Will you take an approved COVID-19 vaccine?

TheMilkyPirate

KyussB wrote: »

When vaccines meets the bar for hundreds of thousands of participants, then I'll wait a year from then pretty much. 9 months is not a bar for long term. Neither is a year, or even 2.

The seasonal flu vaccine's use a well established repeatable method of vaccine development, and they take 2 years pretty much. The coronavirus vaccines are new methods largely - that normally would take beyond a decade to approve.

Being infected with the coronavirus is not the alternative option, here...You keep on presenting that false dichotomy.

Government policy and a proper lockdown-to-Zero plus quarantine of all foreign entry, has been and is always the fastest route to normality - way faster than any vaccine.

The ironic thing about your zeal to try and paint people into the anti-vax corner, is that your condescending attitude and trying to railroad aside legitimate concerns with these vaccines (which are not like any other well established vaccines...), is that you're actually going to create bonafide anti-vaxxers with the way you approach things.

It's like atheists who think it's ok to be arseholes to religous people - and corporatist Science! advocates who forget that critical thinking and skepticism are a core part of the process, especially given the amount of corruption/fraud, monopolistic behaviour and tobacco/oil-industry level FUD, which comes from such a wide variety of scientific-research-heavy industry (hindering or corrupting the scientific process).

Absolutely ridiculous. You propose complete lockdown and zero entries to the country as the right response to this over a vaccine?

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/coronavirus-northern-ireland-executive-announces-plan-to-vaccinate-more-than-100000-healthcare-workers-in-three-week-period-39793965.html

N.I getting fairly aggressive in their vaccine rollout plans. Good on them. They've had a rotten few moinths compared to ourselves.

pinkyeye

I will definitely be first in the queue with the sleeve up for this vaccine as I work in a Nursing Home who so far have managed to stop Covid getting in. I've spoken to some colleagues who say they will refuse and I believe they should be excluded from work if they refuse.

Yes there's a risk of side effects as there is with any medication or vaccine but there's a risk when you get in the car in the morning to go to work also. You could die in a car accident as a result of getting to work but you take that risk to have a normal life.

hmmm

pinkyeye wrote: »

I will definitely be first in the queue with the sleeve up for this vaccine as I work in a Nursing Home who so far have managed to stop Covid getting in. I've spoken to some colleagues who say they will refuse and I believe they should be excluded from work if they refuse.

Good for you & thank you. No excuse to not get this if you work surrounded by extremely vulnerable people.

josip

Deleted User wrote: »

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/coronavirus-northern-ireland-executive-announces-plan-to-vaccinate-more-than-100000-healthcare-workers-in-three-week-period-39793965.html

N.I getting fairly aggressive in their vaccine rollout plans. Good on them. They've had a rotten few moinths compared to ourselves.

Do N.I source their own supply of vaccines or are they allocated from a UK-level sourcing?

"When the vaccines become available, and there are seven vaccines in total"

What are the 4 others, that she refers to?

ddarcy

KyussB wrote: »

The seasonal flu vaccine's use a well established repeatable method of vaccine development, and they take 2 years pretty much. The coronavirus vaccines are new methods largely - that normally would take beyond a decade to approve..

Since you’re full of crap with this statement I’ll let you cite where you get that. These links might help (btw the process is less than a year). You’re right that it is well established though. Not expecting a reply though.

[url] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/vaccine-selection.htm[/url]

[url] https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/fdas-critical-role-ensuring-supply-influenza-vaccine[/url]

KyussB

Akrasia wrote: »

Ah here, come on now, you think it is a better option for Ireland to get to zero cases with essentially permanent travel restrictions that would absolutely devastate our economy? You think 'normality' involves lockdowns and travel restrictions?


The chance of the world getting rid of this virus just via social distancing and quarantines on travellers is zero. There will always be reservoirs that will allow it to re-infect the country from outside

We need to get herd immunity, and this can be done in 2 ways, either by enough people getting the virus, or by vaccines.

It's already been done - and has saved countless tens of thousands of lives in other countries. It's the proven method of dealing with the coronavirus.

You destroy the economy by not doing a 'lockdown-to-Zero' with foreign entry quarantine, because if you don't do it then you have recurring lockdowns lasting essentially forever, rather than just one proper one.

We also have no choice other than to do it that way, because herd immunity is not presently an option, as nothing is known to provide long term immunity from the virus. The vaccines were never an alternative for avoiding 'lockdowns-to-Zero', only a component in helping us get there.

