10 VW Polo - timing chain stretched

wholesome19

Hi everyone,

Hope I am in the right forum. Looking for help with a recent issue I am having with my 10-year-old VW polo (107 thousand km). The timing chain has stretched, and the cylinders/pistons damaged. Complete disaster. I did the whole journey with the car, bought it from VW approved garage, and serviced it all the way through with VW approved dealer.

I have contacted Volkswagon they don't care and my dealership is saying that's my only option will cost 2250 to repair, and my car might still might not work which I have to take responsibility for. If I do a trade in, it's only worth €1500.

One of my friends is a mechanic and he thinks the dealer should be fixing it for free/cheaper and that they should stand over the car. He reckons that I should seek legal advice on it as the responsibility lies with them. (he could fix it but said it would be a waste as I have full-service history with VW)

So my question is does anyone have any idea of timing chains and if he is right that I should fight it? Any advice would be welcomed!

colm_mcm

Dealership has no liability or aren’t obliged to do anything on a 10 year old car.

Cheapest option would be to get an independent mechanic to do a replacement engine.

This is not an uncommon issue on these sadly.

Whatever you do, don’t do the €1500 trade in option.

wholesome19

Thanks for coming back to me, so even though I have been with them from the start - they still aren't obliged to the car.

Do you think it would be worth asking them to match a quote from an independent mechanic? I would like to keep it with VW if possible.

Also definitely not doing trade in...do you know if car still valuable if independent mechanic was to fix it (apologies for the millions of Qs)

colm_mcm

Car is worth the same as it was last month once it’s fixed.

If garage is doing the work for €2250, I doubt that’s for a whole new engine.
Try and establish exactly what they’re doing for the money.

Where in the country are you? If in Dublin try the likes of IVI and price a used engine plus new timing chain.

Toyotafanboi

Unfortunately, that is a popular issue with those Polos, which makes finding a second hand engine very hard, I think your best option is to get the current engine refurbished, whether that by with VW or another provider.

It's disappointing to see this with people who have stayed the course, bought from a dealer and serviced with a dealer right through. If you've been working with the same dealer all along i'd try and put that case to them locally and see they offer the repair for a more competitive price. Dealers can authorise goodwill themselves up to cars 7 years of age but after that point all goodwill is cut off, bar local discount.

Responsibility landing with the dealer is untrue and going legal is an utter waste of time, it's 10 years old, it's your baby. It doesn't take away from the unfortunate nature of things, you done things right in the hope of reliability and it's let you down, that and you'd like to think a chain would last more than 10 years/100k kms. That being said, it is what it is now.

Agree with Colm, trading in wouldn't be the best move here financially.

I would push the dealer for a better price.

colm_mcm

I’d be a bit concerned by their assertion that it may not work, and if that’s the case that it’s tough luck.

Surely you’d get a working engine plus a new chain for less? I know they’re hard enough got.

Toyotafanboi

It sounds like they're saying there been valve/ piston contact and they wont know the full extent until they take the cylinder head off, so the quote may rise.

They're a hard engine to get, lots of subtle variations too. Whatever about a recon engine, a used one might be no better ans still set you back over €1k.

wholesome19

I got a price of a second hand VW polo 09 engine €1500, but I felt that was taking on a risk. - as that could potentially fail & have other issues.

I have a quote from a mechanic who fixes up old cars so he seems to have access to timing chains, said he will fix the lot cylinder, pistons, and chains. Do you think it's worth seeing if they would match his price €1200?

sumo12

wholesome19 wrote: »

Hi everyone,



One of my friends is a mechanic and he thinks the dealer should be fixing it for free

One of my all time favourite motor trade lines...

