Scotland votes to provide free period products universally

ohnonotgmail

Gruffalux wrote: »

This statement has me baffled, can they not put them in packets, but just in case it is another football joke going right over my head...*nods and smiles* :pac:

No I'm being serious. they did it to stop them floating away aparently.

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/26/8661537/sally-ride-tampons

tringle

strandroad wrote: »

Seeing how the cost is euro or two per month, it wouldn't be worthwhile to means test it at all and most people won't bother with it anyway.

Still reading through this thread but had to pick up on this, i really dont know where you are getting this figure from. One box regular Lilets and one box super lilets plus 2 packs of panty liners is bringing you up to €10 a month anyway, and a lot of women will need more than that. Never mind packs of paracetamol and the extra washing required. It all adds up. Social welfare is €40 a week for a child 12 plus up to 18 or completing education, €10 from this one week in 4 is a lot.
When i was a teenager money was really tight and every penny was accounted for, any week that sanitary products were needed meant something had to be left out. My parents didnt have an issue with it but inside i still felt bad.
Another issue was carrying sanitary products in your school bag. I was in a mixed school and the boys thought it great fun to grab a bag and throw your tampons about. Yes, that shows the the boys were immature and needed more education on the matter but this hasnt changed much. If someone started their period during class a note would go around to see if anyone had 50p for the vending machine in the loo. Then i was sent to get them, i had a teeny hand and once the machine was open to dispense a box of three i could get my hand in to get a second box of three and it was enough to do that girl for the day. I got caught one day by an older nun. When she saw what i was doing she collected a jar of 50p coins for us.
Sorry, i went on more than i intended but yes, vending machines should be available free in schools, hospitals, staff bathrooms, sporting changing rooms, perhaps even coffe shop bathrooms. I dont think there is a need for them to be given out free in supermarkets and pharmacies, most people are happy to buy a stash. But knowing if you get caught out you can easily find what you need in a nearby bathroom would be a reassurance to many.

Eric Cartman

One of the few ‘this actually helps’ parts of government spending I would agree with, as long as they came up with a definitive plan of where they were cutting spending to pay for this and not simply taxing more / adding debt to pay for it , I would support this.

Manach

Nothing is ever free. I'd recommend an economics text such as Thomas Sowell's "Basic Economics" to clarify this. So yet another government inititive to appear progressive and to effectively buy votes.

strandroad

tringle wrote: »

Still reading through this thread but had to pick up on this, i really dont know where you are getting this figure from.

To clarify I based it on a box of own brand tampons, that's 1 to 1.50 euro in the likes of Boots or Tesco for a box of 24 to 30. Nothing fancy but I had to use them once in the lockdown and they did the job. I agree that there are extras if you need full support, this is just the cheap basic stuff that could be stocked everywhere in schools, libraries, workplaces etc.

seamus

For anyone who opposes this, I would like to invite them to present to us an example of a product that men have to buy on a regular basis which women do not, and for which no analogue exists for women.

For example, you could say men have to buy condoms. But women also have to buy contraception. So it's a level playing field*

Women have to buy period products. Men do not.

Comparisons with food, toilet roll, electricity, are moot.

*Even if contraception should be free anyway

WrenBoy

seamus wrote: »

For anyone who opposes this, I would like to invite them to present to us an example of a product that men have to buy on a regular basis which women do not, and for which no analogue exists for women.

For example, you could say men have to buy condoms. But women also have to buy contraception. So it's a level playing field*

Women have to buy period products. Men do not.

Comparisons with food, toilet roll, electricity, are moot.

*Even if contraception should be free anyway

Men have periods too now, Im not sure this argument holds up anymore :pac::pac:

suicide_circus

seamus wrote: »

For anyone who opposes this, I would like to invite them to present to us an example of a product that men have to buy on a regular basis which women do not, and for which no analogue exists for women.

For example, you could say men have to buy condoms. But women also have to buy contraception. So it's a level playing field*

Women have to buy period products. Men do not.