So not only do you have magically unrealistic faith in the vaccines as a silver bullet, you believe herd immunity route is possible when it's just a route to mass-deaths far beyond what we've seen already (with the vaccines not changing this, we already know some of them don't provide enough lasting immunity) - and you discount the only option that is proven to save lives and the economy, so far...

KyussB

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous. You propose complete lockdown and zero entries to the country as the right response to this over a vaccine?

The vaccines aren't silver bullets - we still need to do that along with the vaccines, helping us get there. Not knowing the long term effects of vaccines, includes not knowing how long they last (at least some we know don't give much more immunity than getting the virus itself) - nor how long they will be effective to newly developing strains.

You do one proper lockdown all-island, getting us to Zero - then the whole domestic economy is able to open up again, since all external travel gets quarantined. Saves lives, saves the economy - gets us out of recurring lockdowns. It's already been done by several countries, who are essentially fully open domestically.

hmmm

KyussB wrote: »

You do one proper lockdown all-island, getting us to Zero - then the whole domestic economy is able to open up again, since all external travel gets quarantined. Saves lives, saves the economy - gets us out of recurring lockdowns. It's already been done by several countries, who are essentially fully open domestically.

It's not going to happen - it was only ever a realistic option if vaccines looked like they wouldn't work and lockdowns would drag on for years. If that had been the case, public opinion might have shifted.

The 90%+ effectiveness of the first-gen vaccines is a game-changer, no-one expected them to be so good. It's all about scaling up manufacturing now as quickly as possible.

Fodla

KyussB wrote: »

The vaccines aren't silver bullets - we still need to do that along with the vaccines, helping us get there. Not knowing the long term effects of vaccines, includes not knowing how long they last (at least some we know don't give much more immunity than getting the virus itself) - nor how long they will be effective to newly developing strains.

You do one proper lockdown all-island, getting us to Zero - then the whole domestic economy is able to open up again, since all external travel gets quarantined. Saves lives, saves the economy - gets us out of recurring lockdowns. It's already been done by several countries, who are essentially fully open domestically.

How long will it take?

KyussB

ddarcy wrote: »

Since you’re full of crap with this statement I’ll let you cite where you get that. These links might help (btw the process is less than a year). You’re right that it is well established though. Not expecting a reply though.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/vaccine-selection.htm

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/fdas-critical-role-ensuring-supply-influenza-vaccine

Nothing you linked disagrees with me. Read their "how it's made" article.

KyussB

hmmm wrote: »

It's not going to happen - it was only ever a realistic option if vaccines looked like they wouldn't work and lockdowns would drag on for years. If that had been the case, public opinion might have shifted.

The 90%+ effectiveness of the first-gen vaccines is a game-changer, no-one expected them to be so good. It's all about scaling up manufacturing now as quickly as possible.

It's 90% effective for how long? For some of the vaccines, for about 8 months - for many of the others, they haven't been around long enough to know. Can people still carry and pass on the virus with some vaccines? Do repeated vaccinations have diminishing returns? etc. etc..

We just don't know enough about the long-term characteristics of the vaccines. Especially whether they have negative long-term effects.

It's great to have them, but lets not fool ourselves into thinking it's a silver bullet - it's only a component in a bigger plan, which must at some stage require a lockdown-to-Zero - unless we want 2-3 more years of this, even with vaccines in development.

KyussB

Fodla wrote: »

How long will it take?

For knowing vaccines characteristics well enough? A year of having hundreds of thousands of recipients probably.

For an all-island hard-lockdown-to-Zero to work? 2 months probably, given where we're at - then if we aren't fuckups that just allow inward foreign travel unquarantined, we can open up the domestic economy permanently - and people going off on holiday would be one of the main vaccine takers, along with key workers (which is a lot more realistic than the 'silver bullet' scenarios everyone is hyper-optimistically dreaming of).

grogi

KyussB wrote: »

It's 90% effective for how long? For some of the vaccines, for about 8 months - for many of the others, they haven't been around long enough to know. Can people still carry and pass on the virus with some vaccines? Do repeated vaccinations have diminishing returns? etc. etc..

We just don't know enough about the long-term characteristics of the vaccines. Especially whether they have negative long-term effects.