Toyotafanboi

See the other side of it is (and i'm not saying go with the main dealer) with a reasonably intricate and invasive job like this you dont want to start a race to the bottom with prices. You'll always find someone who can do it cheaper but you want someone competent working on the car and you want good quality parts used. That way when the job is done the car could last another ten years, as it is relatively low mileage and with a main dealer history i'd expect the rest of it to be in good shape.

wholesome19

sumo12 wrote: »

One of my all time favourite motor trade lines...

Haha true story!

wholesome19

Yeah totally, I agree, and to be honest its not a race to the cheapest. - it really isn't...I just want to make sure I'm not being ripped off as I am getting told so many different things.

What I want to really know if the dealer is overcharging for something that should be more cost-effective?

at9qu5vp0wcix7

A little bit unrelated but were there any warning signs, eg whining, rough startup/idle etc?

colm_mcm

Karson Thundering Zebra wrote: »

A little bit unrelated but were there any warning signs, eg whining, rough startup/idle etc?

They all do that.

wholesome19

Karson Thundering Zebra wrote: »

A little bit unrelated but were there any warning signs, eg whining, rough startup/idle etc?

No warning signs at all -which is the worst part, the engine light came in and then the engine started shaking and that was it.

colm_mcm

No catastrophic banging etc?

andrew1300r

Sorry to hear your about your problem but it's totally understandable for a main VW dealer not to entertain you with a 10 year old car. Why should your problems become theirs ??
Just suck it up & get the engine repaired .

mickdw

I dont know anything about those engines but is it possible it just jumped a tooth and needs chain and f all else?

Toyotafanboi

Unlikely, they eat chains for breakfast. Sometimes they skip teeth after the oil is changed and oil pressure drops for a second and even that does them in at times.

mickdw

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Unlikely, they eat chains for breakfast. Sometimes they skip teeth after the oil is changed and oil pressure drops for a second and even that does them in at times.

Jesus. Wouldnt fancy working on too many of them

wholesome19

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Unlikely, they eat chains for breakfast. Sometimes they skip teeth after the oil is changed and oil pressure drops for a second and even that does them in at times.

What does that mean? That its fxxkd?

The Continental Op

I looked into buying one of these about 12 months ago and decided against it. From what I read back then I seem to remember there was for a time an upgraded replacement chain that could be installed. The original was a single chain, I believe there is or at least was a double chain available as a spare part?

mickdw

The Continental Op wrote: »

I looked into buying one of these about 12 months ago and decided against it. From what I read back then I seem to remember there was for a time an upgraded replacement chain that could be installed. The original was a single chain, I believe there is or at least was a double chain available as a spare part?

Really manufacturers shouldnt get away with it but at that kind of age there is little to do.
My own audi tfsi needed a chain. It had oil changes on the button its entire life with the correct oil and still needed a chain at about 130k miles. Id heard about the chain issues but had convinced myself that a properly looked after one wouldnt go bad.

Detritus70

When it comes to fixing the engine, the question is can it be fixed?
There could be damage to the head, valves, cylinder walls, pistons, con rods, etc...
I would be weary of anyone promising to fix it for €1200, especially sight unseen.

FGR

Is this the reason why VAG didn't go all out and switch all of their engines from belts to chains?

It's disappointing to hear about this OP and I hope you get it resolved by a proper tech without breaking the bank.

User1998

OP I bought a 2010 Polo with 110k miles for €1,300 with the same issue as yours. I bought a replacement 2012 engine with 50k miles for €900 and had it fitted for €300. I also put a new timing chain on the replacement engine and changed the oil, the mechanic didn’t charge me for labour for that because the engine was already out of the car, so that was another €250 for parts I think. So about €1,500 or so all in.

wholesome19

Thanks so much for all your help and sharing your knowledge.

Totally agree on the engine as a good option - would be nervous the same could happen to it.

I know I'm moaning here again, but I can't get over the fact that after 10 years of proper approved service and lifecycle it breaks and Volkswagon doesn't give a f* it really just doesn't sit right with me that they are getting away with it.

