Ag Climatise Document

Banana Republic 1

Mooooo wrote: »

I'm afraid the same as I ask most people in an area suggesting or selling something, give proven examples of how whatever it is will save more, assuming we are not doing it already off course

I’m not sure are you agreeing with me or saying that the people you’ve heard similar from are snake oil men .

alps

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Speaking as an Agri engineer it’s high time fellas embraced technology onto their farms and catch up with the rest of the western world. It will cost money but it’ll save more.

You're half right anyway...

richie123

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Moorepark are developing a satellite grass measuring system
Its a few years off but its on the way

That's already up and running in New Zealand ...space I think it's called.

alps

richie123 wrote: »

That's already up and running in New Zealand ...space I think it's called.

Are we going to be looking a t a box to tick on the BP form that allowes the department to measure the grass for you, and give you an input allowance based on this.?

alps

alps wrote: »

You're half right anyway...

Yeah, but just on the final sentence.

Banana Republic 1

alps wrote: »

You're half right anyway...

Which Half?

Banana Republic 1

richie123 wrote: »

That's already up and running in New Zealand ...space I think it's called.

Like I said earlier

Speaking as an Agri engineer it’s high time fellas embraced technology onto their farms and catch up with the rest of the western world. It will cost money but it’ll save more.

__________________

tanko

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Which Half?

The "it will cost money" half i'd say.

endainoz

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Speaking as an Agri engineer it’s high time fellas embraced technology onto their farms and catch up with the rest of the western world. It will cost money but it’ll save more.

If you look through these forums you'll see that many posters here have indeed embraced technology as you so graciously put it. There are plenty of innovative farmers out there.

I'm all for new technology and advancement to make things easier for farmers, but "speaking as a farmer" looking down your nose at the rest of us making out were a third world country won't do you any favours here lad.....

Timmaay

endainoz wrote: »

If you look through these forums you'll see that many posters here have indeed embraced technology as you so graciously put it. There are plenty of innovative farmers out there.

I'm all for new technology and advancement to make things easier for farmers, but "speaking as a farmer" looking down your nose at the rest of us making out were a third world country won't do you any favours here lad.....

As an engineer my self, who openly embraces technology if it can help me, I have to say I've got alot more bang for buck by sticking to KISS and simplifying everything here (biggest one was going from ayr calving HOs to compact spring calving). I remember in the early days, when we had very poor fertility rates, I tried to convince my dad that we should buy a full heatime system, he thankfully said no lol, nowadays I do 3weeks of AI and use like 30e worth of tailpaint every year.

emaherx

Timmaay wrote: »

As an engineer my self, who openly embraces technology if it can help me, I have to say I've got alot more bang for buck by sticking to KISS and simplifying everything here (biggest one was going from ayr calving HOs to compact spring calving). I remember in the early days, when we had very poor fertility rates, I tried to convince my dad that we should buy a full heatime system, he thankfully said no lol, nowadays I do 3weeks of AI and use like 30e worth of tailpaint every year.

Sometimes I think more of us on here are engineers than aren't

richie123

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Like I said earlier


__________________

Yes but it's costs an absolute fortune
It's years away before it becomes viable.
Most farmers are decent enough to measure grass by eye especially good dairy men where it's more important.
Walking covers each week and observing it is and knowing where your gonna have surpluses is better than doing nothing.

alps

Farms that measure grow more grass than those that don't..

Indisputable fact...


Not sure how they know!!

Mooooo

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

I’m not sure are you agreeing with me or saying that the people you’ve heard similar from are snake oil men .

There is a lot of stuff put out there as better technology etc but a lot of the time it adds costs that simply isn't recuperated on farm. More jobs for lads outside the farm gate but more cost inside. Hence when anything is out there a proper ROI has to be shown.
Most lads have no issue trying anything technology wise but it has to give a tangible financial return to the farmer. Margins are tight enough as it is

_Brian

alps wrote: »

Farms that measure grow more grass than those that don't..

