Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

thamus doku

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029026#Comment_124029026

I will leave it like this , the Irish first choice 3 loose heads and 3 hookers all are at Leinster. What does that achieve for Ireland and for Leinster.
It’s bad for Leinster too , I would even encourage the younger talent coming through for Leinster that dont want to play for another province to go abroad for a year or two.
for example Gus McCarthy is currently wasting his time at Leinster . If he don’t want to play with another Irish province then Leinster should loan him abroad to an English club for a year.

lawrencesummers

The assertion is not without foundation. He spend the first few weeks of the season selling a book FFs.

And he got his tactics against SA completely wrong, something that was highlighted tonight no end.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029274#Comment_124029274

and the blithe assertion that of course Farrell wouldn’t be watching a Munster game.

And people flip out when I suggest he isn’t liked

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029331#Comment_124029331

Last night told another chapeter in that story as well.

Irelands top 3 player in a lot of positions are all Leinster players, which is fine and testament to the work done underage, yet last night against the dragons (missing players to wales) it took Slimani and Snyman to come off the bench to win the game.

What does that say!

hogandrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029331#Comment_124029331

There's more to consider than rugby. Some are studying, moving abroad can incur a cost accommodation wise, it can have tax implications, they may have partners here, like being close to their family. That's not considering the fact, that they may feel they are good enough to start. Gus McCarthy as an example has had amazing progress, a number of Irish caps at his age, that's surely enough to make him think he can be first choice at his own province, even if other factors don't come into it.

hogandrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029341#Comment_124029341

Front row, won 5 scrum penalties, what other players are considered Irelands top 3 players? Jimmy o Brien? Curious to see who you think would be a better 3rd choice to any of them?

dublin49

Stormers reiterated tonight v Munster what the Boks clinically demonstrated last week,that with total scrum dominance you are more than likely going to win the game.Playing Wycherley in the row against Boks seems naive,we need some big arsed locks and quick or we are going to get regularly rolled over by the heavyweights.We have for some time hung on just about at scrum time but methinks we are getting left behind.Tonight away from home every Stormers scrum was more or less a peno,not sure how there wasnt any cards.From an Irish POV for me this is a more important issue than the recent line out difficulties.If scrums are starting to win games,we need to adapt or suffer.Mobility will need to be downgraded with more emphasis on heft.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029411#Comment_124029411

Top 3 players in Hooker, Props, 4 of the top 6 2nd row, then only one player plays 7 for Ireland. Top 5 back row players are, top 3 midfield, of the top 6 wingers 5 are Leinster of the top 5 15’s 4 are Leinster.

im not saying they don’t warrant their position, very few players outside Leinster deserve to be in the Irish team. But the second string Leinster team is suffering because it’s so far behind the first team and getting minimal opportunity to improve.

lawrencesummers

You can have one Gus McCarthy that stays and the other side of that coin the the Tadgh Beirne that moves.

lawrencesummers

Scrums are not “starting to win games”

it’s kinda always been a thing.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029440#Comment_124029440

Munster lineout was very good this evening and we also competed well in the maul. The scrum is now a major issue across all 4 provinces.

However, this for me is a issue with the way the game is being refereed. There's no point playing a hooker anymore because hooking the ball is no longer required. The scrum is a contest for possesion via the hook. After the hook it becomes a pushing contest. That is no longer the case. If the feed had to be straight then the whole thing would change immediately. Ireland would nearly be better off playing 3 props in the front row and having VdF throw to the lineout. Porter would be an ideal modern day hooker, can't not scrummage straight in the middle.

And yes, Edogbo if he was fit before now should have started tonight. Notice how Beirne went into lock when we had 7 in the scrum Tom Aherne's height makes it awkward for scrummaging. Tom was brilliant for us tonight but needs to focus on being a 4 now and add a few kilos.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029479#Comment_124029479

I agree it’s far from ideal.

What’s the solution?

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029573#Comment_124029573

Start with a new head coach anyway

hogandrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029479#Comment_124029479

So there's Boyle, McCarthy, clarkson are likely 3rd choice front row, and o Brien 3rd choice left wing. They struggle against a team missing 5 players to Wales. I don't get the issue? Who are you saying should be instead of them? How many Wales 3rd choice players are in the dragons squad?

Why isn't the picture that despite only having 3/4 x 3rd choice Ireland players players (and snyman) they can win away. Munster with a stacked team lost at home to stormers tonight, who were missing 5 players, why aren't we celebrating how good Leinsters backups did?

hogandrew

Not sure if this is to me, from a rugby point of view it's true, and of course from an Irish point of view, it makes sense (for someone to move), but for McCarthy, there's loads of reasons he might not want to.

Edit: replying to lawrencesummers

Clegg

We do seem to have a bit of a crisis in the front row. Leinster have been pretty good scrummaging wise this season no matter what configuration of props and hookers they've used. They appear to be the only province capable of producing decent scrummagers at URC level at least.

Can see maybe one of Boyle or McCarthy moved to another province to shore up the loose head side.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029606#Comment_124029606

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029606#Comment_124029606

probably because Leinster backups were heading for a beating only for Penny to dodge a red card and Slimani and Snyman to make the difference, for a team stacked with future Irish internationals it was poor.

Munster are on the crest of a new manager bounce, and a settled team still came up short against stormers. the decision to allow kleyn play for SA looks to have been a foolish one

hogandrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029712#Comment_124029712

Why? There's been loads of front row players moved in the past few years, who has benefited from it?

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029605#Comment_124029605

What would you like to see a new head coach do?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029822#Comment_124029822

More importantly.

WHO is this new coach going to be??

hogandrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124029782#Comment_124029782

Leinster backups? Your point was Irelands 3rd choice, have you named more than 4 Ireland 3rd choice?

How were they heading for a beating? They were 17-10 up. Do you really think dragons would have scored a try and more points in the time left?

Also, I don't agree (like the 4 officials) that the penny card was a penalty.

You're original point was taking a dig at the Ireland 3rd choice (well 3 or 4 of them) , narrowly beating dragons by 14 points, away, should south Africa be worried 1 out of 8 of their second choice only beat the drageons by 14?

Crowley, Casey, Beirne, 1st/2nd choice players got destroyed beat against a stormers side missing their internationals tonight. That's much more worrying

jimbob955

The solution is not to weaken Leinster. Humphrey’s said the same.
Gus and Boyle and Clarkson will all get plenty of game time the next few months, enough fo make the 6Nations squad.

the other provinces simply should have done more the last 10-15 years to produce more players. There has been millions spent on player pathways etc for what? So many of the props in Ireland have come through with Leinster.

leakyboots

A 6 point loss where we lead for 3/4 of the game is "destroyed"

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124030275#Comment_124030275

Who did Ireland lose to by 6 points to ?.

Am I in the wrong thread ?

leakyboots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124031007#Comment_124031007

See post #49191