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Irish businessman stopped from leaving China.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    It's been a while since I last heard about this case, can't find any update in the news other than a Seanad debate was meant to happen earlier this month (delayed by 2 weeks from the 15th of February) unless his release was secured in the mean time... Am I to take that as a positive?


  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I imagine if there were any change it would have been published.
    kona wrote: »
    There is certainly something else going on that isnt being made public, a horrendous situation to be caught in. Id assume it would cause other people in the industry to become fairly wary of any similar trips to beijing on "business". Hopefully its sorted out asap, no job/money/airplane is worth that ****e.
    What do you think is being hidden?
    A Chinese entrepreneur raised funds seemingly illegally and used them to part fund the purchase an aircraft.
    The Chinese state wants either the funds or the plane to return the funds to the investors.
    Irish guy who became a director of the company that received the illegally raised funds is being stopped from leaving until the money is returned.

    It sucks but he is stuck. He can't return the (mortgaged) plane. He can't return the funds. Why would China release him without getting the money back?
    Political goodwill?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I imagine if there were any change it would have been published.

    There was meant to be a senate debate 2 weeks on from the 15th of February, did that happen?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/seanad-debate-on-irishman-detained-in-china-postponed-as-talks-at-delicate-stage-1.4485731%3fmode=amp


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Why would China release him without getting the money back?
    Political goodwill?

    What benefit does China get by barring him from exiting the country?


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,240 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    What benefit does China get by barring him from exiting the country?

    what benefit do they get from letting him go?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    what benefit do they get from letting him go?

    Less of a strain on the Chinese public food distribution and health systems, more willingness from international companies to do deals with China and less international pressure - especially if he dies over there, could you imagine the uproar?

    Likewise I can't think of a single benefit to keeping the exit ban on him


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,240 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Less of a strain on the Chinese public food distribution and health systems, more willingness from international companies to do deals with China and less international pressure - especially if he dies over there, could you imagine the uproar?

    Likewise I can't think of a single benefit to keeping the exit ban on him

    if they let him go there is no chance of any of the money being recovered. and as for international pressure, what international pressure?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,986 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Less of a strain on the Chinese public food distribution and health systems, more willingness from international companies to do deals with China and less international pressure - especially if he dies over there, could you imagine the uproar?

    Likewise I can't think of a single benefit to keeping the exit ban on him


    No, I can't imagine the uproar. Creepy globalist, Simon Coveney had a debate on the issue postponed because he didn't want to embarrass China during trade talks with the EU by supporting an Irish citizen's rights (and that disgrace want's to be your taoiseach?). That should tell you everthing you need to know about our government's willingness to stand up for it's people.


    You've no idea how corrupt China is, I assume some CCP apparatchik lost some money in the deal and now he wan't his money back, and in that regard there is no law that matters. Wee little Ireland and it's 'outrage' doesn't ammount to a hill of beans as far as China is concerned, you'll buy their crap and like it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    We know some investors got involved through crowd funding. It was alleged that they lost money through fraud because the fund raising was illegal? How do we know there was fraud? Against the law or outside the law?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Shocking stuff. This is still going, no sign of them letting him go and everybody afraid to say boo to the Chinese.


    Cathal Berry seems to be trying to help the family.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/BerryCathal/status/1483708057486045185?cxt=HHwWgsC5zcCnmJcpAAAA



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  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    How do we know there was fraud?

    The company chairman has been convicted of fraud and is in prison.

    The government should request he be allowed leave China, on compassionate grounds, as it seems no closer to a resolution.

    I'm not sure what else we can do?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    I don't think their courts are transparent or reliable, so Id have concerns about the courts findings.



  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You'll have to explain to me what that flag means and how it relates to this case?

    What do you propose we say to China?

    Let this man leave the country because...?



  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Already on a flight out according to RTE



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Must be an unbelievable relief for him and his family.

    Should never have happened and although Coveney thanked the Chinese embassy, I think severe reputational damage has been done to China in Ireland from this sad affair.

    Post edited by Yurt2 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    While I agree with your view the damage has been done to chinas reputation here they will give zero fecks,my fear with the sudden release is we paid the Chinese a fee to release him



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    "severe reputational damage has been done to China in Ireland from this sad affair"


    LOL dude, how important do you think we are? They will not gaf.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    They care quite a deal actually. China is one of those countries that bristle greatly when they feel they are affronted or maligned. Their soft power offensive, while completely clunky and clueless, is a big preoccupation of the Chinese Communist Party.

    I think the scales have fallen from the eyes of a lot of the political and business class in Ireland with regard to China from this case. There would scarcely be a mention of China in the Oireachtas bar trade matters, now deputies openly talk about Xinjiang and human rights matters.

    They don't like that one bit. See the Chinese embassy's Twitter page. Resplendant with unvarnished nationalistic nonsense, and they want a receptive home for that message.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,242 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Great news he is coming home. Delighted for his family.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    Credit is due to the Dept of Foreign Affairs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I suppose it is. And it probably weighed greatly on Coveney and other senior diplomats.

    A read of the media would conclude that they kept the family in the dark for long periods, which probably heightened the anxiety and stress. But, we have to conclude there were good reasons for that as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 54,831 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Absolutely delighted for this man and his family!



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Pretty off-colour message on Twitter from the Chinese Embassy in Dublin. Sounds like they let him go with gritted teeth.

    https://twitter.com/ChinaEmbIreland/status/1487070986876989449/photo/1

    "It is expected that he continues to fulfill his pledges and commitment and undertake his corresponding legal obligations"

    What a sh*tty message. Glad the man is firmly out of Chinese airspace. He owes China or its politically tainted legal system nothing. 3 years of his life stolen when he was accused of no crime.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    Nobody seems prepared to give out the fine details of the case so we can make a balanced judgement on why he was being held.

    Nothing but emotional drama queens prancing about led of course by the likes of RTE.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Well aren't you a ray of sunshine?

    The ins and outs of the circumstances are all more or less public domain. The Sunday Business Post and Times (Sunday edition) covered the technicalities at length.

    The long and the short of it was he was blocked from leaving China without being accused or charged with any crime. He was tangental to the commercial dispute and served as a hostage.

    The subtext: Chinese courts are beholden to party whims, and after a series stock market scandals, as a populist move the party ordered courts to crack down on stock market and financial scams that particularly affected ordinary retail investors however they have to do it to achieve results. O'Halloran had no hand or part in how this company fundraised and the illegal activities of the Chinese owner. He was however a convenient bargaining chip.

    This behavior is relatively common in China. Foreign nationals hit with exit bans in commercial disputes. We should thank our stars we have an independent judiciary because this case is a small taste of what a politically controlled legal system does.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    The Chinese judicial system is irrelevant in this particular case.

    Facts of the matter are that in a lot of countries it's easy to enter but leaving can be subject to all kinds of business and/or political interference.

    We still have to maintain relations with these countries which is why Coveney was right to thank the Chinese authorities. One never knows when a similar case will arise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    yes correct, in some countries being held hostage is a very high risk, and china is one of those countries where that risk exists and is very high.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22



    Not interested in your twisted version.

    People were ripped off by the company O'Halloran was involved with.

    He seems to accept a responsibility and so did the Irish government..thats how they reached an agreement to pay back the money and O'Halloran was free to leave.

    O'Halloran wasn't some innocent nobody grabbed off the street in Shanghai as you and your kind would have us believe!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    EDIT:

    Not bothered actually. The man is home with his family and far away from the nightmare visited on him. Something to be thankful for.

    No point in engaging with posters who think otherwise.



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