Indisputable fact...


Not sure how they know!!

It’s a repeated outcome across all industries. If you want to improve something the first move is to quantify it efficiently.

Say my name

_Brian wrote: »

It’s a repeated outcome across all industries. If you want to improve something the first move is to quantify it efficiently.

The trouble is basing grass purely on metrics of quantity can lead to ignorance of other elements relating to health, mineral status, soil nitrogen fixation.
It can lead to a race for quantity over quality and tie you further into secondary ag industry dependence.

_Brian

Say my name wrote: »

The trouble is basing grass purely on metrics of quantity can lead to ignorance of other elements relating to health, mineral status, soil nitrogen fixation.
It can lead to a race for quantity over quality and tie you further into secondary ag industry dependence.

Agree completely

You want to improve these?? Start measuring them, same principle applies.

emaherx

_Brian wrote: »

Agree completely

You want to improve these?? Start measuring them, same principle applies.

data is useful, you can do alot with data

But then again

“You can have data without information, but you cannot have information without data.” – Daniel Keys Moran, an American computer programmer and science fiction writer.

or

“If we have data, let’s look at data. If all we have are opinions, let’s go with mine.” – Jim Barksdale, former Netscape CEO

yosemitesam1

_Brian wrote: »

Agree completely

You want to improve these?? Start measuring them, same principle applies.

If only things were that simple. The bulk of biological type farming will always be more of an art than a science. It simply wouldn't be possible to measure or isolate a large amount of the variables let alone interpret the data generated.

Say my name

_Brian wrote: »

Agree completely

You want to improve these?? Start measuring them, same principle applies.

It's not always as simple though.

Every single person on the planet has a different definition of health and what constitutes health in a plant,animal, human and back to soil. Companies sell products to right one or so they think and it has knock on effects on the others. Sometimes for decades.

Then you have the cost of testing which is just a snapshot in time. A useful one but..

It's the eyes and feet on the ground and the thinking back months later of that eureka moment that usually mean all.

Procastination..:D

emaherx

Say my name wrote: »

It's not always as simple though.

Every single person on the planet has a different definition of health and what constitutes health in a plant,animal, human and back to soil. Companies sell products to right one or so they think and it has knock on effects on the others. Sometimes for decades.

Then you have the cost of testing which is just a snapshot in time. A useful one but..

It's the eyes and feet on the ground and the thinking back months later of that eureka moment that usually mean all.

Procastination..:D

Having data though certainly helps to think back and confirm those Eureka moments. We'd never get anywhere or confirm anything without some form of data collection.

_Brian

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

If only things were that simple. The bulk of biological type farming will always be more of an art than a science. It simply wouldn't be possible to measure or isolate a large amount of the variables let alone interpret the data generated.

Say my name wrote: »

It's not always as simple though.

Every single person on the planet has a different definition of health and what constitutes health in a plant,animal, human and back to soil. Companies sell products to right one or so they think and it has knock on effects on the others. Sometimes for decades.

Then you have the cost of testing which is just a snapshot in time. A useful one but..

It's the eyes and feet on the ground and the thinking back months later of that eureka moment that usually mean all.

Procastination..:D

Because something isn't simple doesn't mean it can't be done..

Making a start is whats important... Individuals can walk their own farm and know what's going on for sure, that's what we do here on our small scale, but if were going to try and compare across farms and areas this is when a bit more of a quantifiable approach is needed..

Anyhow, my point was, if you want to improve something you need to find a way to quantify it, otherwise you could just be a busy fool and change nothing.

On a separate topic I've seen case studies where the act of measuring employees work alone, with no other intervention causes an increase in output, its one reason why factories just love metrics and KPI's

Say my name

_Brian wrote: »

Because something isn't simple doesn't mean it can't be done..

Making a start is whats important... Individuals can walk their own farm and know what's going on for sure, that's what we do here on our small scale, but if were going to try and compare across farms and areas this is when a bit more of a quantifiable approach is needed..