Comparisons with food, toilet roll, electricity, are moot.

*Even if contraception should be free anyway

I cant think of anything. But then expecting the world to be a perfectly balanced level playing field is absurd. Women have to buy tampons. Men die younger. Win some, lose some.

meeeeh

Why does everything have to be about men vs. women. It's to afford some dignity to people who need basic hygienic product. If you go into a public toilet the toilet paper will be provided.

ohnonotgmail

meeeeh wrote: »

Why does everything have to be about men vs. women. It's to afford some dignity to people who need basic hygienic product. If you go into a public toilet the toilet paper will be provided.

ignore them. they must be exhausted carrying the same nonsense everywhere they go.

ancapailldorcha

I don't know why I even clicked on this. It's exactly the vitriolic mess that I expected.

It's not a zero sum game and it seems some people resent the state trying to address a problem women face rather than caring about men themselves.

suicide_circus

In the grand scheme of things it'll cost little or nothing to the tax payer

seamus

suicide_circus wrote: »

I cant think of anything. But then expecting the world to be a perfectly balanced level playing field is absurd. Women have to buy tampons. Men die younger. Win some, lose some.

You can both accept that that life is inherently umfair while also addressing unfairness where it is within society's power to do so.

We can't, for example, address the inherent unfairness that women have to have periods and bear children. But we can go some way to minimising that unfairness with free period products, legal protections for maternity care, etc.

TomTomTim

WrenBoy wrote: »

Men have periods too now, Im not sure this argument holds up anymore :pac::pac:

Such bigotry from seamus, he's usually a good little progressive. He clearly denies the existence of trans people, which only furthers their oppression in society. I expected so much more from you seamus, how could you let us all down?

Ah lads I’m not actually reading someone comparing Gillette razors (or razors at all) to period products am I?

I’m fairly sure given I don’t regularly buy razors (cheap ones wreck my skin and Gillette blades are a fortune) however, since my beard or face doesn’t bleed for 5+ days every few weeks (if you’re lucky) I don’t think razors are the same category as period pads or tampons. Much the same way they’re not similar to women’s razors.

While perhaps most find women with body hair unattractive it’s an irrelevance to the topic, the matter of fact is period products for women who have them are essential and should be given as and when they’re needed. No difference whatsoever in toilet paper in all public restrooms (or just in general like). Imagine if you went to a restaurant needed to go to the toilet but first had to stop in Tesco and pickup a pack of toilet roll, that’s exactly how a woman who goes out and her period comes unexpectedly has to deal with. Unfortunately, contrary to what some seem to think, periods don’t have a start time they just arrive and that can happen at home or otherwise.

The fact that arguments about taxes or economics even come into this are ridiculous. Do you concern yourself with how much tax council toilets cost every month? No, probably not because it’s something both men and women use, so it’s not male oppression or some other bollocks. As a man, I’m delighted to see steps towards making people’s lives easier. Poverty or not doesn’t dictate if you get caught with no sanitary products when you’re out and about. Especially younger women/teenagers. Not always feasible to carry them on your person at all times either & not beyond possible you could forget one day or whatever. Can’t for the life of me understand why government ideas have to benefit both men and women interchangeably & if women get free tampons men should get free razors, like, it’s just not the same thing and any argument to the contrary I’ve seen is simply a poster being obtuse and they should honestly cop on. Rather than deride this celebrate it for the progressive and fair movement it is. You’re helping women of all backgrounds avoid the embarrassment of running to a toilet and hiding hoping there’s someone near by they know or who can help them out. It happens, it shouldn’t, but it does.

If you take nothing else I said to heart just think about that for a moment & imagine you had to text/call friends while in school or in work or whatever else to drop you down a toilet roll to the bathroom. You’d be mortified, but apparently so long as a situation can’t affect you directly it’s all just a load of nonsense sure.

Yellow_Fern

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah lads I’m not actually reading someone comparing Gillette razors (or razors at all) to period products am I?

