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Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,219 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78

    you d have to question, how a team thats been pumping millions into it, and with serious racing heritage behind it, is still stuck at the back, is it the team, or is f1 just a real big boys club now!

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,125 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09

    They haven't always been stuck at the back. They were genuine midfielders when they started.

    Their fortunes are directly tied to Ferrair's success. When ferrari were stronger and were the main (though distand) challenger to Mercedes, Haas were stronger.

    The last couple of years they have really struggled and the Ferrari engine has been poor since the cheating setback. Now they ferrari engine had an upgrade and they have taken control of 3rd in the constructors championship over Mclaren.

    This year they have decided not to develop the car at all to focus on next year. So there about a year behind everyone else. A full year of development is huge In F1and , low and behold they're a second off the nearest team in quali. A second isn't bad considering they are using last year's car.

    Next year is the real test for them.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭ lolie

    We can only hope it does.

    I'd love to see Verstappen win it this year then next year have a four way fight for the drivers title between McLaren and Ferrari.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,345 ✭✭✭ recyclebin

    All bets are off for next year so if Hamilton is to win number 8, then this is the year to do it. He might not get another shot at it. Russell doesn't come into the equation at all if the car isn't near the front next year.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭ McFly85

    It’s why I hope he doesn’t do it this year. I’d hate for the turbo hybrid era to be completely dominated by one team, and RB stepping up have made it a brilliant season.

    If Lewis is to break the WDC record, I’d love to see him doing it in a hopefully more competitive field in 2022. Would be an amazing legacy to have won titles in 3 different eras.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Frank Bullitt

    I would love a really close battle next year, kinda like 2010 or 2012. This year has still been great though, I still want Max to do it, he has been superb all year.

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,125 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09

    [Missed Apex F1 Podcast] Tech Time with Matt Somerfield November 17, 2021 #missedApexF1Podcast via @PodcastAddict

    Listening to the Missed Apex tech time podcast and they have an interesting discussion of the Mercedes wing and the penalty. It was only a fifth of a millimeter outside the regulations. So whatever max was looking at on the back of the Mercedes, that wasn't it. It was just a fluke that the FIA found it to be irregular after RB Complained about it after the race in Mexico. They randomly chose Mercedes for a rear wing check and found this tiny irregularity.

    So whatever RB thought was wrong with the wing was either not wrong or is yet to be found by the FIA.

    Interesting bit of trivia they just mentioned: which 2 teams are still on their 3rd engine for the season?

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Frank Bullitt

    Yup, word on the gird is that Newey and his team presented a block of stuff to say that the bottom plane of the wing is flexing under load. That is what Max was looking at. Once the DRS failed the test, RB didn't push it too hard due to the penalty they were already going to get, so we might hear more about that soon.

    For the 3rd engine, I didn't google but I will say Alpine?

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,718 ✭✭✭✭ klose

    Haas and alfa haven't taken any engine penalties I feel?

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,125 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    Which suggests the Ferrari has the best reliability this year. It also means neither of those events is using the upgraded Ferrari engine which appears to have helped the Ferrari team in its battle for 3rd in the constructors.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,125 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09

    The saga rolls on. If red bull think they're on to something then they'll surely press the issue. Strange thst they FIA inspected free car but didn't find the issue RB were querying. Maybe it both passes the load test and bends at loads grater than the test load.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,589 ✭✭✭✭ mickdw

    Those static load tests are not fit for purpose.

    Surely with the great minds of F1, they are building in structures into wing supports that are effected by airflow, for example wing support being twisted slightly by airflow and therefore performing slightly differently to the static case to allow deflection.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Frank Bullitt

    I think RB are just playing the long game in a way. The load tests also don't test the main plane of the rear wing, I believe. They just press down on the upper element where the DRS is.

    If they can press the case, I would say they are waiting until the next race perhaps. Jeddah looks very fast to the benefit might be huge, if RB can disrupt it then it would make sense to protest there.

    As much action off track as there is on.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,345 ✭✭✭ recyclebin

    There has already been a precedent about flexing wings. Teams were given loads of time to fix it and not penalised.

    Surely in this day and age, the FIA can calculate the real world loads and apply these during static testing.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Frank Bullitt

    These are the marks that the RB team are saying shows the main plane is flexing at speed. There isn't a test for this right now...can of worms about to be opened?

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,751 ✭✭✭ quokula

    Now that it’s becoming very clear from the photos how Mercedes cheated to gain that unprecedented level of top speed advantage, something has to be done to preserve the integrity of the sport surely. How can that result stand, when you look at something like Hungary where Vettel was completely disqualified for a small issue with fuel measurement that wasn’t intentional and conferred no benefit.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭ Killinator

    You were complaining previously about Merc trying to win off track by complaining about Red Bull, perfectly happy though for Red Bull to benefit from complaints.