It's great to have them, but lets not fool ourselves into thinking it's a silver bullet - it's only a component in a bigger plan, which must at some stage require a lockdown-to-Zero - unless we want 2-3 more years of this, even with vaccines in development.

We won't have lockdown to zero. Look at the pushback at the mere suggestion that pubs should stay closed (they should IMHO - research shows that pubs and restaurants are hotspots).

Lockdowns however are not supposed to eradicate the virus. They are to flatten the curve, so that the ICU are not overloaded (it annoys me that very little was done to actually increase capacity there, but that's a different story).

Hopes of eradication of the virus from the surface of the planet are nothing but fairy tails. The virus is here to stay. Mass vaccination will allow to quickly build enough immunity that it won't kill as many as it does right now. That will happen even without vaccine (as we can see in Lombardy this winter), but the process would be much slower.

KyussB

grogi wrote: »

We won't have lockdown to zero. Look at the pushback at the mere suggestion that pubs should stay closed (they should IMHO - research shows that pubs and restaurants are hotspots).

Lockdowns however are not supposed to eradicate the virus. They are to flatten the curve, so that the ICU are not overloaded (it annoys me that very little was done to actually increase capacity there, but that's a different story).

Hopes of eradication of the virus from the surface of the planet are nothing but fairy tails. The virus is here to stay. Mass vaccination will allow to quickly build enough immunity that it won't kill as many as it does right now. That will happen even without vaccine (as we can see in Lombardy this winter), but the process would be much slower.

If the country know we are fully-open domestically ~2 months after a hard-lockdown-to-Zero, of course we'll have one if it is undertaken. People are against rolling lockdowns, not a proper lockdown that will open us up again after.

It's already been done by several countries - it's the proven method of ending the coronavirus, domestically.

polesheep

pinkyeye wrote: »

I will definitely be first in the queue with the sleeve up for this vaccine as I work in a Nursing Home who so far have managed to stop Covid getting in. I've spoken to some colleagues who say they will refuse and I believe they should be excluded from work if they refuse.

Yes there's a risk of side effects as there is with any medication or vaccine but there's a risk when you get in the car in the morning to go to work also. You could die in a car accident as a result of getting to work but you take that risk to have a normal life.

But if the home has managed to keep Covid out, where's the issue.

grogi

KyussB wrote: »

If the country know we are fully-open domestically ~2 months after a hard-lockdown-to-Zero, of course we'll have one if it is undertaken. People are against rolling lockdowns, not a proper lockdown that will open us up again after.

It's already been done by several countries - it's the proven method of ending the coronavirus, domestically.

And then what? Are you going to mass quarantine all visitors forever? Because that's the only way to keep it at zero. Virus will not be erradicated from the planet and there always will be risk of someone bringing it to your perfect zero-virus-zone.

Plumbthedepths

The biggest problem for the wet dream that is 'Zero Covid' is spelt out in the following initials D.U.P. and of course they're loyal supporters.

KyussB

grogi wrote: »

And then what? Are you going to mass quarantine all visitors forever? Because that's the only way to keep it at zero. Virus will not be erradicated from the planet and there always will be risk of someone bringing it to your perfect zero-virus-zone.

There Is No Alternative. Quarantine and vaccination passports are the only way, unless you want several years more of recurring national lockdowns - which the current vaccines are not going to prevent.

Eventually - and I would not expect this with the first batch of vaccines - one of the in development vaccines may provide the right mix of long lasting immunity, non-transmissibility, and little-to-no side effects or long term effects - and be around long enough to prove all of this - then (several years from now) we could get rid of the foreign travel restrictions (and permanently keep the infrastructure for dealing with whatever future pandemic may arise).

plodder

Zero covid was never going to happen and with excellent vaccines on the way, it's even less likely now. The big unknown which could end up prolonging things is whether enough people will take the vaccines.

Deep Thought

Hector Savage wrote: »

Stop!

This started development in February.

Kind of ..it’s based on already known vaccine that is modified.

The virus is relatively easy to kill.. ( just wash your hands and see), but we need to make sure we don’t kill you as well.

Technology in pharma is huge. I have put in a new system that makes testing so much quicker but even more compliant

grogi

Deep Thought wrote: »

Kind of ..it’s based on already known vaccine that is modified.

The virus is relatively easy to kill.. ( just wash your hands and see), but we need to make sure we don’t kill you as well.