I’m fairly sure given I don’t regularly buy razors (cheap ones wreck my skin and Gillette blades are a fortune) however, since my beard or face doesn’t bleed for 5+ days every few weeks (if you’re lucky) I don’t think razors are the same category as period pads or tampons. Much the same way they’re not similar to women’s razors.

While perhaps most find women with body hair unattractive it’s an irrelevance to the topic, the matter of fact is period products for women who have them are essential and should be given as and when they’re needed. No difference whatsoever in toilet paper in all public restrooms (or just in general like). Imagine if you went to a restaurant needed to go to the toilet but first had to stop in Tesco and pickup a pack of toilet roll, that’s exactly how a woman who goes out and her period comes unexpectedly has to deal with. Unfortunately, contrary to what some seem to think, periods don’t have a start time they just arrive and that can happen at home or otherwise.

The fact that arguments about taxes or economics even come into this are ridiculous. Do you concern yourself with how much tax council toilets cost every month? No, probably not because it’s something both men and women use, so it’s not male oppression or some other bollocks. As a man, I’m delighted to see steps towards making people’s lives easier. Poverty or not doesn’t dictate if you get caught with no sanitary products when you’re out and about. Especially younger women/teenagers. Not always feasible to carry them on your person at all times either & not beyond possible you could forget one day or whatever. Can’t for the life of me understand why government ideas have to benefit both men and women interchangeably & if women get free tampons men should get free razors, like, it’s just not the same thing and any argument to the contrary I’ve seen is simply a poster being obtuse and they should honestly cop on. Rather than deride this celebrate it for the progressive and fair movement it is. You’re helping women of all backgrounds avoid the embarrassment of running to a toilet and hiding hoping there’s someone near by they know or who can help them out. It happens, it shouldn’t, but it does.

If you take nothing else I said to heart just think about that for a moment & imagine you had to text/call friends while in school or in work or whatever else to drop you down a toilet roll to the bathroom. You’d be mortified, but apparently so long as a situation can’t affect you directly it’s all just a load of nonsense sure.

Really ignorant take on it. Not least because there is no right to free toilet paper. Tampons etc are no more essential than food but food is only provided free to those in need. That is for a good reason. Of course, good employers, schools, universities etc should provide tampons in private or public WCs but the idea as a principle that all women should get them for free is neither sensible or fair when you consider the externalities. This initiative will either fail or be so much hassle to avail of that many women will continue to buy them just like how countries that have aimed to provide free food to all have never succeeded beyond emergency situations. I am happy to take a wager on my prediction.

Gervais08

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Really ignorant take on it. Not least because there is no right to free toilet paper. Tampons etc are no more essential than food but food is only provided free to those in need. That is for a good reason. Of course, good employers, schools, universities etc should provide tampons in private or public WCs but the idea as a principle that all women should get them for free is neither sensible or fair when you consider the externalities. This initiative will either fail or be so much hassle to avail of that many women will continue to buy them just like how countries that have aimed to provide free food to all have never succeeded beyond emergency situations. I am happy to take a wager on my prediction.

Vile misogynistic post there btw.

Sanitary protection is not vital ??? Is a quarter of your life from 13 to 50 (minimum) ruled by your body ? No.

Have some thought eh ?

Yellow_Fern

Gervais08 wrote: »

Vile misogynistic post there btw.

Sanitary protection is not vital ??? Is a quarter of your life from 13 to 50 (minimum) ruled by your body ? No.

Have some thought eh ?

My post mentioned that these products are not more essential than food. So I am saying they are essential but so is food and we don't provide food to all for free as a right. An apology for your misreading very welcome.

Yellow_Fern

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

My post mentioned that these products are not more essential than food. So I am saying they are essential but so is food and we don't provide food to all for free as a right. An apology for your misreading very welcome.

Oh here we go comparing it to food :rolleyes:

El_Duderino 09

LineConsole wrote: »

Call me old fashioned but I think that every woman and girl should have access to basic hygiene and sanitation products free of charge in public facilities and that the working population of the county can well afford to pay for this in tax. If something upholds the dignity of women and girls then I’m all for it.

