2020 NFL season - Week 12 thread

Mysterypunter

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Right, tv off. See you in 2021.

Trubisky is a complete disaster

eagle eye

Mysterypunter wrote: »

Trubisky is a complete disaster

In fairness you can't blame him for that. The line gave no protection there and the hold on the previous negated a completion for a first down.

thomond2006

The Bears defense without Akiem Hicks has been average and so it proved last night.
The run game was abandoned far too early as well, even with the one long run skewing the average it was clearly working.

eagle eye

Yeah and what happened to Trubisky rushing? It was probably the best part of his game as a QB, gave him time in the pocket, it's all but disappeared this season.

Oat23

thomond2006 wrote: »

The Bears defense without Akiem Hicks has been average and so it proved last night.
The run game was abandoned far too early as well, even with the one long run skewing the average it was clearly working.

Looked like a defense that has had enough of this bull rather than a D struggling without Hicks. They know they cannot carry a historocally bad offense to the playoffs.

They played without Hicks before and it was never like last night.

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah and what happened to Trubisky rushing? It was probably the best part of his game as a QB, gave him time in the pocket, it's all but disappeared this season.

Happened last season and I think it has a lot to do with nobody respecting him as a passer. Teams are happy to dedicate a spy to him all game.

In 2018 he had over 400 yards on the ground. 2019 it dramatically dropped to under 200.

BonnieSituation

I stayed up until HT and then I watched the second half "highlights" this morning. Poor Réalt Dearg, it was not pretty!

Nagy will have to get the heave-ho this season surely?

Oat23

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I stayed up until HT and then I watched the second half "highlights" this morning. Poor Réalt Dearg, it was not pretty!

Nagy will have to get the heave-ho this season surely?

In the Bears thread he said he turned it off in the 2Q to watch the mandalorian so don't feel too bad for him :pac:

And yeah, I don't see Nagy or Pace surviving. We've quickly gone from being a team with a dysfunctional offense to being a dysfunctional team. I think they'll both get the chop at the end of the year.

Sort of a shame because Nagy is a great leader. He's the complete opposite of Patricia in that regard. He came in after a few pathetic seasons under Fox and turned everything around. Everyone in the building bought in. The players were having fun playing and played well. There was the 'club dub' stuff. He genuinely deserved to win COTY in 2018 but as an offense coach he has been a disaster overall.

Everything fell apart after 2018. He was exposed as a poor offensive mind with nothing beyond plan A. Teams worked him out and that was that.

eagle eye

BonnieSituation wrote:

Nagy will have to get the heave-ho this season surely?

Well whoever decided to take on Nick Foles needs firing.

Foxtrol

Oat23 wrote: »

In the Bears thread he said he turned it off in the 2Q to watch the mandalorian so don't feel too bad for him :pac:

And yeah, I don't see Nagy or Pace surviving. We've quickly gone from being a team with a dysfunctional offense to being a dysfunctional team. I think they'll both get the chop at the end of the year.

Sort of a shame because Nagy is a great leader. He's the complete opposite of Patricia in that regard. He came in after a few pathetic seasons under Fox and turned everything around. Everyone in the building bought in. The players were having fun playing and played well. There was the 'club dub' stuff. He genuinely deserved to win COTY in 2018 but as an offense coach he has been a disaster overall.

Everything fell apart after 2018. He was exposed as a poor offensive mind with nothing beyond plan A. Teams worked him out and that was that.

Have to disagree with the bold. Great leaders are able to lead beyond the honeymoon period. Getting people to buy in for a short period is easy, any spoofer can do that - which is how I'd describe Nagy.

I do however agree he is better than Patricia, who seemed to somehow manage to make half the team hate him during the usual honeymoon period.

Oat23

eagle eye wrote: »

Well whoever decided to take on Nick Foles needs firing.

The same man who gave Mile Glennon an $18.5m guaranteed deal and took Trubisky over Watson (and Mahomes, I guess).

Ryan Pace is the perfect GM if only we could ignore his QB decisions.

Oat23

Foxtrol wrote: »

Have to disagree with the bold. Great leaders are able to lead beyond the honeymoon period. Getting people to buy in for a short period is easy, any spoofer can do that - which is how I'd describe Nagy.

I do however agree he is better than Patricia, who seemed to somehow manage to make half the team hate him during the usual honeymoon period.