Technology in pharma is huge. I have put in a new system that makes testing so much quicker but even more compliant

Whaaaat ?!

pinkyeye

polesheep wrote: »

But if the home has managed to keep Covid out, where's the issue.

They have managed to keep it out so far, it could come in any day.

FFVII

plodder wrote: »

Zero covid was never going to happen and with excellent vaccines on the way, it's even less likely now. The big unknown which could end up prolonging things is whether enough people will take the vaccines.

Pfizer and Co's RNA one is the only one that can be changed relatively quickly to combat other strains of Rona. Theirs at least 3 strains and afaik their vaccine is for the original strain so out in the wild it's not going to be that affective one would imagine. If you get this vaccine you are apparently gonna be told that you are part of the trial essentially as it's long term affects are unknown.


I wouldn't be getting this one.


AstraZen person was on RTE news one of the evenings talking about their vaccine. I thought to myself listening to her that what she was saying made no sense. It turned out the next day she was talking out of her arse. I didn't look at the specifics.


Less than 100 people have died as a result of a direct connection to covid now apparently in ireland. I see a number going around. Id well believe it now at this stage.

JacksonHeightsOwn

FFVII wrote: »

Pfizer and Co's RNA one is the only one that can be changed relatively quickly to combat other strains of Rona. Theirs at least 3 strains and afaik their vaccine is for the original strain so out in the wild it's not going to be that affective one would imagine. If you get this vaccine you are apparently gonna be told that you are part of the trial essentially as it's long term affects are unknown.


I wouldn't be getting this one.


AstraZen person was on RTE news one of the evenings talking about their vaccine. I thought to myself listening to her that what she was saying made no sense. It turned out the next day she was talking out of her arse. I didn't look at the specifics.


Less than 100 people have died as a result of a direct connection to covid now apparently in ireland. I see a number going around. Id well believe it now at this stage.

Less than 100 people have died as a direct result of covid........

You're either an idiot, or an absolute wind up merchant..... Which one is it?

How can't you realise that the issue is his this virus is clogging up the health system. Whether the people die or not, a fair amount still require hospital treatment, so that's a bed, that's nursing staff, doctors etc....... Now throw in the amount of those resources that then get infected and either A) can't work for for fear of infecting someone more vulnerable, or they also need to take up a valuable hospital bed, and the resources that go with it.

What exactly is hard to understand about that???

zerosugarbuzz

chrisbonnie wrote: »

Less than 100 people have died as a direct result of covid........

You're either an idiot, or an absolute wind up merchant..... Which one is it?

How can't you realise that the issue is his this virus is clogging up the health system. Whether the people die or not, a fair amount still require hospital treatment, so that's a bed, that's nursing staff, doctors etc....... Now throw in the amount of those resources that then get infected and either A) can't work for for fear of infecting someone more vulnerable, or they also need to take up a valuable hospital bed, and the resources that go with it.

What exactly is hard to understand about that???

There is actually more free beds in hospitals currently than there has been in November for many years.

touts

touts wrote: »

Absolutely. Sign me up.

But if you don't want to take it fine. It's just there should be ongoing Level 5 lockdown for anyone who doesn't take it until we are 6 months without a case. No pubs, restaurants etc. Only essential shopping. Masks in public areas. No overseas travel. In fact no travel outside your county. No access to sporting facilities (either as a spectator or a participant). No Cinemas, Theaters etc. No access to public transportation.

Level 0 for the rest of us.

If you don't believe in science you don't get to experience th benefits of a lifestyle whose foundation is science.

Jesus christ, should we wear a badge or label to identify ourselves as not taken the vaccine, or maybe herded into compounds and left out under armed guard.

JacksonHeightsOwn

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

There is actually more free beds in hospitals currently than there has been in November for many years.

OK, so you have a 6 bed ward, currently 5 have covid and one bed is free. You go in with a broken leg, do you think you're going into the ward with them?

It's not rocket science is it

is_that_so

chrisbonnie wrote: »

OK, so you have a 6 bed ward, currently 5 have covid and one bed is free. You go in with a broken leg, do you think you're going into the ward with them?

It's not rocket science is it

Why would you send someone into a COVID ward unless they have COVID? The impression given is that the health system is currently divided into COVID and non-COVID sectors and that the free bed numbers are in non-COVID.

johnire

Yes.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Jesus christ, should we wear a badge or label to identify ourselves as not taken the vaccine, or maybe herded into compounds and left out under armed guard.