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Irish businessman stopped from leaving China.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    I think a government with even the slightest hint of what used to be called balls would have got him home a lot sooner , it’s an embarrassment.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Such an interesting case. I wonder who will pay the 90k a month? I noticed a name mentioned among Richard's thank you's.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,948 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Just listened to Senator Michael McDowell SC on morning Ireland and he's not at all happy with the back slapping Narrative. He's livid over the Governments and in particular DOFA handling of this case. He's been involved in this from the outset and is clearly appalled and does not agree in the slightest that it was a Job well done.

    He laid out the facts including the point it was infact a Chinese business who is entirely at fault re the fraud and essentially says this was a case of extortion perpetrated by the Chinese government and an Irish citizens human rights were trampled on.

    He continued, there was no need for "Quite Diplomacy", Ireland alone may not have had the power to exert pressure but he rightly points out The EU could have been brought in and more alarming, Ireland recently gained a seat on the security Council.

    Obviously we may never know the full account of the protracted attempts to release Mr O Halloran, but I for one have to wonder how its taken so long for an entirely innocent Irish citizen to be released and I'm not buying this narrative that the DOFA did all they could to expedite matters, it Would seem to me they were only anxious about upsetting the Chinese government and its disgraceful.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,260 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    "Obviously we may never know the full account of the protracted attempts to release Mr O Halloran, but I for one have to wonder how its taken so long for an entirely innocent Irish citizen to be released and I'm not buying this narrative that the DOFA did all they could to expedite matters, it Would seem to me they were only anxious about upsetting the Chinese government and its disgraceful."

    Innocence is irrelevant to the Chinese and you don't need to be a Senior Council to know possession is everything. The Chinese had possession and pissing them off or putting them in a position where they will lose face by releasing him doesn't appear to me to be a good tactic.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,948 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    And you make a fair point , but it would seem to me that despite the Back Slapping Narrative, the DOFA were extremely lax to say the least .This was not a criminal matter, Spying case etc, this was a Private business deal that went Tits up. It seems to me it was abundantly clear what the Chinese government was up too (Extortion) and its equally clear our Government could have but didn't engage the UN or the EU in pressuring the Chinese to resolve this.

    I personally found it Galling, Simon Coveney essentially thanking the Chinese government for dancing on an Irish citizens human rights and even more outrageous, the Chinese will continue to be in receipt of payment's by way of Extortion.

    Coveney didn't need to thank the Chinese at all

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    "Coveney didn't need to thank the Chinese at all"

    He certainly didn't have to. However if in six months time some other Irish citizen is in a similar situation regarding an exit visa from China the fact that he did could help resolve the matter more quickly. Real politics.

    It's about people with responsibility, like Coveney, doing the responsible thing. It's easy for someone like M. McD to criticize when they're not the ones who will have to deal with consequences down the line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    As I understand it, the income the plane is earning will now be used to refund the Chinese citizens who were ripped off.

    Fair dues to the Chinese for looking after their people, and this will make others think twice before trying it on with them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Richard O'Halloran had nothing to do with the fraud and was not under investigation for any crime or malfeasance in China or elsewhere.

    Why you're cheerleading having an innocent man robbed of three years of his life is beyond me. And, in a backhanded manner, trying to implicate his name in a fraud he had nothing to do with.

    The man deserves better and you need to do better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    As an aside, in early 2021, there was a leak from a Chinese server revealing a Public Security Bureau Shanghai airport watchlist of thousands of innocent foreign nationals, including children of main passengers.

    The profile of these individuals were typically business or public officials who had significant interactions with China.

    One of the articles (I can't find it after a quick search) had a about 30 or so Irish people on the list.

    I don't think anyone here would like to be on that list, knowingly or unknowingly given what happened to O'Halloran.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,509 ✭✭✭Red Silurian



    I agree it is good that the Chinese looked after their own people, however the way in which they did it was atrocious, an innocent mans freedom should never have been used as a bargaining chip in this case.

    My understanding is China Aviation Leasing Services Ireland are to pay whatever fees they quite rightly owe to their investors



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    Don't you tell me what I need to do!...a quick read through your posts shows clearly what your agenda is,and its not driven by any moral values.

    The bottom line is the company this guy is a director of fraudulently sold a plane, the buyers never got that plane...and that plane has apparently since been making an income for the company that sold it.

    While the people who bought it were getting nothing zilch dada!!



  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why couldn't they have done this three years ago?

    There is a element of reputation management here.

    Ireland presumably doesn't want to be seen as somewhere you invest illegally raised funds and not have to refund the investors, and then have the gov decrying the Chinese government for their actions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,509 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    2 reasons why it wasn't done 3 years ago, one is the legal systems in china move very slowly and the other is the chinese don't care about their international reputation



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,260 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    there was criminality involved. there was massive fraud involved. not that I'm saying O'Halloran was involved in the fraud but he was an officer of the company.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,948 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    He was infact a New officer and wasn't even employed by the company when this fraud occurred, which in fact had nothing to do with the Irish Leasing company, whilst not fully aware of all the facts, my impression was he was sent over to actually help Chinese investors caught up in the fraud . Again, entirely innocent and this must have been pretty clear from the outset 🤔

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,260 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    a distinction that isn't relevant to the chinese. their citizens were defrauded. they acted to ensure they were compensated. I don't agree with how they acted but that was their motivation. One question though, why didn't he sign that deal 3 years ago? what was stopping him?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,948 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I doubt very much it was within his gift to sign any agreement, then or now

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,260 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users Posts: 26,948 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I've no idea, the man was clearly a pawn in all of this but some curious Names were mentioned over the weekend as being "Very Helpful" so to speak

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,509 ✭✭✭Red Silurian




  • Registered Users Posts: 26,948 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Some amount of sex was had I'd say!

    Over the weekend I mean.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭skimpydoo




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,509 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    That is a curious name, who names their child Dob?



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,948 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Initials, so to speak 😏, a name one must careful not to mention , very litigious, so to speak .

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,124 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    Lucky there's no corruption or strokes ever pulled in our country, not like in China



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Bit weird they asked for privacy and are not doing interviews. Late late show soon no doubt.

    I find something off about them tbh.

    His wife even updated her header in twitter to say she's the wife of Richard who..blah blah kept in China who's now now back home.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In fairness, he's been through a trauma so he might wait a month or two. He did an interview on rte btw and he sounded pretty wrecked from it all.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Per Chinese culture he would have been seen to be involved. Corruption is institutionalised in China, so replacing another person in the company, wouldn't make him innocent of the details involved. He would be seen as taking on the duties and responsibilities (and blame) of the person he replaced. That's why they didn't let him go, in addition to the consideration that they wouldn't have anyone to hold responsible if he was released.

    I don't. The Chinese don't respond well to confrontational tactics. It's never worked out all that well for the US when trying to push the Chinese government on issues related to their justice system, and the US has a lot more bargaining power than Ireland has.

    TBH I think the Irish govt were superb. They succeeded in bringing the guy home. Quite honestly, I fully expected to see him disappear into a labour camp, and not be seen again for a decade or two.



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