2.5 seasons is not a honeymoon period. They work with him everyday. If they thought of him as a spoofer it would have fallen apart long before he masterminded one of the worst offensive seasons in modern NFL history. Despite this offense we still have a D that has played almost every game at an elite level.

No player has left Chicago only to make snide comments about him. Everyone has had nothing but positive things to say. As a leader and head coach he is definitely not a spoofer. .

He was portrayed as an "offensive guru" and excellent playcaller. In that regard he certainly is a spoofer.

Itssoeasy

The nfl cancelled the ravens practice this morning so that’s just over a week since the team trained and are still scheduled to play the steelers in Pittsburgh tomorrow night. Unless things change quickly I can’t see how the NFL even with the best intentions of trying to get games played can play this one.

eagle eye

Itssoeasy wrote:

The nfl cancelled the ravens practice this morning so that’s just over a week since the team trained and are still scheduled to play the steelers in Pittsburgh tomorrow night. Unless things change quickly I can’t see how the NFL even with the best intentions of trying to get games played can play this one.

If they made the Broncos play without a QB.........

Realt Dearg Sec

Oat23 wrote: »

In the Bears thread he said he turned it off in the 2Q to watch the mandalorian so don't feel too bad for him :pac:

And yeah, I don't see Nagy or Pace surviving. We've quickly gone from being a team with a dysfunctional offense to being a dysfunctional team. I think they'll both get the chop at the end of the year.

Sort of a shame because Nagy is a great leader. He's the complete opposite of Patricia in that regard. He came in after a few pathetic seasons under Fox and turned everything around. Everyone in the building bought in. The players were having fun playing and played well. There was the 'club dub' stuff. He genuinely deserved to win COTY in 2018 but as an offense coach he has been a disaster overall.

Everything fell apart after 2018. He was exposed as a poor offensive mind with nothing beyond plan A. Teams worked him out and that was that.

I actually put my kid to bed in the second quarter, had originally planned to pause the game but decided to forget to do it. Came back with five minutes to go in the third and things were even worse so I did knock it off then. Didn't feel bad switching it off because even the defense had switched off at that stage. Missed out on the garbage time stat padding though.

I really don't see any point in firing nagy of they don't also fire Pace. His decisions have at least as much to do with our current situation as Nagy's (and anyway Nagy was his decision too). I definitely don't trust him to pick another qb, and if the team ownership does they're even stupider than we thought. He's made one decent first round pick since he came in. His best move was giving away first round picks for Mack so that he couldn't use them on more scrubbers.

The_Honeybadger

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The nfl cancelled the ravens practice this morning so that’s just over a week since the team trained and are still scheduled to play the steelers in Pittsburgh tomorrow night. Unless things change quickly I can’t see how the NFL even with the best intentions of trying to get games played can play this one.

Not only that there is bad weather including snowfall forecast in Pittsburgh from midnight tonight and to continue all day. They may not be able to play anyway. If I was betting on it I’d say we won’t have a game Tuesday. Last ditch attempt to play the game may involve moving it to Thursday night and move the weekend games for both teams to the following Tuesday as a double header.

Failing that they will have to cancel or try to fit the game in somewhere later, possibly even week 18. That would be a serious let off for the Ravens and probably wouldn’t go down well with some of the other teams that have been forced to play under strength but nothing would surprise me.

Foxtrol

Oat23 wrote: »

2.5 seasons is not a honeymoon period. They work with him everyday. If they thought of him as a spoofer it would have fallen apart long before he masterminded one of the worst offensive seasons in modern NFL history. Despite this offense we still have a D that has played almost every game at an elite level.

No player has left Chicago only to make snide comments about him. Everyone has had nothing but positive things to say. As a leader and head coach he is definitely not a spoofer. .

He was portrayed as an "offensive guru" and excellent playcaller. In that regard he certainly is a spoofer.

2.5 years where only in his first year did they finish with a winning record, losing 4 more games last year, and now losing 5 in a row. It has been slowly falling apart since his honeymoon year.

I think we have very different definitions of what a 'great leader' is. To me it isn't having no one say a bad thing about you, it is getting players to buy in long term and be better than the sum of their individual parts. Leadership is easy when things are going well but it is in the bad times when leadership shines through. As an outsider the Bears over the last 1.5 years have played far below the sum of their parts and during the bad times Nagy has gone missing.