Like my argument is, that if it was a belt a clutch (they go in cars. - so you just fix them) annoying but it happens. However, there was no I could have fixed this as its meant to be a lifetime part - yet I later find out after it happens that there is an issue with them?! Thats not right that VW arent standing over this.

Like it's somewhat ok for me as I'm only young but what about an elderly lady who buys this thinking it will do them through retirement, and then they get shafted with this cost when they're on the pension. It just doesn't seem right that VW gets away with this!

Also on the topic of reliability - if this was to go on the M50 - would my life have been in danger?! None of this seems right

mickdw

wholesome19 wrote: »

Thanks so much for all your help and sharing your knowledge.

Totally agree on the engine as a good option - would be nervous the same could happen to it.

I know I'm moaning here again, but I can't get over the fact that after 10 years of proper approved service and lifecycle it breaks and Volkswagon doesn't give a f* it really just doesn't sit right with me that they are getting away with it.

Like my argument is, that if it was a belt a clutch (they go in cars. - so you just fix them) annoying but it happens. However, there was no I could have fixed this as its meant to be a lifetime part - yet I later find out after it happens that there is an issue with them?! Thats not right that VW arent standing over this.

Like it's somewhat ok for me as I'm only young but what about an elderly lady who buys this thinking it will do them through retirement, and then they get shafted with this cost when they're on the pension. It just doesn't seem right that VW gets away with this!

Also on the topic of reliability - if this was to go on the M50 - would my life have been in danger?! None of this seems right

You are right. When chains were found to give trouble, they should have started changing these chains if not as a recall, then during scheduled servicing or at a very minimal, they should have advised of a service interval for the chain as opposed to just allowing failures at customer cost.

Someone with a 5 year old one would be well advised to take a case. At the age of yours, i dont see much point.

wholesome19

mickdw wrote: »

You are right. When chains were found to give trouble, they should have started changing these chains if not as a recall, then during scheduled servicing or at a very minimal, they should have advised of a service interval for the chain as opposed to just allowing failures at customer cost.

Someone with a 5 year old one would be well advised to take a case. At the age of yours, i don't see much point.

Yeah, and to be honest I know it's an old car I get that, but even to offer the parts/stand over the repair of the car & I pay a contribution would be enough. I just think it's completely unfair that the whole car is gone and I'm left with a huge bill and Volkswagen get away with supplying faulty vehicles.

Toyotafanboi

It's a tought one. A bit of a cliche, but nothing lasts forever. 10 year old car breaks down. Sure if it was a mobile phone or a tv or a fridge freezer you'd say to yourself it's aged and it owes me little at this stage.

I do get your point though, i think as a general rule though cars are becoming less and less relaible and less built to last in general.

The manufacturer will not care after ten years though, if it has been a lesser amount of time they likely would have made a contribution to repair.

The Continental Op

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

It's a tought one. A bit of a cliche, but nothing lasts forever. 10 year old car breaks down. Sure if it was a mobile phone or a tv or a fridge freezer you'd say to yourself it's aged and it owes me little at this stage.

I do get your point though, i think as a general rule though cars are becoming less and less relaible and less built to last in general.

The manufacturer will not care after ten years though, if it has been a lesser amount of time they likely would have made a contribution to repair.

I think the OP's point is that if it was a know wear item and included as part of the service schedule then he'd have had it replaced whenever the service interval indicated.

At this stage its pretty obvious that the timing change on those cars is a service item and does need replacing. The only problem is no one knows how long they will last as I can remember reading of some going at less than 50k miles.

Toyotafanboi

I understand that but sure the flip side is if dealers were advising timing chains on Polos every second or third services, peoples "mechanic friends" would tell them chains are for life and VW are gouging for work. There's very little winning.

That and while i'd be the first to say they are a very populr fail item on those Polos, i'd say for every one that fails, dozens dont.

