Will you take an approved COVID-19 vaccine?

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752213#Comment_117752213

"no kind way to say that you are not a clever person"

That's a rude thing to say.

The adolescent trial of Moderna itself reported eye disorders arising in the month following vaccination amongst the safety set. As well as other medically attended adverse events that they report in the vaccinated group, occurring to a significant degree compared to the placebo group

Table S3 in the supplementary data for this trial: Evaluation of mRNA-1273 SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine in Adolescents | NEJM

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752172#Comment_117752172

They do, what are they and how do they compare with the incidence of serious illness/death associated with Covid?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752204#Comment_117752204

I’m not sure it is surprising in the US where vaccination hesitancy is also associated in some cases with political affiliation and geographical location.

growleaves

"no kind way to say that you are not a clever person"

'That's a very rude thing to say.'

The intellectual pride of some posters is incredible. I hope they don't go on like that in real life, for their own sake.

Stoop to the personal insults when you can't win your agruement, typical.

Is that any worse than completing ignoring a person's question because you are losing your argument?

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752508#Comment_117752508

You think Trump supporters are more likely have PhDs or something? Either way, they adjust for this covariate, as well as demography, location, health status, beliefs, etc

I think it's quite a surprising finding, because the narrative in media is that only stupid people are against vaccination, when it's definitively the opposite (in the US).

JEC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752093#Comment_117752093

I would never argue that the benefits outweigh the risks for older people.

I do not agree though that the same applies for those under 18.

I would never advocate to someone that they should not get the vaccine. I believe it is a personal choice. I don't agree with people who advocate to others that they should.

I am acutely aware of the trauma that occurs when someone suffers a serious adverse event. I have witnessed someone feeling betrayed by the assurances that the vaccine is safe. Consequently I am strongly against mandatory vaccination, coercion, vaccine passports and the vaccination of children.

I am not against vaccinations. I have had plenty, as have my children. My son had the HPV vaccine the first year it was available to boys. I am happy to review my position when clinical trials complete and the vaccines receive full approval as opposed to conditional marketing authorisation.

pgj2015

I find it hilarious that you cant get into restaurants and pubs etc unless you have the covid cert. I cant wait to see what the Government come up with next to make life as hard as possible for the anti vaxers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752579#Comment_117752579

So you agree that if the reason a person that is 18+ is being hesitant about getting the vaccine is because of potential adverse affects, then they should get the vaccine?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752594#Comment_117752594

Spite is hardly likely to change anyone's mind. It undermines the pretense that this is some of kind of purely technical matter.

JEC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752594#Comment_117752594

I'm guessing you are the same type of person who in the past found it hilarious when an unmarried girl was shipped off to a Mother and Baby home for her 'sins'. 'Sure she made her choice and must suffer the consequences'

TP_CM

I didn't want it but was exhausted by everyone asking me about it and then treating me like a tin foil hat man for not getting it. I think it's absolutely mental that people feel so strong about something which is no where near as awful as the winter flu for those who are young and without underlying conditions. The stats are there but people are not focussing on them. Most young people don't have underlying conditions. Most young people are fine contracting this virus. Aside from the very very odd case, it takes them less time to get over this than the winter flu. But I'm just done with it now. Sick to death of morons who base their feelings off the media frenzy instead of basic statistics. I want this whole thing to be over but as far as I'm concerned, until the media find something new to feast on we're stuck with it because god knows the public aren't looking at logic. We're talking pandemonium over 0.1%. Is one out of every 1000 young people who contract this even dying from it, or suffering for longer than 6 weeks? If not, it's the same as the winter flu and our feelings should reflect that. Absolutely mental. The media have us wrapped around their fingers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752666#Comment_117752666

The young are getting it primarily to stop the spread. How people can say a paragraph of nonsense like this in August 2021 is mind boggling.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752363#Comment_117752363

You know lots of people that had rare side effects after the vaccine and you're posting the VAERS database as proof of issues with vaccines. You are not posting in good faith. The VAERS database specifically says it's not a record of side effects to vaccines yet you are presenting it as such, you are completely wrong to be using the data in this way and have followed a very similar posting pattern to many conspiracy theorists in trying to spread misinformation.