Oat23

Foxtrol wrote: »

Leadership is easy when things are going well but it is in the bad times when leadership shines through.

What exactly are you expecting him to do? I've already said he is a bad coach. How is a bad coach expected to make the likes of Nick Foles not slower than a tortoise, Mitch not suffer from football dyslexia or make an offensive line that is made up of people off the street block better?


I don't care how good a leader is, they aren't rubbing their hands together and magically making these important parts of an offense good. You would need to be a very good coach to make it work with what is available.


I get you don't like Nagy but calling him a bad leader is so far off the mark. A bad leader alienates his players to the point they want out. Players don't fight for bad leaders, they get blown out. In Nagy's entire tenure of 44 games the team has only lost 4 games by more than one score. Look at how many close games they've been involved in since 2018, or how many times we've been down by 2+ TDs and come back. Poor leaders do not get that level of commitment.

I'm also interested to know what you mean by "Nagy has gone missing". I'm not sure what it means? He's always owned his mistakes and said he'll change this and that, but the simple fact is he hasn't got it in him to follow it up with anything else in the next game because he's a spoofer.

Foxtrol

Oat23 wrote: »

What exactly are you expecting him to do? I've already said he is a bad coach. How is a bad coach expected to make the likes of Nick Foles not slower than a tortoise, Mitch not suffer from football dyslexia or make an offensive line that is made up of people off the street block better?


I don't care how good a leader is, they aren't rubbing their hands together and magically making these important parts of an offense good. You would need to be a very good coach to make it work with what is available.


I get you don't like Nagy but calling him a bad leader is so far off the mark. A bad leader alienates his players to the point they want out. Players don't fight for bad leaders, they get blown out. In Nagy's entire tenure of 44 games the team has only lost 4 games by more than one score. Look at how many close games they've been involved in since 2018, or how many times we've been down by 2+ TDs and come back. Poor leaders do not get that level of commitment.

I'm also interested to know what you mean by "Nagy has gone missing". I'm not sure what it means? He's always owned his mistakes but the simple fact is he hasn't got it in him to follow it up with anything else in the next game because he's a spoofer.

I didn't say he was a bad leader, I disagreed with you claiming he is a 'great leader', agreeing others like Patricia are far worse in that department.

Given this discussion I saw his press conference pop up on my feed and watched it and Nagy didn't do what you said in bold at all. He pointed the fingers at players and other coaches even had the gall to complain about the performance of the defense. Then a reporter asked him about how the Packers were able to scheme open their players while the Bears couldn't he refused to answer and again pointed his finger at the players.

Oat23

Foxtrol wrote: »

I didn't say he was a bad leader, I disagreed with you claiming he is a 'great leader', agreeing others like Patricia are far worse in that department.

Given this discussion I saw his press conference pop up on my feed and watched it and Nagy didn't do what you said in bold at all. He pointed the fingers at players and other coaches even had the gall to complain about the performance of the defense. Then a reporter asked him about how the Packers were able to scheme open their players while the Bears couldn't he refused to answer and again pointed his finger at the players.

Okay. You didn't say he was a bad leader, but disagree on him being a great leader. What would you call him? If you say a good leader I'm going to be annoyed at having typed all this on a phone over a slightly less positive synonym. :pac:


Granted I haven't even watched all of last night's game yet nevermind the press conferences, but what you've said isn't what has been the case for the past 2.5 seasons. "That's on me" has to be one of his most used phrases since 2018. And it got pretty annoying because he'd say it but then change nothing. It's now apparent that nothing changed because he sucks at his job.

From what I've seen the defense last night was very poor, but as a coach responsible for such a pathetic offense he's the last person who has the right to criticise.

edit:
Also, if you want to see bad leadership go back to 2014 to the Bears under Trestman. Every Bears fan on here will attest that what we witnessed under him was the very definition of it.

We gave up 50 points in week 7 & 8, being outscored 106-37. That's a team who quit because the leadership sucked.

Itssoeasy

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Not only that there is bad weather including snowfall forecast in Pittsburgh from midnight tonight and to continue all day. They may not be able to play anyway. If I was betting on it I’d say we won’t have a game Tuesday. Last ditch attempt to play the game may involve moving it to Thursday night and move the weekend games for both teams to the following Tuesday as a double header.