These sort of things should be a society minimum.

You say it’s an old fashioned view but in reality it’s a very new idea. Just looks at how these campaigners and activists had to fight to have it implemented and how many modern people oppose it.

In reality, doing it is a very modern idea. It’s today’s “”PC gone mad” and tomorrow’s sensible idea. Most of those who oppose it today will forget they ever opposed.

CtevenSrowder

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

My post mentioned that these products are not more essential than food. So I am saying they are essential but so is food and we don't provide food to all for free as a right. An apology for your misreading very welcome.

As you have pointed out, attempts to provide free to all have failed miserably. However, just because one essential item is undeliverable free at the point of purchase does not mean all are. Having period products freely available in certain places is a lot more simple.

Gervais08

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

My post mentioned that these products are not more essential than food. So I am saying they are essential but so is food and we don't provide food to all for free as a right. An apology for your misreading very welcome.

I misread nothing and will not apologise for calling out anti women sentiment.

StupidLikeAFox

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

My post mentioned that these products are not more essential than food. So I am saying they are essential but so is food and we don't provide food to all for free as a right. An apology for your misreading very welcome.

Who cares? They are not in a position to provide free food to everyone but are in a position to provide free tampons to the small numbers of people who need it. It's not that complex an idea to grasp

SEPT 23 1989

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I agree with this but

Why can't the mother and father pay for these products for their daughter?

Just like the breakfast clubs etc

If you can't support your own child for the most cheapest basic life expenses how are you fit to be a parent?

These products are not cheap - thats the whole point.

My aunt and uncle had five daughters. Including their mother, at one point that meant sanitary products were required for six women in that house every month.

It added up. Its all part of "the pink tax".

(eta) if you think of it, throw some extra sanitary products in your shopping trolley next time and donate them to your local womens or homeless shelter. They will be very gratefully accepted.

blanch152

tringle wrote: »

Sorry, i went on more than i intended but yes, vending machines should be available free in schools, hospitals, staff bathrooms, sporting changing rooms, perhaps even coffe shop bathrooms. I dont think there is a need for them to be given out free in supermarkets and pharmacies, most people are happy to buy a stash. But knowing if you get caught out you can easily find what you need in a nearby bathroom would be a reassurance to many.

Pretty much this sums it up as to what should be done.

As someone else said, toilet roll is provided as a basic sanitary necessity in public toilets etc. even though people also buy them at home. Should be the same for sanitary pads/tampons.

BonnieSituation

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Really ignorant take on it. Not least because there is no right to free toilet paper. Tampons etc are no more essential than food but food is only provided free to those in need. That is for a good reason. Of course, good employers, schools, universities etc should provide tampons in private or public WCs but the idea as a principle that all women should get them for free is neither sensible or fair when you consider the externalities. This initiative will either fail or be so much hassle to avail of that many women will continue to buy them just like how countries that have aimed to provide free food to all have never succeeded beyond emergency situations. I am happy to take a wager on my prediction.

I love that "free sanitary products" is the hill you're going to die on.

I hope you put as much effort into other affronts you suffer and scandalous spending by governments here and abroad. And you're not even in Scotland which is the gas part!

Gruffalux

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I love that "free sanitary products" is the hill you're going to die on.

I hope you put as much effort into other affronts you suffer and scandalous spending by governments here and abroad. And you're not even in Scotland which is the gas part!

they are not going to like it if the revolting peasantry stage a free bleeding protest *.

* In fact neither am I.

seenitall

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah they’ll surely be the cheapest ones. The luxury brands will still be on sale like always.

Always is not a luxury brand! Just your standard, middle of the road quality- and price-wise products.

:P

bcklschaps

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the adult ones are certainly free

If you have a medical card. Then you pay €2 per item to a max of €10.

ohnonotgmail

bcklschaps wrote: »

If you have a medical card. Then you pay €2 per item to a max of €10.

no fee for the ones my mother gets. she gets boxes at a time.