VW have seen a bit of sense and went back to belt on their newer stuff anyway.

wholesome19

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I understand that but sure the flip side is if dealers were advising timing chains on Polos every second or third services, peoples "mechanic friends" would tell them chains are for life and VW are gouging for work. There's very little winning.

That and while i'd be the first to say they are a very populr fail item on those Polos, i'd say for every one that fails, dozens dont.

VW have seen a bit of sense and went back to belt on their newer stuff anyway.

I get that they can't win, but surely they should offer some help. Like I was told that if the garage can't repair...I have to take responsibility for that which is shocking!

Like if this was a straight forward fix, I wouldnt be giving out ya know. I'd just do it, like a clutch or whatever those things..

I just think Volkswagen need to take some ownership to this...or am I nuts thinking that?

greasepalm

All those 3 cylinder engines gave issues even burning oil as top of piston would be wet and plugs partially fouled+ different badge on another maker like seat etc

FGR

Am I right in saying that many of these newer engines were designed and introduced in order to improve emissions for Europe and other markets?

I know it's probably not the best analogy but, like when introducing the CO2 tax system; why couldn't the powers that be look further into the future and see the benefits of maintaining tried and tested engines? The naturally aspirated petrol engines and 1.9 TDIs may have become boring in the scheme of things but they definitely did their job and did it well in terms of reliability. Had things been more gradual I have no doubt advancements would have been a little better tested and not resulted in these long term issues with stretching chains, dieselgate etc.

Not to mention no longer having the need to swap out engines in so many Polos/no doubt relegating many to the scrapheap.

Detritus70

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I understand that but sure the flip side is if dealers were advising timing chains on Polos every second or third services, peoples "mechanic friends" would tell them chains are for life and VW are gouging for work. There's very little winning.

That and while i'd be the first to say they are a very populr fail item on those Polos, i'd say for every one that fails, dozens dont.

VW have seen a bit of sense and went back to belt on their newer stuff anyway.

If that was Toyota, it would be tens of thousands...

Toyotafanboi

20 years ago, probably.

TheW1zard

I didnt think timing chains were lifetime parts? Is that true? I thought maybe double a belts mileage so 150kmiles or so.

bazz26

They are supposed to be designed to last the lifetime of the engine which is sort of true in that when the chain lets go or snaps that's usually the end of the engine too.

wholesome19

bazz26 wrote: »

They are supposed to be designed to last the lifetime of the engine which is sort of true in that when the chain lets go or snaps that's usually the end of the engine too.

Lol, I guess 10 YEARS is a lifetime in Volkswagen land... (I still can't get over that this is acceptable/allowed in this day and age!)

FGR

wholesome19 wrote: »

Lol, I guess 10 YEARS is a lifetime in Volkswagen land... (I still can't get over that this is acceptable/allowed in this day and age!)

'lifetime' 'limitless' and 'unlimited' are terms that really should be banned unless the literal meaning is used - the consumer agency and comreg (for 'unlimited data') should come together and outright do this.

And ban these '39.99 for 6 months' adds where the smallprint shows the payments double/triple for the remainder of the contract.

As regards cars - they should clearly state what they intend the lifetime of an engine to be in order to use such a term.

Toyotafanboi

wholesome19 wrote: »

Lol, I guess 10 YEARS is a lifetime in Volkswagen land... (I still can't get over that this is acceptable/allowed in this day and age!)

What is your expectation though, just our of curiosity? That a manufacturer should stand over every product failure for every product they've every supplied for an indefinite period of time?

How are you getting on with the situation anyways, have you been pricing around with other repairers?

Never understood why chains became popular again.... A timing belt is a reasonable job on most 3 & 4 cylinder cars.

wholesome19

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

What is your expectation though, just our of curiosity? That a manufacturer should stand over every product failure for every product they've every supplied for an indefinite period of time?

How are you getting on with the situation anyways, have you been pricing around with other repairers?

Just for VW to offer some support or help, considering that I can't prevent this from happening and I bought my car with them/serviced with them every year.