    RB weren't disqualified earlier in the season due to their flexi wings so why should Merc be now. IF it's unfair then ban it and move on, same deal RB got, but then you aren't interested in what's fair, only what benefits Max/RB

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,589 ✭✭✭✭ mickdw

    Personally, I think the prescribed tests should be announced with any design changes pre season and no changes be allowed to those tests until next reg change.

    A team that then designs a wing to stand up to the test yet moves at opportune times should then be applauded.

    What we have now is a political mess. Some designs resulting in new tests being brought in mid season to outlaw them. Other being declared legal. It's a mess and open to question from fans and teams alike.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,079 ✭✭✭ Captain_Crash

    These are two seperate things tho. The RB wing was designed in line with the regs and passed the load test that existed at the time so there was nothing wrong with it! Merc complained about it still being too bendy and the loading on the test was increased, meaning RB had to change the wing design in order to pass the updated test! Make of that what you will!

    In this case it‘a been alleged that the lower portion of the horizontal fixture on the Mercedes wing flexes…. And that’s not allowed! So if that’s the case, the wing was designed using illegal specs to begin with. That makes it a very different scanerio to the RB bendy wing issue and certainly more serious if indeed what’s what Merc done (and I'm not suggesting it is… it’s just what to our knowledge has been alleged)

    For clarity, the RB wing issue was the whole wing fixture itself bending back under load which was allowed at the time (and still is today, just the stress test loading has increased).

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,102 ✭✭✭✭ AMKC

    I fir one do not want to see Lewis win an 8th WDC this year. I think Max and Red Bull have been great and really stepped up to the plate they have really upped there game and I hope they win the QDC and even the WCC as well. Would be delighted. I also do not want to see this hyprid era having only Mercedes as the sole winner.

    So what if George had to play second fiddle or back marker next year. He is young. He has got plenty of time to become a WDC especially in a team with Mercedes resources. Lewis will get bored eventually and leave. If George puts it up to him next year even better but I really hope that Alpine, Ferrari, Mclaren and more can all be really competitive next year and we get a great season one even better than 2012 with at least 10 different winners maybe more next year. I hope it works out for Haas because if they not they may pack up there bags and leave.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,345 ✭✭✭ recyclebin

    Are you for real? Red Bull and what Mercedes have been alleged to be doing are exactly the same thing. Designing something to passes the static tests but they know full well that in race trim they will exceed the technical regulations.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,345 ✭✭✭ recyclebin

    Red Bulls wing was not within the regulations. It passed the static tests which were not fit to test the actual regulations. Hence they now also use video evidence to help police it out on track.

    There is a theory that Mercedes flexing wing is out of sight of the cameras so they will just have to change the static tests again.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,307 ✭✭✭✭ flazio

    I know it's not in the rules at the moment but I wonder would it be beneficial to the FIA if they had the power to pick a random team a half hour before FP1 so they don't have time to cheat, make them install those aerodynamic rake things and run a shakedown lap with the data going to the stewards instead of the team. A sort of advanced weigh bridge so to speak.

  • Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭ thefa

    Russell will probably have been better off plying his trade with Williams than some of the young drivers around his age. Compare him to Albon and Gasly who done, at a minimum, short-term damage to their opportunities by being rushed into a top car early on. Russell has been maturing away at Williams and some of his mistakes would have been faced far more scrutiny had they been at Merc. As you said, many years ahead of him and not every young talent needs to be parachuted into a top drive in the first couple of years.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,102 ✭✭✭✭ AMKC

    Ah ye but I think he has done as much as he can do and spent enough time at Williams besides who would refuse on opportunity to go to a team like Mercedes even if there is a 7 time WDC champion there.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,063 ✭✭✭ smurfjed


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,345 ✭✭✭ recyclebin

    Mercedes and Hamilton look strong but Verstappen must be slight favourite going into last two races. Verstappen could still be crowned champion with a race to go wheareas Hamilton has still to make up that gap. If Hamilton wins the next race then he will be favourite going into last race. Lots could still happen.

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,125 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09

    You're e right but recent history isnt in Max's favourite. Hamilton would have to DNF for that to happen and I can't remember the last time that happened and I certainly wouldn't want to bet on it. Reliability has been excellent this year in general, as tends to happen when a formal is as old as this current one.

    As a poster said above better to have Hamilton's car advantage than Max's points advantage.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,307 ✭✭✭✭ flazio

    He must have had at least one since Malaysia 2016 right?

This discussion has been closed.