You're Upper Class When

silliussoddius

When you take a helicopter to the Galway Races.

Wibbs

mariaalice wrote: »

A journalist who grew up in a small village in the west of Ireland wrote a brilliant article on that subject and her bewilderment at the petty snobbery of Dublin, which she could never get a handle on because where she grew up everyone mixed with everyone else.

I'd say a lot of that is as Shesty notes a general insecurity about their backgrounds. Like S points out most people living in say Dublin* where this stuff is at a peak are a couple of generations away from either rural or inner city and often "poor" backgrounds and if they've come out of that they want to establish a distance in their new lives. The ones still in that keep their own distance too. Add in a general insecurity that can be found in the Irish psyche and you get this chip on the shoulder thing. Look how quickly we change our accents from generation to generation, even sometimes within one and how those accents denote a common group and are often exaggerated for effect.

Outside of a middle class urban protestant accent and all the rural accents, we went from a generalised "proper" and urban soft Irish accent AKA Gay Byrne Eamonn Andrews(both went to Synge Street school, which was a working class boys school) and Terry Wogan which evolved in the 30's and 40's. Then the Dort accent started to kick in around the 70's which was a mangling of that older accent and a received English one. Latterly that's become more Americanised and softer and spread throughout Dublin suburbia. Now you can certainly see evolution of accents elsewhere along class lines, but ours move more across class lines.







*my forebears are Dubs going way back, like 18th century kinda thing, but growing up among my friends I can recall only 2 who were close to being similar. Most of my friend's parents were from rural Ireland and had moved up to Dublin in the 50's and 60's. A couple of the more insecure ones sent their daughters to elocution lessons to be sure. Not sons oddly enough.

Surreptitious

I went to elocution lessons as a child. My mother was convinced there was something wrong with my speech. I went on then to do speech and drama. We were poor as feck. I'm wondering did the nuns do it for free but knowing nuns they probably didn't.

silliussoddius

I wouldn't romanticize rural Ireland too much, I think there can be an element of snobbery there. You only have to look at what happened during the septic tiger, it was there just festering below the surface ready to explode in all its tackiness.

Pkiernan

You're upper class when Clontarf is your Darndale.

thejuggler

I think one indicator would be doing your entire weekly supermarket shop in M&S (or sending the housekeeper to do it).

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

You have a railway running around your estate.

Like Shanganagh ?

Capt'n Midnight

There's no twit like an upper class twit.

BattleCorp

Surreptitious wrote: »

I went to elocution lessons as a child. My mother was convinced there was something wrong with my speech. I went on then to do speech and drama. We were poor as feck. I'm wondering did the nuns do it for free but knowing nuns they probably didn't.

I did the speech lessons too. Didn't work mind. I still sound like a complete bogger.

the purple tin

You have a private 'family church' on your property.

Also your people get buried on your property and not in the local graveyard. You will have a pet cemetary as well for horses and dogs.

Mad_maxx

You drive a blue landrover defender from 1981 but it's in mint condition

Mad_maxx

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd say a lot of that is as Shesty notes a general insecurity about their backgrounds. Like S points out most people living in say Dublin* where this stuff is at a peak are a couple of generations away from either rural or inner city and often "poor" backgrounds and if they've come out of that they want to establish a distance in their new lives. The ones still in that keep their own distance too. Add in a general insecurity that can be found in the Irish psyche and you get this chip on the shoulder thing. Look how quickly we change our accents from generation to generation, even sometimes within one and how those accents denote a common group and are often exaggerated for effect.

Outside of a middle class urban protestant accent and all the rural accents, we went from a generalised "proper" and urban soft Irish accent AKA Gay Byrne Eamonn Andrews(both went to Synge Street school, which was a working class boys school) and Terry Wogan which evolved in the 30's and 40's. Then the Dort accent started to kick in around the 70's which was a mangling of that older accent and a received English one. Latterly that's become more Americanised and softer and spread throughout Dublin suburbia. Now you can certainly see evolution of accents elsewhere along class lines, but ours move more across class lines.