Anyhow, my point was, if you want to improve something you need to find a way to quantify it, otherwise you could just be a busy fool and change nothing.

What happens if the good guys that are held as the poster boys turn out to be the bad guys and vice versa?

It's a main reason why humans have evolved to be successful is that diverse roads were allowed be taken and free choice allowed.
When you restrict options you steer that group in the one way and success is less likely. Success for who steers the group and what they want but success for humankind no.

The tillage sector and what happened with industry claiming complete control of the sector comes to mind. The farmer and consumer lost.

_Brian

Say my name wrote: »

What happens if the good guys that are held as the poster boys turn out to be the bad guys and vice versa?

It's a main reason why humans have evolved to be successful is that diverse roads were allowed be taken and free choice allowed.
When you restrict options you steer that group in the one way and success is less likely. Success for who steers the group and what they want but success for humankind no.

The tillage sector and what happened with industry claiming complete control of the sector comes to mind. The farmer and consumer lost.

Like it or not under initiatives like the Ag Climtise there will be measuring and reporting from farms.. Its a fact, we can't say we're doing better without providing numbers.. Be that less N spread, more biodiversity recorded, more grass grown naturally etc etc..

Say my name

emaherx wrote: »

Having data though certainly helps to think back and confirm those Eureka moments. We'd never get anywhere or confirm anything without some form of data collection.

Farmers collect data everyday.
We're up to our eyes on grass colour, grass quantity, brix, after grazing height, cow condition, cow contentness, milk yield, fat, protein, scc, tbc, slurry colour, slurry smell, grass growth, slurry consistency, soil colour, worm numbers, soil dept.
All this occurs everyday. It's when the farmer collects that information gives it someone else they sell that information on to a company and that company sells it back to the farmer with that company's plan is what most have issue with.

There's farmers doing year plans and buying their inputs based on what companies are telling them for the next year. It takes away farmer autonomy and chance to reduce their inputs based on day to day management and those eyes on the ground. Any way tangent gone off on..

richie123

_Brian wrote: »

It’s a repeated outcome across all industries. If you want to improve something the first move is to quantify it efficiently.

Not as simple as that.
those that measure will be horsing out fert /slurry and soil tests done ect.
Paddock system, troughs in all the right places strip wires proper roadways good fencing grazing paddocks at right time etc.
Without doing all those things first,
measuring grass is pointless.

Banana Republic 1

Timmaay wrote: »

As an engineer my self, who openly embraces technology if it can help me, I have to say I've got alot more bang for buck by sticking to KISS and simplifying everything here (biggest one was going from ayr calving HOs to compact spring calving). I remember in the early days, when we had very poor fertility rates, I tried to convince my dad that we should buy a full heatime system, he thankfully said no lol, nowadays I do 3weeks of AI and use like 30e worth of tailpaint every year.

I once researched the various pros and cons of a colostrum management system for a company I worked for. At the time Moore park poopooed the idea but it was established as a genuine method elsewhere, Europe, US and New Zealand. I was already cynical about the sector here, I mean farming in general, and that didn’t help.

alps

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

If only things were that simple. The bulk of biological type farming will always be more of an art than a science. It simply wouldn't be possible to measure or isolate a large amount of the variables let alone interpret the data generated.

Then you cant sell it as a concept....it cant be taught

_Brian

richie123 wrote: »

Not as simple as that.
those that measure will be horsing out fert /slurry and soil tests done ect.
Paddock system, troughs in all the right places strip wires proper roadways good fencing grazing paddocks at right time etc.
Without doing all those things first,
measuring grass is pointless.

I didn’t say simple, I said possible.

_Brian

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

If only things were that simple. The bulk of biological type farming will always be more of an art than a science. It simply wouldn't be possible to measure or isolate a large amount of the variables let alone interpret the data generated.

Yea but we can’t argue that measuring some of the activities isn’t possible. That’s like saying science is pointless let’s call everything “an art”