonsense. Would Susie and Toto be saying these things if the race played out exactly the same but in Lewis’ favour?

They have a right to feel aggrieved, certainly. But it’s sport, decisions happen over and over again that will go against you. All you can do is work to make sure it doesn’t happen again and move on.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118335898#Comment_118335898

It’s a shame Mercedes’ didn’t think the same about the bendy wing that passed the required load tests eh!

(I agree tho, clever innovation should be encouraged)

donspeekinglesh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118335898#Comment_118335898

But going by the decision to ban the tuned mass dampers Renault used in 2006(?), DAS was a movable aerodynamic device and was never legal.

A red flag would have been the right decision, but it should have been announced early in the weekend - before qualifying, so it couldn't be known who'd win/lose - that a red flag would be used instead of an SC/VSC in the last 10 laps.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336341#Comment_118336341

DAS as in dual axis steering an aerodynamic device??

donspeekinglesh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336396#Comment_118336396

Absolutely. It changes the angle of the tires in the airflow. Under the (really stupid) decision to ban TMDs DAS should never have been allowed.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118335738#Comment_118335738

OK. That was an option. But let's not forget that would also have been an unusual decision taken specifically to manipulated the show business side and not in accordance with the normal procedures that would ordinarily happen for a race. If this incident happened in the middle of the race then the procedure would have been different. It was definitely manipulated to finish the race under green flag and it was further manipulated to put max and Lewis together on track by allowing only the cars in between them.tomunlap themselves.

I don't thing it was particularly bad set of decisions, but to pretend it wasn't contrived is very silly. Lewis is completely correct to say it was manipulated. It had to be manipulated one way or another because they wanted to finish under green flag.

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336646#Comment_118336646

I agree.

The main issue for me is letting some cars through and not all. If the safety car stayed out, fine. If it came in early, fine. If all cars were unlapped, fine. If no cars were unlapped, fine. But removing the 5 cars between them wasn't OK in my opinion. I'm still delighted Max won, but I'm not happy with how it unfolded

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336694#Comment_118336694

This is the bit that gets under my goat.

The fact any individual can just decide something like this isn’t the way you want any sport to be going. I’m not going to use analogies comparing it to other sports but it was chaotic, confusing and it was something made at the last minute for the spectacle. It isn’t right that one person can do this as he/she pleases in the interests of entertainment.

Nobody wants to, or at least they shouldn’t want to, take the title off Max for something that wasn’t his fault, but the whole attitude of ‘nothing to see here’ in the wider context of this conversation will come back to bite everyone in the arse if it’s just allowed to continue in that way. There absolutely is a conversation that needs to be had and it should start with Masi getting some help, a deputy, like Charlie Whiting had for so many years.

recyclebin

As Lando would say

It's Friday then........Time to move on. This thread and the race thread has been going round and round in circles. It's Saipan or the Henry handball all over again.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336694#Comment_118336694

The other part was that they brought in the safety car on the same lap that they unlapped themselves. The rules say it should come in the following lap. But the race director can override those rules and he did so to contrive a green flag on the last lap.

I'm like you. I don't have a problem with how it worked out but Hamilton is completely right to feel shafted. Masi isn't anti-Hamilton or anything like that. But the decision to end on a green flag and only allow the cars between him and Max to unlap and bring the safety car I'm the same lap, served to shaft Hamilton.

Dont be at yourself

A red flag would have been just as problematic, if not more so. There was no damage to the crash barriers and no debris on track, so there was no safety reason for a red flag -- it would be the most overt option of interfering with the race in service of 'the show'.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338371#Comment_118338371

Well Masi made it clear that he did it for the spectacle. So if he's going to do that, make it a straight shootout where the conditions are the same.

He let the cars go, that benefitted Max, if he let them stay, it would benefit Hamilton.

How is a situation where the two rivals start beside each other on the same tyres and go at it for a couple of laps, more problematic than what actually unfolded?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338569#Comment_118338569

It wouldn't have been less problematic to do a red flag. The complaints would be equally strong, the focus would have been slightly different. They would both have been on soft tyres and Hamilton would most likely have held on and won the race and championship. And that would have been a fair result for the race given he had so much of a speed advantage in the race.

But in terms of manipulating the situation and bending the rules to create drama, it would have been roughly equally problematic

MadYaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118335633#Comment_118335633