If you have relevant data, present it, the VAERS database is not relevant information for your cause.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117751837#Comment_117751837

Extremely safe compared with Covid, which we know can have long term effects, which are much more commonly reported than any serious side effects from the vaccine

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752193#Comment_117752193

These people are not choosing to go unvaccinated, they are not effing morons, but are placed at increased risk by the cowards who are too afraid to take the vaccine

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752510#Comment_117752510

Using the VAERS database in your anti-vax argument puts you in this category:

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752710#Comment_117752710

Read the trial data from Moderna I replied to you with. Are Moderna researchers anti-vax? You're coming across as rude and hysterical.

JEC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752626#Comment_117752626

I agree they should be free to make their own choice and do what they believe is right for them. Absolutely.

Would you agree that if someone decides not to get the vaccine then they should be free to do so without penalty? As is the case with all other vaccines available in this country.

TP_CM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752673#Comment_117752673

It's logic I'm after here. So logically, I suppose we'll get them to take the winter flu vaccine* so as well? Or do we not care as much about that virus which wipes out old and vulnerable people every year. Only people who've had the winter flu vaccine can dine indoors. At least be consistent.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752722#Comment_117752722

You haven't really answered my question there with your first sentence. I'll try again and will then gladly answer your question, I hope that's fair.

Do you agree that if the reason a person that is 18+ is being hesitant about getting the vaccine is because of potential adverse affects, then they should be getting the vaccine? It is a yes or no question.

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752673#Comment_117752673

Transmission rates are currently unknown for the Delta variant for people with different vaccines. Preliminary studies of AZ show that transmission is FAR higher for Delta variants amongst vaccinated people compared to previous dominant strains (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733). We do know that viral load is the same between unvaccinated and vaccinated overall, and we also know that at least Moderna does NOT prevent infection (from their own data: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109522).

With data currently available, it is senseless for young people to be vaccinated.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752729#Comment_117752729

I thought Mrs O’B was the only one who could not distinguish between the influenza and corona viruses, it seems she is not alone.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752729#Comment_117752729

No, because the combined incubation period, infectious period and basic reproductive number for the winter flu would never lead to the ICU being overwhelmed. However, even with the elderly being fully vaccinated, the ICU can still quite easily be overwhelmed by those unlucky few young and middle aged people who have a serious reaction to the virus.

growleaves

In fairness I think STB must take the top prize for this gem when speaking to Mrs O'B:

'I could take you through the vast differences in virility, reproductive number, and the long term complications of Covid, but I fear I might lose you.'

Unfortunately STB, astrofool, Dav010 and Aristotle are so intellectually brilliant that's its too difficult for the stupid posters, like you and me, to comprehend what they're saying. It must be like toying with an insect, or playing with a pet. They could be reformulating Gödel's incompleteness theorems so we're lucky they're even giving us any of their time.

Thanks guys, we have a lot to learn from you. I'm just glad that I'm here to bask in the glow.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752737#Comment_117752737

That's absolutely terrible logic. Like really really awful logic.

Before I bothering responding, can I ask you, if the delta variant did not exist, then would you recommend young people get the vaccine? Because if the answer is no, then there is no point in responding to this comment as what you said is irrelevant to you anyway.

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752779#Comment_117752779

This is the type of zealotry you face with science deniers, unfortunately. This hubris and lack of humility is taught out of you early on in an actual career in science.

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752804#Comment_117752804

You're hypothesising about a scenario that doesn't exist, while criticising my logic. Please explain the flaw in my logic without more hyperbole.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752468#Comment_117752468

Table S3 lists 0 severe vaccine related issues, you also might have missed that 2/3 had the vaccine and 1/3 had the placebo, as the conclusion of the study states, based on the data listed, their conclusion based on the data is:

" the overall benefit–risk profile of mRNA-1273 was favorable in adolescents. The immunogenicity of mRNA-1273 in adolescents was noninferior to that in young adults in the phase 3 trial, with a similar safety profile"

Yet here you are misrepresenting it.

If you have a trial showing bad effects of the vaccine, please present your data and it's conclusion.

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117752826#Comment_117752826

They list the proportions of each group having adverse outcomes.

You're also pointing out severe adverse reactions, which I did not mention. I said medically attended adverse reactions, which occurred in 12.6% of cases in the treatment group and and 5.8% of cases in the placebo group. Amongst that 12.6% of cases, eye disorders occurred.

Furthermore, you should interpret their paper and specifically the words in that section "favourable", "noninferior", "similar" according to the data, rather than reading the sentence without inspection.