Like I don't mind paying for the cost of replacing the timing chain etc...its the damage that it has caused to the pistons and cylinders that my problem is, because I have to pay the guts of potentially 2k-3.5k worth of damage when there was literally no way of me preventing this in the first place ya know what I mean.

Is that really unrealistic of me to expect help from them? Maybe it is, I don't know ...it just doesn't feel right...that this can happen when I haven't done anything wrong.

I got a quote from another guy for €1200 but not sure that will work, as there might be more damage than he is thinking. So at this stage, I'm thinking better the devil you know. It's heartbreaking all of this tho.

wholesome19

FGR wrote: »

'lifetime' 'limitless' and 'unlimited' are terms that really should be banned unless the literal meaning is used - the consumer agency and comreg (for 'unlimited data') should come together and outright do this.

And ban these '39.99 for 6 months' adds where the smallprint shows the payments double/triple for the remainder of the contract.

As regards cars - they should clearly state what they intend the lifetime of an engine to be in order to use such a term.

Yes agreed, these things are so misleading. If they were honest and just said lifetime means 8 years - then we recommend to replace it that would be grand, instead of this guessing game stuff where your car ends up in bits.

Also agree then need to do away with small print.

krissovo

wholesome19 wrote: »

Is that really unrealistic of me to expect help from them? Maybe it is, I don't know ...it just doesn't feel right...that this can happen when I haven't done anything wrong.

Yes it is unreasonable, the warranty period is clear by the manufacturers and 10 years is a long time.

greasepalm

Even after 4 years all you will get is 2 fingers as they dont want to know.

mickdw

Some here will say you have cover for 6 years but easier said than actually get it.

Detritus70

If something fails unexpectetly after ten years and it's kind of unusual, I wouldn't expect any manufacturer to stump up anything for that.
I dare say, like the BMW 2 liter diesel engines, this is a bad design, destined to fail and not fit for purpose. There should have been a recall.
This is just the manufacturer trying to save a few quid by denying the problem and refusing to do anything about it and f*ck the customer.
If there is no goodwill forthcoming for this turd of an engine (in general, not just in this case), all people in the know can do is to warn absolutely anyone they know who is thinking of buying a car with this engine.
It is a disgrace that manufacturers these days can think "we have a good reputation, so we just design and sell turds and the thousands that fail won't overly affect us, because people will buy them anyway".
Let's just hope that this will eventually catch up with German "Premium" brands, who seem to order their parts of Wish and Ali Baba.

Pasteur.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Dealership has no liability or aren’t obliged to do anything on a 10 year old car.

Cheapest option would be to get an independent mechanic to do a replacement engine.

This is not an uncommon issue on these sadly.

Whatever you do, don’t do the €1500 trade in option.

Is that because you're not actually getting 1500 off?

Or what's the reason

Timing belt

wholesome19 wrote: »

Just for VW to offer some support or help, considering that I can't prevent this from happening and I bought my car with them/serviced with them every year.

Like I don't mind paying for the cost of replacing the timing chain etc...its the damage that it has caused to the pistons and cylinders that my problem is, because I have to pay the guts of potentially 2k-3.5k worth of damage when there was literally no way of me preventing this in the first place ya know what I mean.

Is that really unrealistic of me to expect help from them? Maybe it is, I don't know ...it just doesn't feel right...that this can happen when I haven't done anything wrong.

I got a quote from another guy for €1200 but not sure that will work, as there might be more damage than he is thinking. So at this stage, I'm thinking better the devil you know. It's heartbreaking all of this tho.

It’s a known issue and 5 years ago VW did subsidise part of the cost. But on a ten year old car there is no hope....if the car has been serviced by vw all its life then the timing chain should have been replaced at some stage.

The reason for the cost is because no-one knows how much damage has been done till the look inside. You never know you might be lucky and chain just jumped a few teeth.