*my forebears are Dubs going way back, like 18th century kinda thing, but growing up among my friends I can recall only 2 who were close to being similar. Most of my friend's parents were from rural Ireland and had moved up to Dublin in the 50's and 60's. A couple of the more insecure ones sent their daughters to elocution lessons to be sure. Not sons oddly enough.

What is a middle class " urban Protestant accent " ?

Is it more Cathal o Shannon or Penolope Keith ?

Wibbs

Mad_maxx wrote: »

What is a middle class " urban Protestant accent " ?

Is it more Cathal o Shannon or Penolope Keith ?

Far more Penelope Keith. Think Henry Mountcharles type of accent. Cathal's accent was very much that old style Gay Byrne etc urban soft Irish accent that was the goto for RTE until the 80's when more of the pirate radio guys moved into RTE so you got to hear less "polished" accents.

railer201

Mad_maxx wrote: »

What is a middle class " urban Protestant accent " ?

Is it more Cathal o Shannon or Penolope Keith ?

When your house goes on fire you say 'Oh Ho-lay Jee-sus' instead of 'Holy Jay-sus.'

monkeynuz

thejuggler wrote: »

I think one indicator would be doing your entire weekly supermarket shop in M&S (or sending the housekeeper to do it).

Not really, well not since they began accepting credit cards and any scum could shop there.....

monkeynuz

Mad_maxx wrote: »

You drive a blue landrover defender from 1981 but it's in mint condition

No, definitely not mint, just one stage away from hanging on by a thread.

monkeynuz

the purple tin wrote: »

You have a private 'family church' on your property.

Also your people get buried on your property and not in the local graveyard. You will have a pet cemetary as well for horses and dogs.

An old school friend of mine has that and better, they also have the parish church on their land 600 feet from the house. They also have a family pew in the church.

bertiebomber

A defender 10/12 years old now a collectors item. The new defender is awful no character like the original.

bertiebomber

You wear 16in" string of real inherited pearls that had to be dived for bu humans not created with a bit of grit, you wear real Hermes scarves 40+ year old ones, you wear appropriate clothes to every occasion never attention seeking ones & always sensible shoes.

Panthro

Viscount biscuits!

StevenToast

You have a west brit mindset

Finty Lemon

College summer holidays are spent visiting foreign capitals, not working in a chicken factory

bertiebomber

no they are spent in the families Tuscan villa with a handful of chums from your college that you like.

tommyombomb

Finty Lemon wrote: »

College summer holidays are spent visiting foreign capitals, not working in a chicken factory

And you cant understand why people dont like travelling or take a year out to travel the world.

railer201

When you can read all about yourself in Burkes !

Mad_maxx

Wibbs wrote: »

Far more Penelope Keith. Think Henry Mountcharles type of accent. Cathal's accent was very much that old style Gay Byrne etc urban soft Irish accent that was the goto for RTE until the 80's when more of the pirate radio guys moved into RTE so you got to hear less "polished" accents.

Lord Henry Mount Charles is upper class

i very much like Cathal o Shannons accent , i have to say

Mad_maxx

monkeynuz wrote: »

No, definitely not mint, just one stage away from hanging on by a thread.

No , they mind stuff well and keep it for two generations minimum , beit a car or a coat

Mad_maxx

i know of a protestant family who held their sons wedding in a large barn on the farm , now thats upper middle class

they were so secure in their ways , they effectively tied the knot in a hay shed

Capt'n Midnight

A crèche is two cars colliding and sex are for storing flour.

whisky_galore

Mad_maxx wrote: »

i know of a protestant family who held their sons wedding in a large barn on the farm , now thats upper middle class

they were so secure in their ways , they effectively tied the knot in a hay shed

That's funny when the thinkers have the fairytale weddings like royalty.