Failing that they will have to cancel or try to fit the game in somewhere later, possibly even week 18. That would be a serious let off for the Ravens and probably wouldn’t go down well with some of the other teams that have been forced to play under strength but nothing would surprise me.

Of course the weather is bad. I hadn’t heard about the weather but I’m not surprised.

Foxtrol

Oat23 wrote: »

Okay. You didn't say he was a bad leader, but disagree on him being a great leader. What would you call him? If you say a good leader I'm going to be annoyed at having typed all this on a phone over a slightly less positive synonym. :pac:

Granted I haven't even watched all of last night's game yet nevermind the press conferences, but what you've said isn't what has been the case for the past 2.5 seasons. "That's on me" has to be one of his most used phrases since 2018. And it got pretty annoying because he'd say it but then change nothing. It's now apparent that nothing changed because he sucks at his job.

From what I've seen the defense last night was very poor, but as a coach responsible for such a pathetic offense he's the last person who has the right to criticise.

edit:
Also, if you want to see bad leadership go back to 2014 to the Bears under Trestman. Every Bears fan on here will attest that what we witnessed under him was the very definition of it.

We gave up 50 points in week 7 & 8, being outscored 106-37. That's a team who quit because the leadership sucked.

I wouldn't even call him a good leader either, at best he is fine. He has been in a lucky situation of having a very good team, QB aside, which would mask over most leadership issues, unless you are a completely horrible person. From what I've seen I think he'd be a complete disaster leadership-wise if he faced real adversity or was in charge of a low quality team.

We see the 'that's on me' very differently. Yes, I don't think he has the capability as coach to fix things if he tried but everything I've seen from him those statements appeared to be complete lip service. It is like he read a leadership book that said that leaders should take responsibility but then his next words and actions always told a complete different story - be it going into way more detail about what a player did wrong than he would about his faults or going right up to the ludicrous kicker competition.

Mysterypunter

The Philadelphia Eagles as well as being not very good, are completely brainless. Down by 11, 9 mins left, 4th down, go for it, and Wentz throws an interception. Washington will win this division a lot in the next 10 years

BonnieSituation

Also. Can Wentz slide? So many times he ran into a dead end and waited on the hit. It's bizarre. When moreso when you see the expert slider on the other side.

Itssoeasy

Well for some daft reason I decided to watch the first three quarters of MNF live and oh god I wish I hadn’t. The defence came to play which is good but **** it the offence is a mess. 74 yards in the first half total and 70 of those came on the TD drive near the end. I know the final score so I need to watch the fourth quarter just to finish.

Jason peters needs to be benched and not play again and Alshon Jeffrey likewise. And then there is Carson wentz and he’s not the only problem but he’s not the same player he was and some of his throws are baffling. The Oline isn’t good but there were times again last night where he had people open and for some reason isn’t seeing them or is and is deliberately not throwing to them. The Annoying part is the commentary team are pointing out the open receivers after the fact. Carson wentz won’t be cut but he can certainly be benched and I wouldn’t be surprised is Doug and howie are shown the door at the end of the season. The eagles have the packers and saints up next so that will be fun.

dfx-

That was the first game I bailed out on at 14-9 and I watched several of the primetime NFC East games and even Bears v Vikings..

eagle eye

So much for Hurts getting a good bit of time. It was horrendous, It was a guaranteed run play when he went in. The guy has a decent arm, if you even let him throw it once it might have opened up some space for run plays.

It seemed like there was no plan in place for his plays.

Itssoeasy

Well that fourth quarter was window dressing and the TD at the end somehow fell to the eagles whereas so far this season we can barely win a raffle. I don’t know where the team goes in the short to medium term but I said it last off season that serious questions needed to be asked and it didn’t really happen but now it must happen.

BonnieSituation

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well that fourth quarter was window dressing and the TD at the end somehow fell to the eagles whereas so far this season we can barely win a raffle. I don’t know where the team goes in the short to medium term but I said it last off season that serious questions needed to be asked and it didn’t really happen but now it must happen.

You better hope it's not home WC game

Itssoeasy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You better hope it's not home WC game

I hate saying it but not winning the division this year might be a blessing as winning the division and getting a home WC game would make things seem saveable.

Itssoeasy

It’s a bit weird having live football on a Wednesday night at a reasonable time but the commissioner was just asked about bubbles for the post season and it’s a case of stricter bubbles around teams but not bubbles like mlb did or the nba did.